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nugenx

Bots in Skirmish

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Ok, so I'm brand new to this game, so forgive me if im wrong but shouldn't skirmish / multiplayer practice have bots to fight? I mean that's kind of an inherant component of skirmish mode....

 

I'm at a total loss, all the servers are completely empty and there's nothing to do in skirmish mode....so.....what gives?

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People tend to play early in the evenings and on weekends. Most of the playerbase is in Europe so it can be hard to find a good sized game. But in the afternoon on EST on a saturday or sunday theres always a quite a few players ingame.

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If memory serves me correctly, there should be a version of CamosCanyon with bots for specifically this purpose... However I do think there should be a few more bot maps, probably KotG or RidgeWar.

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I'm not a big fan of AI in W3D. For consistency and lowering expectations, the AI version of Camos Canyon should probably be renamed to Multiplayer Practice, which makes sense, and removes the assumption that more maps feature AI gameplay.

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Maybe it can be changed so Camos Canyon Bots is the default map when you click Multiplayer Practice?

 

I'm assuming at this point, that the default game menu is being phased out in favor of the launcher. So I wouldn't tie any functionality to something which might become obsolete and removed.

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Maybe it can be changed so Camos Canyon Bots is the default map when you click Multiplayer Practice?

 

I'm assuming at this point, that the default game menu is being phased out in favor of the launcher. So I wouldn't tie any functionality to something which might become obsolete and removed.

 

It would be pretty sad if the in-game launcher, itself modelled on the RA1 menu, was ever removed. IMO it's an important part of the Red Alert nostalgia and is also needed as an alternate way for people to access the game.

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In the current version, no. The upcoming version will be playable with bots! Please take a look at this image.

vu7V9KG.png

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@Pushwall Perhaps its time to consider just fully supporting AI in maps (all but HostileWaters I guess, I have no idea how the AI would be able to make sense of that, perhaps @moonsense715 has some ideas?). At this point I mainly see benefits to it. The negatives might be worked out as Moonsense improves the AI.

Even just 6 bots per team will improve the flow for skirmish exploration and might help populate the server a bit more easily since you actually have something to shoot at. Ideally we'd drop the bots out as matches begin to populate with players, but again, at this point I'd rather just have 6 bots per team permanently than none at all.

I also like how my 2016 posts in the topic are really not that true anymore, the AI IS better now. Far from perfect, but no longer purely idiotic. 

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My apologies for reviving this thread.

However, I'm lost regarding AI bots in APB, too. Is there some sort of special command to add them during a local game? Or is this something server-exclusive? And which maps currently support bots?

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3 hours ago, FekLeyrTarg said:

My apologies for reviving this thread.

However, I'm lost regarding AI bots in APB, too. Is there some sort of special command to add them during a local game? Or is this something server-exclusive? And which maps currently support bots?

Press F8 to open the console, type 

botcount 20

or whatever number you feel appropriate, and press enter. You'll get bots equal to that number minus the number of human players that are ingame, so in a local game with only yourself, this would give 19 bots, 9 on your team and 10 on the enemy. They'll all start with whatever you set the starting credits to (and gain money from silos/trucks the same way you do), so if it's enough to buy vehicles right away you'll end up with the war factories getting clogged very quickly. Disabling friendly fire is also recommended as bots have no trigger discipline and won't stop shooting if a friend happens to get in their way, which will happen often, given the paths they tend to follow.

There's a hard limit of 300 bots, but you don't want to go that high because war factories will get unusably jammed with empty vehicles and vehicle requests, bots may end up spawning in the middle of the map inside each other creating a totem pole of death if all the building spawn points are occupied, and your framerate will be a slideshow. There's only 47 different names set up for the bots, and I'd say that's as high as you should ever go, and even then the game can get pretty choppy.

Bots are currently supported on the following maps:

  • Camos Canyon
  • Complex
  • Guard Duty (though they have trouble getting in/out of the airfield)
  • Metro (though they don't buy vehicles or take out the hedgehogs)
  • Pipeline (though they don't pay attention to the oil mechanic)
  • River Raid
  • Rock Trap
  • Wasteland

Sometime in the near future they may end up being supported on more land maps, but air/naval maps are out of the question (unless we're fine with more Metro situations where the bots ignore most of the units they could buy) and will probably remain so for a long time.

This console command only works in a local game, enabling bots on the server requires the intervention of a moderator/administrator.

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Thank you very much for the info.
I've just played a few games with bots and it has been a lot of fun.
My verdict: This is the bot AI how it should've been in Renegade from the very beginning.
I'm looking forward to more maps an standalone mods supporting bots (perhabs even vanilla Renegade itself one day). :)

And perhabs Metro situations with air and naval maps wouldn't be a bad thing until a better solution can be found. The human players may have an unfair advantage but at least these maps are playable with bots.

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After giving the pros and cons a lot of thought, it is better to have the bots for the sake of new players.

Reasoning: (skip if logic bores you)

New Players are used to different engines than W3D (or at least different control environments). The APB dev team have gone a long way to help the game be more user/new player friendly. Yet nothing can help a player gain skill/adapt to a game faster than aiming at a moving target and even more so a target that shoots back. Thus players online are important. But a good portion of server players currently have a high skill level, which to someone just learning a game can be frustrating. Some new players are not ready to be seemingly insta-gibbed  (translation killed almost instantly with a few rounds of ammo) repeatedly while being taunted. And phrases such as get-good don’t work if there are no moving targets to practice on. —Enter AI bots, they can be predictable but tough moving targets. Depending on the difficulty setting/programming they can allow new players the practice to “get-good” and better learn the controls to the game. If a bot kills you it won’t taunt you, and most people won’t take it personally that an AI bot killed them. Sure bots can be frustrating to kill, but the player will have same bots on their team, which negates some of the frustration. With AI bots there are no “stacked” teams. Also as an added bonus the AI team players will in turn help new players learn support roles. (Let’s face it a lot of games recently released, lack team support/sharing mechanics. Excluding reviving teammate mechanics). Also I know players who start a new game typically would like to learn the controls in a non-online/competitive environment with moving target to shoot at. And what better opportunity is there than a bot map? 

Conclusion: I hope bots will help new players learn and adapt to the controls and physics of APB. I also hope bots will help close the skill gap between new comers and old veterans. I hope bots will give the necessary catalyst to raising the player count for APB. (And who knows maybe they’ll be loved enough to get a home server side?)

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