Balance Phase Tank radar signature

[des1206]

Is there anyway we can make the PT have no radar signature when it is standing still? This will help the PT better ambush passing Soviet armor instead of having to make a big loop around them first like all other units. This will also address smaller maps where PTs have no room to navigate behind attacking Soviet forces without being seen. Gameplay will be a bit more exciting too as you sit and wait for your "prey" to passby before unleashing your missiles. 

 

A potential imbalance I would see is when players in PT "crawl" into Soviet bases without defenses stealthily. Or just that PTs will be too difficult for Soviets to counter in the field. Would that be too OP?

Edited November 29, 2016 by des1206

[MPRA2]

Honestly, I don't like it that the Phase Tank is radar visible, but it slightly balances the game a bit more.... First, if you're smart, you'll know exactly where the phase is if you keep tabs on your radar so taking it out shouldn't be a problem, I don't believe they can APC either since its a 1 man vehicle. On the other hand, Phases are pretty much the "stank destroyers", They do high damage to vehicles, and are exceptionally deadly in hunting pairs, they also have that special stealth script that makes them even more difficult to see even when up close to someone, of course they are stealthed, which also makes them a little harder to hit with tank cannons or 1 shot weapons, but you can draw them out by hosing an area with Hind/AK-47/PKP fire to reveal their general location, so your tanks or shockies can come in and mop them up. Personally I think the Phase right now, is just a tad underpowered, but thats just because the role of the original "Phase Transport" was completely revamped to be an Anti-Tank/Ambush Support vehicle. In all Honesty, I want to try putting the Phase back where it once was, as a support transport. remove its rapid fire Missile pod and give it the classic 2 pod Missile rack, but allow it to shoot FRAG Missiles, which cannot lock on to anything, but is good against light infantry and light vehicles like the Supply Truck, and HESH Lock-On Rockets, which are effective against buildings and heavier vehicles like Heavy Tanks and Mammoth Tanks. Enable the Phase to carry 1 or 2 passengers, remove the new stealth script, so it'll be a lot easier to see up close, then re-enable the radar invisible attribute it previously had.

The Phase will be able to carry 1 or 2 soldiers behind enemy lines and support them during attacks, they will have a smaller ammo capacity (2 rockets per volley) but will still do the same damage as it did before, as well as have a halved reload cycle. It'll be easier to see when its near enemy soldiers/vehicles, but it wont be visible on radar.

just a few thoughts....

Edited December 2, 2016 by MPRA2

[Nodlied]

There is a very good reason as to why I'm going to say no to a stealth transport.

[Pushwall]

While we're looking for ways to make the APC's transport ability more relevant, let's let the phase tank do it too. 

 

"Standing still" is a dubious term for vehicles; it can be hard to bring a vehicle to a complete standstill (though easier for tracked ones) and if you have the FPS/velocity display enabled you may have noticed that even if you have managed to get a vehicle to stop completely, if it's on a slope it still reports as moving at something like 0.08m/s.

 

Something that could be done is something similar to how the Engineer's mine detection works; give infantry a script that makes it so if they're within a certain distance of a Phase Tank, the Phase Tank gets a radar marker temporarily attached to it. Since Volkov is part machine, maybe not being so easily fooled by tricks of the light could be another niche for him, creating an unusual dynamic where he's good at sniffing out phases but is also the easiest infantry for phases to kill due to tracking. Or alternatively, it could be a thing for the Shock Trooper for similar reasons to why the Tesla Tank jams radar?

[des1206]

While we're looking for ways to make the APC's transport ability more relevant, let's let the phase tank do it too. 

 

"Standing still" is a dubious term for vehicles; it can be hard to bring a vehicle to a complete standstill (though easier for tracked ones) and if you have the FPS/velocity display enabled you may have noticed that even if you have managed to get a vehicle to stop completely, if it's on a slope it still reports as moving at something like 0.08m/s.

 

Something that could be done is something similar to how the Engineer's mine detection works; give infantry a script that makes it so if they're within a certain distance of a Phase Tank, the Phase Tank gets a radar marker temporarily attached to it. Since Volkov is part machine, maybe not being so easily fooled by tricks of the light could be another niche for him, creating an unusual dynamic where he's good at sniffing out phases but is also the easiest infantry for phases to kill due to tracking. Or alternatively, it could be a thing for the Shock Trooper for similar reasons to why the Tesla Tank jams radar?

 

Can we just do the logic where if vehicle velocity < 2m/s, PT becomes radar invisible? This will get around the vehicle still slightly moving while standing still issue. It also wont be abused because surely accelerating the PT at all will bring its speed pass the 2m/s limit.

 

Infantry idea not bad if they could be done easily. 

[MPRA2]

There is a very good reason as to why I'm going to say no to a stealth transport.

welp....... I tried.........

wasnt thinking at the time how OP a stealth transport would be, no matter how many it carried because mining still isnt a thing that happens 100% of the time.

[des1206]

 

There is a very good reason as to why I'm going to say no to a stealth transport.

welp....... I tried.........

wasnt thinking at the time how OP a stealth transport would be, no matter how many it carried because mining still isnt a thing that happens 100% of the time.

 

 

Everybody worries about Tanyas. Have you seen how good a PT+Engin combo is? Mines can't even stop that, the PT can start shooting and kill the building by the time the C4 explodes. 

[Raptor29aa]

Before any blanket changes are made.

Let's consider the ideal conditions for the current phase model:

Needs run away space

Or something hide behind

Needs isolated target

Issues that make the current phase not worth the price:

Thick trees

Rough terrain (nowhere to run away or hide)

Multiple tanks/ or ride alongs (shock trooper/volkov passenger)

-things that are still balanced-

DPS is excellent

Vehicle reverse speed - satisfactory

Time to repair with mechanic - satisfactory

Comments:

Previous version of the phase had a sniper/spy as mandatory for radar invisibility.

Current version of the phase has three most used unit combos- phase Tanya, engineer(mine detection), or the most popular phase mechanic.

The reason radar invisibility is desired, is to not have to run away so far, or need a large stalking distance. (Which could give the sniper another role; and yes I know the phase is not an IFV)

I think the script should be altered to include the sniper as necessary to radar inivisiblity. Thus not making the engineer/Tanya role too powerful. It would also keep the current mechanic + phase combo from being OP.

Also it would add diversity to the tank+Driver combo. Besides most phases I see are mechanic phase combos.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Raptor29aa

[Pushwall]

Thing is, somewhere between the scripts Beta used and the 4.0 of Gamma, stealth vehicles were made to always hide passengers on radar regardless of whether they are radar invisible or not. If you make snipers mandatory for radar invisibility in phases, you make them mandatory for radar invisibility in gaps. Any reason why we should make a "blanket change" to nerf the gap too?

 

Also "every phase driver will use a sniper, no questions asked, unless the radar is down or none of the MBT drivers are smart enough to get mechs for the phase to rely on" = diversity?

 

I myself typically get a rocket-phase if there are enough mech friends around in lights/meds/APCs, having them close by eliminates the need for having a mech myself and allows me to continue fighting if I lose my phase - and when infantry can sneak around and TTs can poke out from behind cliffs, it's hard to assure that your phase will survive every single encounter unless you don't take risks and therefore get very few chances to contribute to the game. A lot of people seem to only think about themselves leading to whole armies of mech-vehicles when they really don't need to have an infantry composition of 100% or even 50% mechs, and while sniper-phases would make it more obvious that you don't need that many mechs, it's not a requirement for that.

[Voe]

Phase + rocket is the best anti air the allies have You can ambush hinds and take them down before they can react.

 

I think the phase is powerful as it is. I don't really see the reason to make it additionally radar invisible. Keep in mind that while it was radar invisible in early Beta, it also had 100/100 hp which made it die to a single shot from a tesla tank. Completely different unit to what we have now.

[Pushwall]

Keep in mind that while it was radar invisible in early Beta, it also had 100/100 hp which made it die to a single shot from a tesla tank. Completely different unit to what we have now.

 

Not to mention it took like 8 seconds to fire its whole salvo and then another 8 seconds to reload. The current phase gets to start on a second salvo before the Beta phase would finish firing its first one.

[Voe]

Indeed.