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Killing_You

[GAME OVER] CYOR- Marvel Secret Invasion Edition

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Just now, Retaliation said:

With or without notifications, we were going to see town very quickly figure out who couldn't have done the night kill. I don't think it's even the balance of this game that caused it. We've just adapted to always having tons of town power roles, that we no longer fear outing ourselves day2.

Yeah, really, town was over sharing compared to traditional meta.  I think we just need a game to come along to put the fear of being exposed back into players.

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2 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

Without notifications we would have had

Jeod knowing cat5 visited snipe

Cat5 knowing snipe was roleblocked (and the ability)

Sunflower declaring she hexed snipe.

With or without notifications, we were going to see town very quickly figure out who couldn't have done the night kill. I don't think it's even the balance of this game that caused it. We've just adapted to always having tons of town power roles, that we no longer fear outing ourselves day2.

Don't forget FRAYDO blocked ChopBam, and ChopBam would have known someone blocked him so those two were also covered to an extent.

And then we actually targeted Irish.

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Also KY, don't be too hard on yourself too.  My game was unbalanced in the opposite direction so we're just countering each other and bringing the natural order of things back to neutral.  It's just part of the learning experience.

The nature of this game means we can do a rerun of it sometime, with completely different characters.  That might be fun. Especially as a lot of us have a lot of other ideas to work with.

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Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Also wait a second... iLTS wasn't even a watcher/tracker?!  I could have picked someone else to kill.

Or not performed a NK and hope they mislynch, since you saw how easily everyone's actions were figured out the first night. :v

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Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Also wait a second... iLTS wasn't even a watcher/tracker?!  I could have picked someone else to kill.

He was informed of who visited him. I assume he was baiting the killer to visit him when he used red alert. 

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Just now, Shade939 said:

Or not performed a NK and hope they mislynch, since you saw how easily everyone's actions were figured out the first night. :v

I was trying to make it so there were no people who could observe/confirm visits, blinding town.  At the same time I didn't want to take Cat 5 out, in hopes that he could be the mislynch D3.

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I feel like the oversharing is partially my fault due to my charts >.> But it really does help catch Scum. I might have a way to fix that for the next game I host.

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Just now, TheIrishman said:

I feel like the oversharing is partially my fault due to my charts >.> But it really does help catch Scum. I might have a way to fix that for the next game I host.

Maybe? The charts don't work if people aren't willing to divulge. 

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When cat 5 said he saw a hex, I pretty much had to fess up that it was me because I already claimed being Scarlet Witch. Normally I wouldn't do that but I was just so excited to play as her and wanted to use the cool floaty blocks pic!

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Just now, Retaliation said:

Maybe? The charts don't work if people aren't willing to divulge. 

Yeah, but either someone ends up offering up their info to fill in the chart or I specifically ask them.

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Just now, TheIrishman said:

Yeah, but either someone ends up offering up their info to fill in the chart or I specifically ask them.

TBH if I'd been more lucid I might have called you out during that fatal moment when you were asking Shade what he did.

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Just now, TheIrishman said:

Yeah, but either someone ends up offering up their info to fill in the chart or I specifically ask them.

To be fair, we only had two scum players this game, since we didn't have any TP or Neutrals to work with.

 

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Just now, Shade939 said:

To be fair, we only had two scum players this game, since we didn't have any TP or Neutrals to work with.

 

Yeah, TP or neutrals might have helped.

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36 minutes ago, Mojoman said:

I still can't believe you all thought I bussed as scum.

 

It wasn't that I thought you bussed. It was b/c I thought Shade might have asked you to kill him because the situation was so bad. And I guess I was grasping at straws a little because I didn't really think Orange would be scum with his surgery and all. Or maybe I was just feeling protective of him. :\

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2 hours ago, Jeod said:

I’d offer to host a Basics game but I have closing shifts this week. I’d need a co-mod.

I think I'm up next. But it's been quite some time since I've planned a game on the forum so I'm not exactly sure what the order is right now.

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6 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

Damn, I played really well this time, aside from killing FRAYDO, but it had solid reasoning behind it so I'm not sorry :b

HNaQxdra11-8.png

RNGesus cares not for your solid reasoning. It sees FRAYDO in a tie it nails FRAYDO. Such is my life. :)

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I wouldn't sit down from GMing after one try, KY. This wasn't a bad game. The way it played out made it look very town slanted, but it wouldn't have taken very much to turn it the other way even as it was designed. If the scum team had used the strategy that you sort of designed them to use, that would have changed things right from the get go. And town had some actions that could have caused serious damage to themselves if they had been misused.

Things I would have done differently:

My rule of thumb for actions leaving notice on the target is: Consider each character to be asleep in a house during the night, except for when they are doing actions. Would they notice something during the action? Would they notice a change after the night is over? If they wouldn't, then don't tell them.

So, for Mojoman, ChopBam, TheIrishman, and myself, I wouldn't leave a notification for their targets. Mojoman would probably not want to wake the target while carrying out the investigation. ChopBam is deliberately redirecting the action away, so the target wouldn't notice that either, even if ChopBam winds up defending the target. In the case of TheIrishman, he would leave a notification only if he prevented a nightkill, as the character would notice being attacked and then saved, but would not notice TheIrishman's presence otherwise. My "Voyeur" action doesn't get close enough to identify the person they see, so the character that was seen also doesn't notice the voyeur.

Trackers do alert the target because the target is awake and would have the chance to notice being followed. 

FRAYDO and Sunflower's roleblocks would be noticed, obviously. The rest are pretty obvious.

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That said, notifications are entirely up to the GM. Games at MU largely do not give notifications for ANYTHING. Just an acknowledgement that the action was received, and only investigative actions like cops or trackers would get a report.

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When it comes to notifications, there are certain things to consider as a GM:

  • You don't have to be consistent with other games, but you should be consistent in your own game (random notifications is not very fair to players)
  • You should consider the level of notifications have great impact for the game, so run a few scenarios before deciding whether or not certain role should get them
  • You should consider the strength of town roles as well as the "time needed" they should figure out the night actions - so if you make town roles too strong you don't want to have too many extra notifications and visa versa with mafia team
  • When not sure, try to at least follow logic (explanation why the notification should take place), flavor of the game (custom roles and/or actions) and classic mafia role setups
  • As a GM, you don't need to explain players if they get notifications or not, and you shouldn't since it can break the game meta wise
  • If you want to explain notifications, do it before the game, for everyone, so it's fair (like how much info players get on avg. scale - e.g. limited/full)

 

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GAME END POSTAlright, that took longer than expected, but I've got my lease signed and ready to go, so that's good. So, here it is, the official long game end post!

THE PLAYERSFirst, I'd like to commemorate the players that participated in this game!

Jeod as Thor Odinson!
Thor-Chris-Hemsworth.jpg


Jeod was a pretty powerful town role, since he was able to track players and was unable to be targeted by night actions. This effectively meant that he couldn't be blocked, but he couldn't be protected either. The Skrulls would've been able to kill him with Orange's passive, or if Sunflower hit him with her action. In a sense, he was able to assist town, but he was on his own as well.

OrangeP47 as Skrull Phil Coulson!
26-clark-gregg-shield.w750.h560.2x.jpg

OrangeP47 was the Skrull's early game powerhouse, and was designed to be a partially unstoppable kill. I say "partially" because he himself could be roleblocked, but he would be able to ignore ChopBam and TheIrishman's protection abilities, iLikeToSnipe's one-time night BP, and Jeod's passive. He flew under the radar for the first few days, and if he had been chosen to do the first nightkill, he could've picked pretty much whoever he wanted and taken them out.

His other ability was probably my biggest mistake this game. He could silence players, which was counter-intuitive to my original goal. He never used it for this reason, so it didn't cause as many issues as I thought.

iLikeToSnipe as Doctor Doom!
doctor_doom_7806.jpg


Doctor Doom was a role I kind of threw together last minute. iLTS wanted him to be a Governor, and I ran with that. Shade correctly guessed that he had Diplomatic Immunity (which made him lynchproof), but he could also see who visited him at night. This never got put to use, as he was blocked and then later hit with an unstoppable kill. He was going to be tough to take down, but also unable to do much apart from exercise his political power.

TheIrishMan as Elixir!
Elixir442.jpg

Our resident doctor, TheIrishMan actually helped me put this role together. He sent me a massive number of requests, few of which I actually knew anything about. So when he threw me this when Town just so happened to need a doctor, I punched it in and dialed back a bit from his initial request. I'm starting to think that the resurrection was still a bit too powerful, but it didn't break the game, at least.

Mojoman as Moon Knight!
Moon_Knight_Head.jpg

Mojoman got the cop role. Moon Knight's not really a character that I know a lot about, but I knew he had magical gadgets and conducted investigations, so I went with that. His equipment was more for emergency situations, so his decision to equip his javelin N1 seemed to me like a mistake. It ended up helping town, in the end, because he used it with laser-guided precision against scum.

Category 5 Hurricane as Sage!
Sage-xxm19.jpg

Another character I knew nothing about, Category 5 pretty much asked me to make him a "voyeur" that could copy actions, which I went with. He was going to be a character that could get more powerful over time, and thus would've been a priority target for scum. Irish, if this isn't how this character should work, I apologize. Please let me know how she would likely fit into mafia, for possible future reference.

FRAYDO as Howard the Duck! Wait, what?
Howard-the-Duck-banner.jpg

FRAYDO had a rather interesting role. He was a "Miller," which for those unfamiliar with Mafia terms, is a town role designed to be a "red herring" to throw town off. His limited roleblock with a high chance to fail, daykill, and passive ability were all designed to throw a wrench into any investigation. If Category 5 had been lynched, I think it's entirely possible that Mojoman would've investigated him, gotten a Not Town result, and the game would likely be still going.

Shade939 as Skrull Colossus!
Colossus%28ultimate%29.jpg

The other partially unstoppable kill, Shade was designed to be a late game powerhouse, as he would've shrugged off roleblocks (including ChopBam's ability) and day BP. He would've also gained Day BP, allowing him to plunge the game into MYLO/LYLO and finish the game quickly.

I'm not sure how well this role worked out, because he made a lot of mistakes. There were a lot less people he could target, so by making the nightkill, he ran the risk of failing, which he did. He then fell into Irish's obvious trap to try to take the attention away from his partner, when it would've been far better to try to put the attention on someone else. Granted, the discussion would've came back to them eventually, but that would've bought them valuable time.

Sunflower as Scarlet Witch!
scarlet-witch-powers-181506.jpg

Sunflower was essentially Town's ace in the hole, as she would've been able to remove the Skrull's unstoppable modifiers. She had to be careful, as if she hit the wrong person, she could've cause some major damage to town. 

ChopBam as Captain America!
captain-america.jpg?quality=98&strip=all

ChopBam was there to keep town in check with his day ability, which would've required some good timing on his part. Other than that, he was able to sacrifice himself to save other people, since if he protected a player targeted by a nightkill, he would've died. 

REFLECTIONI feel like mistakes were made with this game, and as such, I'm going to run this again at a later date, and then save Flashpoint for later. I'll be making the following adjustments for the next game:

-Tone down night actions
I think Retaliation was spot on when he said we've adapted to action-heavy games too well. I think that by limiting the amount of players with night actions, this can be worked around.

-Tone down notifications
I went with a "Visit = Notification" mentality this game, which honestly gave town the power it needed to win. I like Cat5's mentality, so I'll try that next time.CONCLUSIONI think this game could've been way better, but it seems that it wasn't the train wreck I initially thought it was. Thanks for playing!

Spoiler

Meanwhile, in some run down apartment, something is sharpening it's swords. Something dressed in red and black, with webbed feet and a chip on it's shoulder. As it readies it's weapons, it takes one last look at a wall; a wall covered in various pictures of an Allied Engineer, the Chosen Undead, and VIctor von Doom. He has discovered that all of these people have shared the same soul, and leaps out of his window, eager for vengeance...

Spoiler

Deadpool-the-Duck-e1477007744877.jpg

 

 

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Once again, I'll point out the only players I could have possibly tried to shift attention to were Orange and Mojoman.

It doesn't help when every other player in the game has a alibi that can be confirmed by at least one other player, which you've pointed out why that basically happened already.

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19 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Once again, I'll point out the only players I could have possibly tried to shift attention to were Orange and Mojoman.

It doesn't help when every other player in the game has a alibi that can be confirmed by at least one other player, which you've pointed out why that basically happened already.

The alibi thing does work when scum can use it to blend in, which is most effective when scum can use a role-specific action in addition to the standard night kill. In a sense it helps town by adding the corner and border pieces of a puzzle, but doesn't give town the bigger picture.

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