Games [Danubian Federation Victory] Ausgleich '37

[Shade939]

On 7/15/2018 at 6:59 AM, Nodlied said:

 the standard action tax is 1 PP.

If anything, this would seem to suggest that the cost of voting for a reform being listed at 1 PP is actually redundant.

[OrangeP47]

I think that refers to any actions our characters have, rather than the inherent game actions.

[Shade939]

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I think that refers to any actions our characters have, rather than the inherent game actions.

That could easily be the intended effect, but I wouldn't naturally consider in game actions to be exempt from a standard action tax unless it was specifically written out.

[Nodlied]

3 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

##reform economic

Counted.
 

3 hours ago, Jeod said:

##reform Economic

Counted.
 

2 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

 

##reform military

 

##voteinvestigate OrangeP47

 

##votenominate FRAYDO

All three are counted.

And, for all of you lot. Everything generally costs 1PP. I should have specified it better that investigating costs 0PP. This is due to the fact that investigating technically counts as a soft lynch (well, not really, but you know the drill...) and as constant investigating is required for the game it would be unfair if it costed PP. However, nominating people for the vault does cost 1PP. I'll update the OP to better represent this.

 

[OrangeP47]

Didn't someone else vote to investigate me? Or was that just talked about?

Regardless, that's a bit of a surprise. I would have thought nomination was free too.

I'll go ahead and vote myself for investigation, as it's probably best we get a strong reformer cleared.

##investigate OrangeP47

[OrangeP47]

And yes, part of this is just to make you do more work, Nodlied

[Shade939]

4 hours ago, Jeod said:

Time to follow through on my stance.

##reform Economic

As for today's investigation, ##investigate OrangeP47. Being a lore savant warrants the rest of us being sure of your alignment to prevent manipulation through propaganda.

Yeah, Jeod also voted to investigate Orange.

And as for the reform I'm going with myself, we're going to have to vote for a military reform at some point, so I'd assume now when everyone is still alive is a better time to bring it up rather than later. Plus it helps that everyone's willing to investigate the player who initially suggested it anyways.

##reform Military

##investigate OrangeP47

[OrangeP47]

Well to be fair, just because *I* have no ulterior motive doesn't mean someone else glomming on the military train couldn't

[Shade939]

6 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Well to be fair, just because *I* have no ulterior motive doesn't mean someone else glomming on the military train couldn't

Your lack of ulterior motives will also be determined by having you investigated though, as opposed to anyone else.

Plus it's pure speculation that an economic reform would actually be a safer reform than a military reform.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Your lack of ulterior motives will also be determined by having you investigated though, as opposed to anyone else.

Plus it's pure speculation that an economic reform would actually be a safer reform than a military reform.

It's pure speculation that a military reform would be a safer reform than an economic reform... The logic is that economic reforms would be less likely to do something to make a civil war more likely in real life.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Your lack of ulterior motives will also be determined by having you investigated though, as opposed to anyone else.

Plus it's pure speculation that an economic reform would actually be a safer reform than a military reform.

My point is, when I am cleared (and I will be cleared), that doesn't mean the other military voters are necessarily clean.  I'm actually mildly suspicious of FRAYDO for nominating himself.  I can't recall how he acts when scummy, though, and in general he's hard to read, so it's a very weak feeling, but still.

[OrangeP47]

Also, for what it's worth, I assume no matter what type of reform we pick, there will be at least one "bad" option. Bad, of course, depending on your goals, but point being, I don't think we're going to be 100% safe no matter what we do.  Indeed, D2 is going to be very telling what balance we have going on.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

My point is, when I am cleared (and I will be cleared), that doesn't mean the other military voters are necessarily clean.  I'm actually mildly suspicious of FRAYDO for nominating himself.  I can't recall how he acts when scummy, though, and in general he's hard to read, so it's a very weak feeling, but still.

I don't think we could call you "cleared" after an investigation. I don't know everything about how these types of games work, but my first instinct with having innocent, suspicious, and hostile isn't a direct correlation with town, third party, and mafia. Rather, it's a state affected by your alignment and your actions. In other words, I would think it's possible for you to be a "good guy" and suspicious or a "bad guy" and innocent. You can have bad intentions but not have done anything yet.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

I don't think we could call you "cleared" after an investigation. I don't know everything about how these types of games work, but my first instinct with having innocent, suspicious, and hostile isn't a direct correlation with town, third party, and mafia. Rather, it's a state affected by your alignment and your actions. In other words, I would think it's possible for you to be a "good guy" and suspicious or a "bad guy" and innocent. You can have bad intentions but not have done anything yet.

Granted, the N size is small, but last game like this both baddies started as Suspicious (I know because I was one, then).  Innocents were near universally good guys, whereas some good guys started suspicious.  I suppose, given items in this game and other people can use them if they get access to the lock up, a good guy could go from innocent to hostile if they like stole a gun and used it or something, but that's unlikely and a separate issue than their starting alignment.

[iLikeToSnipe]

I do think we should investigate somebody today; preferably Orange, Jeod, or myself since we tend to drive discussion in mafia games. But an investigation that looks like any target is "all clear" should not prevent us from investigating somebody again.

[OrangeP47]

Well my original next step in the logic was more that we shouldn't nominate someone we haven't vetted through investigation first.  Granted, D1 we can't do that, but D1 the risk of a false nomination is minimal so it kind of is negated anyway.

[iLikeToSnipe]

4 hours ago, Jeod said:

As for today's investigation, ##investigate OrangeP47. Being a lore savant warrants the rest of us being sure of your alignment to prevent manipulation through propaganda.

So Jeod starts out with a solid meta-game reason to investigate Orange.

45 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Didn't someone else vote to investigate me? Or was that just talked about?

Regardless, that's a bit of a surprise. I would have thought nomination was free too.

I'll go ahead and vote myself for investigation, as it's probably best we get a strong reformer cleared.

##investigate OrangeP47

Orange decides to go with the investigation because he wants to clear himself.

24 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Yeah, Jeod also voted to investigate Orange.

And as for the reform I'm going with myself, we're going to have to vote for a military reform at some point, so I'd assume now when everyone is still alive is a better time to bring it up rather than later. Plus it helps that everyone's willing to investigate the player who initially suggested it anyways.

##reform Military

##investigate OrangeP47

And Shade wants to investigate Orange for... reasons?

I'm leaning towards an Orange or Shade investigation today. There's both meta reasons (finding out more about either would be very good) and minor in-game reasons (i.e. slightly suspicious bandwagony vote).

[Retaliation]

 

3 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I'll go ahead and vote myself for investigation, as it's probably best we get a strong reformer cleared.

Are you claiming secondary objective here?

[OrangeP47]

10 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

 

Are you claiming secondary objective here?

Are you claiming you want civil war?

[Retaliation]

Point taken.

[Nodlied]

4 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

##investigate OrangeP47

Counted

 

3 hours ago, Shade939 said:

##reform Military

##investigate OrangeP47

Both counted.

 

 

Day ends in 24 hours and 3 minutes!

[OrangeP47]

@Nodlied

 

You missed Jeod voting to investigate me, before the last CVC even.

[iLikeToSnipe]

I would like to get more information on both Orange and Shade. Of those two, I think Shade has a historical impact of muddying the waters.

##investigate Shade

Since this isn't as permanent as a lynch, I think we just need to "bite the bullet" and get it out of the way. I don't have any kind of scum vibe coming off of Orange, and Shade has a permanent scummy vibe to me the way he plays.

[Shade939]

2 minutes ago, Nodlied said:

 

 

So, is stability the percentage value underneath Lead by the way?

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Shade939 said:

So, is stability the percentage value underneath Lead by the way?

I believe so.

[OrangeP47]

50% isn't bad, but you can see why I want to boost it if possible, and Nodlied did mention in one of the posts it can go both ways.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

50% isn't bad, but you can see why I want to boost it if possible, and Nodlied did mention in one of the posts it can go both ways.

I'd imagine like HoI4 and KR it can go in either direction really fast if we mess up.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

I'd imagine like HoI4 and KR it can go in either direction really fast if we mess up.

That's one blindspot in my otherwise lore master role.  I'm more familiar with the HOI2 era mechanics.

[Nodlied]

1 hour ago, OrangeP47 said:

@Nodlied

 

You missed Jeod voting to investigate me, before the last CVC even.

It has been added! Thanks for keeping an eye on things, shouldn't take long before I do these things without having to think about them again.
 

1 hour ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

##investigate Shade

Counted
 

1 hour ago, Shade939 said:

So, is stability the percentage value underneath Lead by the way?

Correct.

 

[Retaliation]

I'm going to endorse this day 1 innocent investigation, but I'm much more uncertain after looking at everyone's starting status in July Crisis mafia. There were 2 innocent players who had the potential to kill people.

##investigate OrangeP47