Games [GAME OVER] CYOR VI

[ChopBam]

2 hours ago, TheIrishman said:

Ah...alas we seem to be in similar boats. You and I may never be.

We are two piranha plants in separate pipes.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

[OrangeP47]

6 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I don't know what your problem is. Shade asking for a volunteer doesn't actually sound that threatening to me, but iLTS was scared. I don't know if Shade is just bluffing or not, but I totally approve of drawing reactions like that on D1. iLTS is scared and now I want to see why.

I see no reason to find Shade's tactic suspicious. If he was going to do something negative, I'd expect him to keep quiet about it. You can claim long-con, sure, but maybe wait for evidence of that before you start saying it.

It's not the reaction testing, it's the fishing.

[OrangeP47]

7 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

It's not the reaction testing, it's the fishing.

Or rather, let me be a bit more clear (just woke up, so appologizes if thoughts aren't the most coherent).  It's not that YOU'RE fishishing.  It's that you're being supportive of Shade fishing, which is outside of meta.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Why do you and I always have this thing early on in games where one of us completely misunderstands what the other is talking about? I haven't said anything about fishing.

I described what part of what Shade is doing that I approve of, which was the reaction testing. You're the one talking about Shade fishing and have decided that because I support Shade in general that I must have the opposite opinion as you. You don't decide what my position on that is.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Why do you and I always have this thing early on in games where one of us completely misunderstands what the other is talking about? I haven't said anything about fishing.

I described what part of what Shade is doing that I approve of, which was the reaction testing. You're the one talking about Shade fishing and have decided that because I support Shade in general that I must have the opposite opinion as you. You don't decide what my position on that is.

I mean, just because you haven't said it, doesn't mean you don't do it.  This IS mafia after all.  I mean look at the evolution of my own comments.  I originally commended Shade for actually having half a brain, then Mojo pointed out he's kinda just fishing again, and I was like oh yeah, that's bad.

The issues are inseparable.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

You're going to ask, then, what is my position on that. Well, since I currently like Shade's reaction test versus iLTS and currently think he's town as a result, I don't really care too much about fishing. I care about fishing when it's being done by someone I don't trust very much. I also frankly don't think anyone should be responding to it.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean, just because you haven't said it, doesn't mean you don't do it.  This IS mafia after all.  I mean look at the evolution of my own comments.  I originally commended Shade for actually having half a brain, then Mojo pointed out he's kinda just fishing again, and I was like oh yeah, that's bad.

The issues are inseparable.

So what, are you saying that you just didn't think it through enough the first time? 

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

You're going to ask, then, what is my position on that. Well, since I currently like Shade's reaction test versus iLTS and currently think he's town as a result, I don't really care too much about fishing. I care about fishing when it's being done by someone I don't trust very much. I also frankly don't think anyone should be responding to it.

I mean, that's fine.  Originally I wasn't going to tug these strings much but the hmms were my way of not being gotcha'd if I had to gotcha someone else later.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

So what, are you saying that you just didn't think it through enough the first time? 

Yeah, I was so shocked by Shade actually doing something half smart maybe

[OrangeP47]

Though on Shade:  As I implied before in a previous comment somewhere:  He's within his meta, so I'm not worried about him for now.  He does what he does, that doesn't make him scum, that just potentially makes him a less than optimal player at times.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I don't think a town player uses a day action in that situation. Something bad happens to them and doesn't get explained, Shade gets lynched. It totally makes sense for a Mafia/TP player to just duck out and use plausible deniability later, as that's better than getting outed and confirming a town player at the same time on Day 1.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I don't think a town player uses a day action in that situation. Something bad happens to them and doesn't get explained, Shade gets lynched. It totally makes sense for a Mafia/TP player to just duck out and use plausible deniability later, as that's better than getting outed and confirming a town player at the same time on Day 1.

Didn't ILTS do this exact same thing in a recent game, though? Was he a baddy then? (I honestly don't remember, it's been awhile)

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Though on Shade:  As I implied before in a previous comment somewhere:  He's within his meta, so I'm not worried about him for now.  He does what he does, that doesn't make him scum, that just potentially makes him a less than optimal player at times.

So if I have this straight, earlier you called it outside my meta to be supportive of Shade doing something that is within his meta.

I mean, you are kind of right, as my general opinion of Shade's play is much higher than it used to be. Still, if it doesn't bother you, I don't think it should bother you that others are also not bothered by it.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Didn't ILTS do this exact same thing in a recent game, though? Was he a baddy then? (I honestly don't remember, it's been awhile)

iLTS does have a record of Day 1 gambits as scum, yes. (Which might include today if you call him using his day action a gambit)

Do you have any recollection of Shade doing a Day 1 gambit?

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

So if I have this straight, earlier you called it outside my meta to be supportive of Shade doing something that is within his meta.

I mean, you are kind of right, as my general opinion of Shade's play is much higher than it used to be. Still, if it doesn't bother you, I don't think it should bother you that others are also not bothered by it.

It's more nuanced than that.  "Shade is being shade" does not equal "Shade is doing something good".  "Shade is being Shade" is NAI, maybe even town sided, because he *does* act differently when scum (I've been scum with him).  However, people supporting Shade when he might not be doing something good is... interesting.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

iLTS does have a record of Day 1 gambits as scum, yes. (Which might include today if you call him using his day action a gambit)

Do you have any recollection of Shade doing a Day 1 gambit?

It really depends on Shade's role probably, and how confident he is, and he's gotten more confident over time the more experience with this game he's gotten, so I'd say the likelyhood of a gambit by Shade increases with each passing game we play.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

It really depends on Shade's role probably, and how confident he is, and he's gotten more confident over time the more experience with this game he's gotten, so I'd say the likelyhood of a gambit by Shade increases with each passing game we play.

It's been a few months since our last game, (although I went back and checked and realized it was more recent than I thought) so I have a hard time imagining that someone would open up with a Day 1 scum gambit when we don't know how long we would have to wait for another game. Day 1 town gambits based on a role they designed themselves, I see that more likely. A scum gambit can lose the game really quickly if it fails. A town gambit doesn't carry as much risk.

 

[OrangeP47]

10 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

It's been a few months since our last game, (although I went back and checked and realized it was more recent than I thought) so I have a hard time imagining that someone would open up with a Day 1 scum gambit when we don't know how long we would have to wait for another game. Day 1 town gambits based on a role they designed themselves, I see that more likely. A scum gambit can lose the game really quickly if it fails. A town gambit doesn't carry as much risk.

 

I mean, if you're trying to argue to me that Shade is town, you don't need to do that to me at present time. This isn't about Shade.  It's about you.

Again, I'll reiterate my point.  There's town, and then there's town doing stupid things.  You can support town, but it's weird if you're potentially supporting town doing stupid things.  All it takes from you is to leave it at "I don't think he's really fishing" and I'd be satisfied.

Unfortunately, I do think this might be mostly a missing of the nuance.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

What exactly is Shade doing that is stupid? His tactic drew out a scummy response almost instantly after he chose a target.

Are you deflecting for your teammate, Orange?

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

What exactly is Shade doing that is stupid? His tactic drew out a scummy response almost instantly after he chose a target.

Are you deflecting for your teammate, Orange?

He's fishing and I'm always agro on Shade for Fishing... This is literally every game we have ever played.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

What exactly is Shade doing that is stupid? His tactic drew out a scummy response almost instantly after he chose a target.

Are you deflecting for your teammate, Orange?

Wait.... now you're saying ILTS IS scummy? 0_o

[iLikeToSnipe]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

What exactly is Shade doing that is stupid? His tactic drew out a scummy response almost instantly after he chose a target.

Are you deflecting for your teammate, Orange?

Why are you automatically assuming that Shade is scum if he kills town? How many times has Shade tried a gambit as town and gotten town killed? Have you really forgotten that?

Cat5 is sus

[FRAYDO]

Well I wasn't expecting this game to start until Sunday. Hi, allow me time to read everything.

[OrangeP47]

Maybe we're all just not awake yet... I hope... (though somebody has to be the scum...)

Unfortunately I have things I need to do today so I'll be afk for the next few hours.  Everyone needs their morning coffee but keep this going in my absense.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

46 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Though on Shade:  As I implied before in a previous comment somewhere:  He's within his meta, so I'm not worried about him for now.  He does what he does, that doesn't make him scum, that just potentially makes him a less than optimal player at times.

 

41 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

It's more nuanced than that.  "Shade is being shade" does not equal "Shade is doing something good".  "Shade is being Shade" is NAI, maybe even town sided, because he *does* act differently when scum (I've been scum with him).  However, people supporting Shade when he might not be doing something good is... interesting.

 

14 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean, if you're trying to argue to me that Shade is town, you don't need to do that to me at present time. This isn't about Shade.  It's about you.

Again, I'll reiterate my point.  There's town, and then there's town doing stupid things.  You can support town, but it's weird if you're potentially supporting town doing stupid things.  All it takes from you is to leave it at "I don't think he's really fishing" and I'd be satisfied.

Unfortunately, I do think this might be mostly a missing of the nuance.

 

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

He's fishing and I'm always agro on Shade for Fishing... This is literally every game we have ever played.

Will you make up your mind whether you find Shade suspicious or not?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

6 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Wait.... now you're saying ILTS IS scummy? 0_o

YES. Shade drawing out a suspicious response from iLTS is kind of the whole basis for me trusting him.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

6 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Why are you automatically assuming that Shade is scum if he kills town? How many times has Shade tried a gambit as town and gotten town killed? Have you really forgotten that?

Cat5 is sus

Excuse me, what am I assuming? It looks like every part of that first sentence is something that you are incorrectly assuming. I've even individually colored the incorrect words for you.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

How about I turn that sentence around on you and ask why you are assuming that Shade is the opposite alignment of you, and was going to kill you?

[iLikeToSnipe]

53 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I don't think a town player uses a day action in that situation. Something bad happens to them and doesn't get explained, Shade gets lynched. It totally makes sense for a Mafia/TP player to just duck out and use plausible deniability later, as that's better than getting outed and confirming a town player at the same time on Day 1.

Come on Cat5. How is that not implying "Oh, just let something bad to you and we kill Shade." If I were town, why would I want something bad to happen two town?