A Path Beyond Mammoth Tank self-repair

[des1206]

I have a small gripe about the Mammoth Tank's self-repair ability. Because the game makes vehicle armor more superior than health (a great mechanic in-of-itself), the tank "repairing to 50%" isn't really at 50%. Another to say it, in Red Alert, a Mammoth Tank self-repaired to 50% health would be as strong as a light tank. However in APB, it's repaired 600 health would be inferior to a 300/300 light tank. 

I really appreciate this unit's design and the beautiful balance this game currently has. You can tell a lot of hard work has been put into testing and balancing. So i just want to make it clear i say the above out of thankfulness and as a "for your consideration".

Slow vehicles are usually at a disadvantage on large maps, since the enemy has plenty of time to respawn and attack you over and over to whittle you down. Can we consider some sort of full-heal upgrade for the mammoth tank? But armor self-repair only starts if the tanks has been out of battle for a while?

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by des1206

[alphoca]

1) It takes less damage aganist a light tank waepon

2)Light tank weapon hits less aganist a mammy

1 Mammy alone is not that useful on field  . But 3 mammies together is devastating aganist enemy , Longbows counter Mammies.

Some vehicles utilize better on some maps and some dont .

I personally do not think a "buff" you considered is needed.

[GibbletsnBits]

Many moons ago the mammoth had varying degrees of self repair all within the 50%-100% range. It quickly got out of hand in larger games when the repair was above 75%. I'd be okay if it got a bit of armour back just to ward off the worst of small arms fire, say <30% of total armour would be my suggestion.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by GibbletsnBits
grammar

[Voe]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:01 AM, des1206 said:

I have a small gripe about the Mammoth Tank's self-repair ability. Because the game makes vehicle armor more superior than health (a great mechanic in-of-itself), the tank "repairing to 50%" isn't really at 50%. Another to say it, in Red Alert, a Mammoth Tank self-repaired to 50% health would be as strong as a light tank. However in APB, it's repaired 600 health would be inferior to a 300/300 light tank. 

I really appreciate this unit's design and the beautiful balance this game currently has. You can tell a lot of hard work has been put into testing and balancing. So i just want to make it clear i say the above out of thankfulness and as a "for your consideration".

Slow vehicles are usually at a disadvantage on large maps, since the enemy has plenty of time to respawn and attack you over and over to whittle you down. Can we consider some sort of full-heal upgrade for the mammoth tank? But armor self-repair only starts if the tanks has been out of battle for a while?

 

I completely agree with what you say - units (especially the mammoth) take additional health damage once their armor goes down, meaning a 50% mammy is a lot more vulnerable than it appears.

However, the soviets are currently very strong. While the winrates for the past year and a half osscilate around 50:50, the higher the player count, the more they're skewed in soviet favour. Buffing a key unit in large game soviet pushes (which often also their win condition) could make 15v15 and higher matches (ie, all of the game nights) unplayable for the allies.

[des1206]

2 hours ago, Voe said:

While the winrates for the past year and a half osscilate around 50:50, the higher the player count, the more they're skewed in soviet favour.

I wonderful if this is because Soviet units are easier to use in direct attacks and require less coordination/teamwork, and in larger games, it's harder for Allies to pull off shenanigans like infiltration and ambush with more Soviets on the map. 

[Voe]

5 minutes ago, des1206 said:

I wonderful if this is because Soviet units are easier to use in direct attacks and require less coordination/teamwork, and in larger games, it's harder for Allies to pull off shenanigans like infiltration and ambush with more Soviets on the map. 

Pretty much. Allies are built in no small part around blowing up Soviets with Tanyas. That's hard when there are 20+ infantrymen guarding the soviet base.

[ChopBam]

I've seen a number of light/phase tank rushes work, and in the past, ranger rushes. But they do require coordination. It's easier when the team's not cooperating to go in as a Tanya or Engineer and solo some structures.

A spy shutting down defenses/repairs also requires some amount of specific teamwork to be effective.

[des1206]

Some Allied-buff balance ideas then to help direct confrontation

1. Make APC/Ranger's machine guns a little better vs Soviet infantry like shock and Volkov

2. Shorten shockie's range a little more so they are easily kited in open field without cover.

3. Make Tanya more useful in open field by increasing her Colt .45 range, but also her C4 throw range and C4 dmg vs vehicle.

4. How about a Chronotank weapons logic that damage tank armors more, but health less? Alternatively, give the CT a small bonus dmg vs Mammoth armor

5. Increase CT dmg vs buildings slightly more so they can join in on a base attack easier.

6. Give the Phase Tank full/limited self-repair abilities. It did that in one of the Aftermath missions. Increase its price if you have to. This will drastically improve its lifespan in the field for skilled operators.

Edited December 14, 2021 by des1206

[Killing_You]

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

Some Allied-buff balance ideas then to help direct confrontation

1. Make APC/Ranger's machine guns a little better vs Soviet infantry like shock and Volkov

APC feels fine IMO, and any buffs to the ranger will likely carry over to the Captain, so I'd exercise caution there.

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

2. Shorten shockie's range a little more so they are easily kited in open field without cover.

I think the shockie feels fine right now. If anything, it could do with a bit of a range boost.

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

3. Make Tanya more useful in open field by increasing her Colt .45 range, but also her C4 throw range and C4 dmg vs vehicle.

Not a bad idea, really.

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

4. How about a Chronotank weapons logic that damage tank armors more, but health less? Alternatively, give the CT a small bonus dmg vs Mammoth armor

That alternate suggestion is probably the better of the two. The Chrono Tank already feels like it should be a somewhat beefy brawler with a unique escape/approach option. Could probably lean into that a little more, and if it's too much, perhaps cutting the teleport ability for a few seconds if you take damage? (That way you can't just insta-nope out of a bad fight, you'd need to be smart).

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

5. Increase CT dmg vs buildings slightly more so they can join in on a base attack easier.

This, I'm also wary of, considering how they can already bypass a front line easily. But I'm not against it wholesale.

56 minutes ago, des1206 said:

6. Give the Phase Tank full/limited self-repair abilities. It did that in one of the Aftermath missions. Increase its price if you have to. This will drastically improve its lifespan in the field for skilled operators.

I'm not sure if I like this, honestly. It's already quite capable in the right hands, and self-heal might be a bit too much. On top of that, it'd diminish the role of the mechanic.

[des1206]

I still think my CT anti-armor idea is worth exploring. It encourages more of a combined arms tactic.

For example: +30% armor dmg/-30% health dmg let CT keep its DPS the same, but make it really useful in large battles as it helps to strip armor off of Soviet tanks for allies to take advantage of. It could "zip around the battle field stripping armors" XD

On the Phase getting health regen, I just think this opens the phase up to infantry combinations that's other than Mech/Phase.