Chad1233
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Posts posted by Chad1233
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I know... I really miss playing it to. Sole Survivor was lots of fun when we had 20+ player games.
I saw a late Sole Survivor fan site that mentioned people describing Renegade as "Sole Survivor 2" and definitely has the same vibes as playing Renegade despite the top down RTS perspective. The more people that joins the more chaotic and fun it gets.
https://web.archive.org/web/20021214155911/http://globalss.virtualave.net:80/index.htmlOriginal archive link to said website if interested. It also shows on the front page when the servers were officially shutdown as well.
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On 9/1/2023 at 9:20 AM, Einstein said:
@ CCHyper Hey is this project still ongoing? I was reminded of it because Sole Survivor came up in a C&C Facebook group today. It would be cool if there was an update to offer to them, I think you might get some followers out of it. Let us know!
CCHyper is still busy with real life commitment so nothing has changed yet currently.
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On 8/22/2023 at 1:03 PM, Ice said:
RA2 has no connection to the Tiberium universe, so the extreme amount of crazy tech in RA2 isn't a problem in that sense; Westwood themselves even stated that RA2, although following on from RA1, takes place in its own separate universe where the world took a very different turn from that of the Tiberium universe. Both timelines canonically follow the Allied victory (with the Soviet campaign as a non-canon 'what-if' scenario), but something about the war itself or its aftermath was drastically altered to produce the RA2 timeline.
In fact, according to Westwood's internal drafts for Tiberian Incursion which EA later developed (albeit heavily changed/reworked) into C&C3, the RA2 universe was directly caused by time-travel shenanigans involving Yuri, similarly to how RA1 and the Tiberium timeline were caused by Einstein's time-travel shenanigans in the first place, making RA2 an 'alternate-alternate' universe. (Which is kinda funny since RA3 was also caused by time-travel shenanigans, making it an 'alternate-alternate-alternate' universe, with the general pattern seemingly being that every time history is changed, the world just gets progressively crazier
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Also don't forget that Westwood actually tried to tie RA2 into C&C1's timeline during Renegade 2's first initial development with the Scavengers. It would of been interesting too see how that would of worked out. But it seems shortly after they scrapped all of that, and was turned into "RA2 but as a FPS game" like Apocalypse Rising before cancellation. Some early alpha screenshots have shown that later build to even have working multiplayer to some extent with the Prism Tanks.
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Well this thread is more about discussing the original intentions of Red Alert 1's timeline since Westwood kind of left it up for guessing when it first came out. In my opinion Red Alert 2 is such a different game it hardly looks canon to the original Red Alert, that was more grounded and shared tech with GDI/Nod (excluding giant tesla coils and giant ants). The amount of crazy stuff in Red Alert 2 suddenly goes missing in C&C1 like Prism Tanks, Mirage Tanks, etc. Westwood clearly planned RA1 to be the direct prequel to C&C1 since RA1 would end near the start of the first game originally and not have the existence of RA2.
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3 hours ago, Ice said:
Exactly, the whole 1970s comment really just seems like them speaking without putting any real thought into it in that regard. Regardless of any other factors, Stalin being alive and not visibly decrepit means that RA1 absolutely could not have taken place any later than the early 1960s (and even that's a stretch), although the 1950s is the most likely overall (personally I've always considered RA1 to take place from 1949 to 1953 and that's most likely never gonna change lol).
Well after, all these statements were made really early in RA1's development, in my opinion it is perhaps a leftover when RA1 was in early planning development stage when it was still just an expansion pack to C&C1 which it started out as. During the first story drafts it might of simply been NATO vs Soviets as shown in the radar sidebar from the pre-alpha mockup screenshot Westwood released. So a 1970s timeline would make the biggest sense there considering the tech in the game. It's possible Stalin was added to the mix quite soon during development and they had to change the timeline again once they realized the age gap.
The idea that it started in the 40s and lasted to the 80s would make sense as well since the early tech in RA1 is primarily WW2 based and then you start unlocking 70s tech later on. Though the question would be is why none of the generals age during the campaign? Stalin and others should be dead by end of it, along with a granny Tanya.
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While this topic is old, I do have something new to add to my own topic from a magazine page I found with the help of a friend. As Westwood went further into the concept of the timeline of Red Alert 1 and changed it up over time. Apparently it now started in the 1940s and ends nearly to the 1980s. That would make it an insanely long lasting war!
Also speaking of pre-release content, Red Alert 1 had plans for a hijacker to steal vehicles and engineers were able to repair bridges. There's actually source leftovers for that but it does nothing except give a "enter" cursor I believe. In skirmish, countries were meant to have bigger house bonuses and they mentioned Italy (beta allied house) as having extra firepower and lower armor. A shame that wasn't utilized very well except for small buffs.Most interesting part was you could lose some missions that could change the story in minor ways, and characters like Tanya can die mid-campaign and permanently be gone in the rest of it. I have no idea how they were suppose to do that.
Sources are from here.
https://archive.org/details/intelligent-gamer-issue-2-july-1996/page/n45/mode/2up?q=command+conquer
Spoiler
Spoiler_0045.jpg.1799c5f9be7e4d4639d891003d28b1e3.jpg)
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Tomsons26 showed a link in archive containing stock 3D models that were sold at the time and the pack just so happens to have models that are very similar or the same as various C&C units and buildings from TD to RA2. It even has the single barrel heavy tank model which meant WW most likely bought the model and modified it to have 2 guns for the cutscenes to save time, I really would like to see a mod for APB to replace the one in-game with this one but with the fixed double barrels!
https://archive.org/details/VPmodelcoll
Not sure where the Heavy Tank model is but I assume it's in the zipped folder "Viewpoint 3D Models Platinum" under Military sub folder. I don't have the software to open this stuff.
In their homepage it looks like they took commissions and WW probably hired them for the majority of their CGI assets. If more CD's are found we could probably find even more models WW used for their cutscenes.
http://web.archive.org/web/20001205083800/http://www.viewpoint.com/
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4 hours ago, Metaridley said:
understandable but neat that we will get to see SS online this year! any infos about some patches like resolution upscale?
If by upscale you actually mean higher resolutions seen in the CnCNet versions of TD and RA1 to see more of the battlefield? Then yeah, there will be options for that. On which resolutions will be available? I don't know yet.
By the way. Have you checked out the streams/recordings some of our testers have uploaded? This channel recorded some 20+ player games which I timed one here for you. It was really fun to be there!
https://youtu.be/wGjQv43hvGY?t=1407
Also Included is Lunak89 who's been streaming the games.
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9 hours ago, Metaridley said:
any news about SS Online Servers? its now august and i am still waiting for it. Will there be also QoL patches on the release like scaling up to 1080p?
The lead developer is currently busy with real life obligations, but they are looking to release publicly later in the year.
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On 8/4/2022 at 4:07 AM, thedisclaimitory said:
kind of interesting actually, because the retaliation release on the PS1 went more Indepth with the Greece plot and ended up giving more perspective to the war in general.
I think this was Something the game originally wanted to portray but i guess was cut out sadly.
I'v just recently played the campaign according to the mainline story playing both soviet and allied missions back to back until they finally meet the crossover and the allies are the ones who win it out along with the other games that feature missions within certain side plots like the fall of greece and the serran gas or the counter strike missions.
Playing it like this sort of makes things feel more weighted when you play these missions along with the mainline story back to back.
It does beg the question of what was the original story supposed to be?
We do have a lot of unused cutscenes that were repurposed into the mainline story, and a lot of just cut content from the story in general as seen here, -
especially in tib dawns mainline story.Have you seen the early Soviet script for their campaign? It's uploaded in a C&C wiki https://cnc.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Alert_1_cutscene_script. It shows that Nickos Stavros was a traitor working for the soviets, and Georgi Kukov defects to the Allies due to Stalin's brutal methods. There's also the mission where you help Vladimir Kosygin defect, I imagine he would of been originally Kukov. The original ending for the Soviets is pretty cool, they iron curtained their Badger Bomber that's carrying a nuclear payload and then chronoshift it to DC and drops it at Washington.
Also there was another thing I forgot to mention that's in the source code. Spain has music exclusive to their house that the other Allied houses do not get if you were to play as them in retail, such as the expansion music which some are designated to Spain and USSR instead of the Allies despite being post retail release.I wonder if they were early WIP music exclusive to the Spain campaign that didn't get finished until the expansion packs were out?
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I've read some pre-release articles of Red Alert a while back and found some extra evidence other than the internal editor in the game and manual that the Allies were meant to have 2 campaigns. This article is quite early with the game being 3 months in development.
https://archive.org/details/Computer_Gaming_World_Issue_140/page/n47/mode/2up
Spain would be their Northern HQ with Greece being the Southern HQ. More evidence to this is also in the game's original manual under their military information.
Quote* BASE OF OPERATIONS: Headquarters, Unified Operations, London; Northern Theatre, Oslo; Southern Theatre, Madrid
Madrid, Spain, but being their Southern HQ, It's swapped in the game's editor for some reason. Oslo, Norway, so no idea why you're Greece then. With London being the Unified Operation for England, they're commonly seen as a support house in official missions. Spain missions are written as SCSxxea.ini which isn't re-used anywhere else.
While we got early NATO mock-up screenshots with Spain present and the E3 map we restored, But I can't really say if the story would of been different, how much was leftover, or combined with the single Allied campaign. But I suspect some of them may of been borrowed for the Allied Counterstrike missions, since they fit well with the original story that wasn't covered in the Allied campaign such as sarin gas; unlike the Aftermath missions which have nothing to do with the campaign.4 -
Thanks for the correction. I also took another look at the manual and found the corruption/scandal aspect under Nod's military information.
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I forgot to add that Renegade during alpha when it was meant to be closer to Tiberian Dawn, WW gave GDI the M16 and interestingly a M4 with the 203 grenade launcher. It's the standard issue that the American army used which GDI is 100% based on, so it makes sense that their weapon internally is the M16. The manual made a mistake in my opinion.
Not trying to change your mind since your team probably had the same discussion and points. I'm throwing my opinion what weapon GDI should use even if it's considered "boring".
QuoteThe manual did, indeed, specify the GAU-3 for GDI and the M16 for Nod. This was the reason we were originally planning to have Nod use the M16A3 for a while. But as previously stated;
Which manual? The PDF one I brought up has no mention which weapon each side used only what both of them had.
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I mean I'm not entirely sure WW knew what gun the minigunner would use either. The official description in the manual says It's a GAU-3 but the weapon, internally in the source code is a M16 as also shown in the manual. (In spoiler)
Since the internal weapon names tend to be their original during early development this is probably what was. They also may of not had M16 props available in their closet for filming and photos.
Spoiler
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Personally it'd be neat to have weapons from around the world as exclusives in crates or in weapon supply buildings in maps just as a variety thing.
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It's fine if you want variety I'm just personally not bothered if Nod had full on American based weapons since its part of their whole theme.
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The QBZ-95 is such a weird choice since Nod in Tiberian Dawn relied heavily on American equipment. I'm trying to find an old source I read but can't find it, but the explanation behind all this was because there was corruption in the United States Department of Defense and sold much of their equipment to Nod. But as of right now this holds no water.
It may of came from the official C&C1 strategy guide by Brady Games which contains many behind the scenes lore of C&C1. Like Nod actually hacked into GDI's EVA system and stole a beta version of it for their own use. But I don't own it and only managed to read a few scanned pages of it.0 -
Originally Renegade was suppose to be "C&C but in FPS." which shows how closely the vehicles and weapons followed their TD counterparts. I just wish they kept that direction instead of the weird arcade departure it went into. The big issue is Renegade just kept getting re-restarted in development which kept pushing it back and released in a messy way.
Also there is a reddit post of one of the developers who said the Multiplayer's C&C mode was a last minute decision for them to implement. Which I'm glad they did since it managed to save the game from fizzling out quickly after the average reviews it got. Imagine Renegade with only Deathmatch or its list of dropped game modes it had referenced in always.dat.
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4 hours ago, Killing_You said:
Interesting find! I always thought that the oddities with the Medium Tank in the cutscenes was down to quirky art of the time or oversights. Cool to see some basis in reality!
As for GZ, while I can't promise anything, I can say that we're considering it enough to the point where we've added the images you posted to our references. Thanks for the find!Thanks! I really hope to see a C&C1 FPS mod actually be finished and happy too see your team doing great work.
Spoiler
This is obvious but pointing it out just in case. The camo that WW used in all their GDI and Nod CGI models were based on the three color "DCU (Desert Camouflage Uniform)" used by the US Military. It was simply recolored to Urban for Nod.Also I would like to see jungle maps for Ground Zero since WW had plans to add it due to the Nod campaign taking place in Africa. (There's leftovers to being referenced in editor mode). They're One or two Jungle cut scenes still in the game like the chain gunner in a helicopter and they're some renders of GDI units with their camo recolored to green and brown for jungle as seen on the medium tank in my first post.
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Tore pointed out an interesting thing I never noticed about the GDI Abrams Tank seen in the CGI cut scenes. So it seems WW used a early prototype as reference material and looks to be a mixture of the General Motors (Not Chrysler) XM1 turret on a Production M1 Chassis or close to it.
Compared to a M1 Turret the GDI turret is narrower and shorter with different angles like how the roof turret slopes downwards towards the back which is similar to the GM XM1 turret. the gun mantlet area is also similar to the GM XM1 turret.
What's funny is it looks like WW remodeled it to look more like the production version for RA1 so the prequel got a even newer Abrams. Even though it wouldn't make sense for GDI taking place in the 90s, but it'd be neat to see this weird hybrid recreated for the TD mod.
Spoiler
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26 minutes ago, Raap said:
Nice work!
I've never had the chance to play this game. I had no idea it had a 50+ player capacity on what looks like larger maps than the regular RTS game allowed.
Actually the true limit in one game is 100 players, the side limit is lag.
Also it uses 126x126 maps like RA1 but with C&C1 terrain.
I've waited a long time for this to happen and been having fun testing finally getting a chance to play it.
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The Power Plant looks a little plain without its garage doors on the outer walls like the original has in C&C1's CGI model but looks pretty good.
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Just a suggestion but the beta GDI Barracks in C&C1 was meant to have desert camo on it like the CGI model, this would be a neat thing to have it match the terrain of the map to look a little less bland.
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8 minutes ago, Ice said:
Practically all sources specifically place RA1 in the early 1950's. Even RA2 (which itself takes place in the early 1970's and 20 years after RA1) confirms this.
The Q&A was done when RA1 was 2 months in development of course they had a long time to change that but you can't ignore the fact there is left overs of this idea when you look at the tech each side has, then it starts making a lot of sense. Also they said they were mixing 1940s-1980s tech for balance in it.
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Red Alert 1 Chronosphere Stock Sound Effect
in Command & Conquer
Posted · Edited by Chad1233
Just for anyone here who hasn't heard where this awesome sound came from!
It was included in the "Sound Ideas: The General Series 6000" set that also contained a large amount of sound effects WW used for the majority their early C&C games and programs such as WWChat.