OrangeP47
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Posts posted by OrangeP47
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And I still contest that if Kira had Shinigami eyes (which may be a purchase, and therefore qualify as an action, I'd wager, which would delay things I suppose) he could indeed fire from the hip. The thing is, there can be multiple Death Notes I'd also wager, or the person with Shinigami eyes has lent the Death Note for whatever reason (lending does not induce amnesia, as 'losing' it does), or some other reason for scum communication disconnect.
It's fine to disagree with this, and others believe some aspects of it to be unlikely, but I feel as if we're developing a false sense of security when that's a bad thing. If we played a game where we never investigated anyone important deliberately we could hamstring Kira's actions, and I don't think the setup would not give him some kind of a backup if that were the case. We need to be on our toes about everyone.
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Sorry Jeod, that was more directed at Cat 5, I guess I should quote more. I'm mostly in agreement with you.
I'm simply saying that Kira and company could have more resources at their disposal than we're aware of, and it would be foolish to assume we're safe.
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We aren't arguing over those rules. We're aruging over whether or not their alternative ways of getting a name and face. Needing a name and a face is mind numbingly obvious. How you get a name and a face has been rather nebulously laid out, however.
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Just now, Jeod said:
2) The true Kira (Light) does not care about supporters and uses them as a means to an end. There's probably no "secret Hitler" thing involved.
3) I'm adding a third number to your list of theories, and that is that the current Kira in this game has no memory of being Kira. That is, the current Kira does not currently possess a Death Note. This is more unlikely than the rest, because it would all but confirm a Shinigami exists in this game (they are the origin of the notebooks).
2) I agree, but he'd still want them to serve their purpose, first. You may throw away a napkin after eating lunch, but you don't buy them at the store and throw them straight in the trash.
3) I was thinking that too, but didn't know quite how to say it, so I skipped it. I was feeling pressured by the time limit we all thought was here.
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Well aside from making me feel like Kira can choose one of us to die at any moment, it didn't overly affect my thinking, aside from the argument about Shinigami Eyes and the utility of them in docs vs the general day game, which I wouldn't feel is settled either way.
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5 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:
The rules specifically outline that: in order to use the Death Note, the victim's identity (player's character name) has to be revealed to the killer first (either by public investigation, other night action, or some other means). Just by mentioning some character's name in game however will not cut it, the killer needs to know the real identity of the specific player first.
The mafia team clearly does not know any names right now unless they used actions during the night to do so. I'm certain that one of those actions would be being in a doc with another player with Shinigami Eyes active.
My argument is that someone on scum knows, but whoever has the Death Note does not. Unless we decided Voe's claim he was being influenced was just him being weird?
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Hell, maybe there are two scum players who both get orders from Kira, know there's another out there who is on Kira's side, but don't know specifically who that is. Kira might know all with the eyes and relay info, but hasn't relayed who the full team is.
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I'll admit, it's not a complete theory, but it's why I'm so hesitant. I'll present two possibilities.
1) Kira knows who we are, but for some reason didn't N1 because it'd have somehow been suspicious, or he needs people not allied with him to do certain things, and he'll only kill once they've outlived their usefulness. I'll admit, I have nothing to support this idea, but I fail to see how meeting 1 on 1 (or small groups) is sufficiently distinct from our big group meeting of everyone right now.
Or
2) Because the meta has changed, Kira doesn't know who his supporters actually are, kind of like large games of Secret Hitler. He couldn't just randomly kill because he might hit someone with a compatible goal, and he needs to figure their goal out first.
These also have one big factor at play too and also all my other thinking: The real Kira is stated to be an NPC right now, so we're dealing with a proxy, like Misa or someone (I'm going to just say Misa for ease of coversation). It's possible Kira knows all, but Misa is the active killer, and they can't actively talk right now, so there's a disconnect of information on the scum side. Or Misa could see everyone's name with Shinigami eyes, but doesn't have accurate 'orders' on who she needs to kill, etc. This type of setup with so many differeny motives is great for several different mafias or having third parties or what not. In summary, and I'll bold this as it's the important part and I'm really kind of rambling: I don't think the scum side are in full communication with each other. Again, though, my rationale for believing this is thinking that someone *does* know our identities, is responsible for Voe's odd behavior, but has not laid into the town full bore yet for some strange reason. The bold is what my guess at the 'some strange reason' is.
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That's a very interesting point indeed. I suppose Nodlied is the one always asking for info about the series, but perhaps CK had just overlooked/forgotten this about the series. My stance has always been that if the Shinigami Eyes are in play then we don't even need to be in docs for Kira to know.
You definitely raise a good point, but I'm not sure it's quite as strong as you believe.
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I suspect at the very least Misa is around. She's too important a character to leave out.
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Heh, technically speaking, isn't the Death Note a weapon?
Also to fill out the less serious post, I propose once people start dying (I assume it'll happen at least once) that the doc for the dead people to eat popcorn in be called the Dead Note
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TBH I think we've moved past that now. Yeah, Jeod is certainly a "popular" guy, but everyone's on the same page to just be wary and that investigation is pointless.
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Like I said, on the fence. I'll admit, I'm not the most comfortable with L's power going to CK, yet at the same time, of the 3 people closest, I'm not comfortable and/or confident enough in them to warrant the expenditure of resources to change it. ChopBam would be the "most" trustworthy alternative (IMO), but still, I'm not quite sure what his angle is so I'm not sure I'd want to hand it over. Voe, in distant 5th with trust, gets a 'lol no' assessment for that. Everyone else is far enough down we'd have to spend *a lot* to put them in the running, but for completeness' sake, Cat 5 and FRAYDO too inactive/mysterious for the job, Mojo has minor suspicion IMO the same as the top level candidates, and that just leaves myself and KY. Obviously I think very highly of myself, but I can't ask you guys to share that sentiment
I'd actually be fine with giving it to KY, but I think others haven't felt as rosy about his analysis as I have, and he's also down here at the bottom, so...
Yeah... summary again is I'm not exactly happy with the trust levels, but don't feel as if we can (right now, on Day 2) justify throwing our proposal points to the wind to 'correct' that.
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1 minute ago, Jeod said:
I've been trying to block CK. Granting trust points to ChopBam wouldn't have solved anything unless everyone else did the same.
Eh, red herring. I mean you could have just *not* done anything, or gifted the points to someone else. After all, I don't think CK is who ChopBam needs to talk to anyway, but there are (were) lots of people at 0 trust who are blocked as it stands (stood).
2 minutes ago, Chaos_Knight said:You know what? Let the people talk! At least ones at 0/0
Thanks. For what it's worth, I think if you have doc open and your points change balance the doc stays open though. (Just speculation I don't know.)
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Just now, Jeod said:
Precisely. It's as if they don't want us to communicate that way.
Says the person that just blocked one more person from that ability
You can see why I'm on the fence, no
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Speaking of, at this rate, the only people who will be able to start docs are ChopBam and Nodlied.
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Did we ever ask if having too much suspicion cancels out getting the special L power from most trust?
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46 minutes ago, Killing You said:
-Mojoman has been fairly active, but the thing that stands out to me is the fact that he gave Voe trust, and then asked if anyone noticed. Seems to me like he may have been testing the waters. And with his activity dieing down, I wonder if he made sure that people weren't too suspicious of him before trying to stay out of the spotlight. I don't think this should go unnoticed.
I noticed and he did not notice I noticed and did not notice that I noticed him asking if we noticed either
Anywho, I'd be agreeable to investigating the inactive people. As per usual I don't want to commit too hard to anything without solid evidence. I don't have anything against Cat 5, but seeing what he is would be interesting. I'd lump FRAYDO into the same reasons. I agree with the suspicions against Mojo, too. Voe... yeah... but for some reason I think we'd get more questions than answers, and someone else is definitely pulling the strings, so no there.
That said, I don't think we're at a tie right now, so I can sit back and still be indecisive
(The CVC repost, while helpful, wasn't up to date btw I'm pretty sure). If we get back into a tie situation I'll break the tie, but it's just for want of being productive, and shouldn't be taken as wanting to throw anyone to the wolves.
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Beacon? What is this? Did a spy plant the a-bomb flare now and needs the engineer?
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Proposal - can be turned 1 to 1 into suspicion or trust and put on someone.
Suspicion - used to break ties on votes
Trust - if you have more of it than suspicion you can basically initiate masons as will. Helps regen proposal.
There are also powers out there that require one or the other of the three things, but we don't know anything about that really, other than what our own roles have given us.
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ChopBam doesn't need to have the most trust, he just needs more trust than suspicion to be able to contact people. Granted, we *could* give him the most trust to get whatever special night power is on D2 (not necessarily the same as on D1), but that's an entirely separate issue.
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1 minute ago, Jeod said:
They don't need to yet. Voe has done the work for them.
A fair point, I suppose, that you're currently on the hot seat.
For what it's worth, while I don't want to commit to anything at this time (and hopefully get this sorted out, but not holding my breath), if it comes down to it tomorrow I'll take action to prevent a "wasted" vote from happening again (if I can). I do not do this absolving anyone of suspicion, and I really don't want to cast suspicion on anyone either until more information is gained.
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Indeed, they aren't actually voting for you, though. Yeah, they were kind of tunneling there, being overzealous when there was no endgame for that line of reasoning, but now it seems the overzealousness has swung the other way. There are indeed reasons to be suspicious of CK and Nodlied for the tunnel, but they've not put their votes on the line yet.
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[DAY 9 - Game End] Death Note themed Detective Mafia Forum Game
in Forum Games
Posted
Well, it's not outside of the written rules. He'd still get a name and a face. You have to think of these rules in very rules lawyery terms, and the rules have also even said there may be additional stipulations not revealed in the OP.
But having to make a trade for it is indeed a good point. I don't have an answer for that.