VERTi60
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Posts posted by VERTi60
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16 minutes ago, Nodlied said:
The gun, or at least its mechanics, was/were a mistake.
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1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:
I have a grand total of 5 things you could classify as new video games from Christmas, some of which I've not even installed yet, and I have the capital to buy more (though I probably won't), and I'm also suddenly obsessed with some older games too.
Because of older games I didn't play or finish at least half of my steam library myself.
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Just now, OrangeP47 said:
To be fair Nodlied's game seemed like it was *supposed* to work that way.... we just eventually got fed up and decided to go Committee of Public Safety on all the other factions
Yea it got ridiculous but not surprising, it was just "easier" and a lot "faster".
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12 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
But like I said, I haven't hammered out the details because I've been being lazy (and got a ton of video games for Christmas)
Same here, been playing crossout recently a lot with some buddies and thus filling my free time with nonsence
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7 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:
Was it a standard lynch day/night cycle?
Yes it had, though that's not the point. If someone is spoiled by something as important the game gets spoiled as well at some point. Maybe the difference is how fast the game is run and what you have to do to get it completed rather than the basic mechanics of it.
7 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:Avalon is a bit different, no killing during the game and you have missions you have to pass as town or fail as mafia. Once you have X amount pass/fail a winner is determined. So you have to figure out who failed a mission, who to send on missions, etc. Has several layers of voting, turns for picking missions, and other interesting mechanics. If you have enough players you'd also have a godfather role that the cop doesn't know about.
However it would be interesting to have a game with no killing and instead focused on objectives/tasks/ and possible outcomes with a chance of back-stabs/sabotage and plotting. In fact, my political mafia concept was revolving around that idea .
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9 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:
For example, town has a cop who knows every member of the mafia.
Afaik we had few games with this mechanic (for example the pony mafia that was hosted on BHP forums), and it wasn't very good role (in fact it kinda ruined it for mafia I was part in).
2 hours ago, Sunflower said:Welcome to the forum!
+1
17 hours ago, TheIrishman said:On a random note, went over to a friend's yesterday and saw the game Werewolf which apparently goes up to 75 players. First time I'd seen a mafia game outside of the forum. Thought I'd share, though there's only a few roles that we haven't used yet.
Now I remembered that I wanted to host a Vampire/Werewolf Mafia hybrid forum game based on Underworld Saga, but it didn't get enough votes/attention.
On 12/26/2018 at 3:34 PM, OrangeP47 said:We could push this back to Februrary even if needed.
I will be sorting out my situation regarding new work opportunities, maybe even moving. I might have time for short games but probably not a lot for forum game and duels.
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Question is if we want to turn the games into battlefield/COD, but personally I prefer the arcade easy feeling we have.
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2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
Even beyond confirming, it would be epic lols if the subpen unwittingly repaired a damaged allied though
Maybe that can happen in next game under certain circumstances.
But it would be a bitch GM mechanic for sure.
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4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
Maybe let the subpen fix up allies or something to throw a wrench in things.
I see nothing wrong that soviets had way of semi-confirming players, especially if there is a certain chance that it would fail (e.g. chronosphere effect, revealing who's who and their coordinates, etc.). Allies always had an option to remove the cleared players, and with the Helicarrier they could have remove the subpen itself.
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13 minutes ago, Alstar said:
My thoughts exactly tbh. Once everyone started proving themselves i knew that neither me or KY can come up with a claim that would even partially clear us out. KY being unable to submerge, pen hauling me would not work. Allies would be unable to win without using Helicarrier - and we failed to summon that twice. We had no idea what would we even benefit from that until Vert wrote about that in scum doc. But that was around the time i sent the surrender post.
Scum getting on chopping block isn't something that is rare, it's happening in every game, thing is if they are able to maneuver out of it. Just want to point out that not every player was confirmed and there was still room to make false claims. The truly bad thing was that both Cruiser and Chronosphere were already gone, which could have been your game-changers. Helicarrier came late but that was expected. You also missed opportunity to Night kill 2 soviet players, and with combined firepower you could have killed one during the night with the cruiser (if you would decide not to bus it but try to push for different lynch). That being said, allies could also open fire during the day with so many confirmed coordinates, but that I suppose could only work if you would reduce the soviet numbers to be even or even after next night phase (firing close before hammer to eliminate a soviet player voting against you for example could also work).
But yeah, winning the game being passive was certainly out of the question given the bad circumstances.
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8 hours ago, Jeod said:
I would like to see a wider variety of naval units--make the game AR themed instead of APB.
We had mystery units from other universes, but stand alone AR game isn't something to be happening soon I suppose.
7 hours ago, Killing_You said:None taken. We had a new person, an absentee, and a terrible player (that last one is me). It was a difficult time.
I would definitely like to give this setup a second try. It didn't seem like that much of a fair introduction to a pretty cool setup.
7 hours ago, Killing_You said:It wouldn't have mattered, really. The Sub Pen claim was what ultimately saved him. Oh well.
You were not terrible, I suppose you were the only one on the Allied team trying to "do" something during the day. Although if I were in your shoes I would maybe try to risk and push Chop a bit further in order to divert from Jack's lynch. Maybe even a counterclaim for sub pen. Having cruiser surviving at least one more night could mean one confirmed coordinates of a Soviet being the next target during the Night, and perhaps next day Jack wouldn't even be on chopping block depending how things develop.
7 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:Verti seems to like throwing newbies onto the scum team, but honestly I think the success in Death Note was just a fluke. Some town experience first really helps. To fool town, you must become town.
All roles were RNGed and nobody really requested to be allies. Jack said he had some experience so I was willing to risk keeping the RNG choice. I don't think Death Note was a fluke, I think Orange is intelligent and he also took the advantage of slipping under the radar with the new player profile. I still don't see Jack's mistake to be as big it's just that he was unlucky and allies decide to bus him instead of trying to buy some time or make a diversion.
As for Alstar, I don't think he's new, he played in a few RA: APB forum games before. He was just too pre occupied and I didn't know about it before the start of the game.
As for KY, well he deserves scum practice if he wants to be any better at it 😄
6 hours ago, Shade939 said:This is still a pretty powerful Town setup, and Town should be weakened so it's not as easy to clear Town players.
The only two Town players that couldn't prove their role this game were the missile subs. And even then they could still be targeted by the Sub-Pen.
For next game I will definitely nerf attack subs to have only one time night action instead of 2/10, while having sub pen to replenish it. But otherwise I don't see it a big issue, that's one of the ways town can operate in the setup. If they were unable to confirm players they would be sitting dead in the water.
5 hours ago, ChopBam said:To be perfectly fair to you, it's not easy for me to read you either. You're scum a lot more often than I am, and you've gotten skilled at hiding, and many times it feels like it comes down to 50/50 really.
5 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:People were scumreading me so much this game I thought I was going to have an aneurysm.
I agree that chop is hard to read, probably more than Orange and Shade even.
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15 minutes ago, Nodlied said:
I wonder if it could work in a chat version. Unless the map updates are automated, I don't think that we'll have enough time for the day phases while waiting on coordinate reveals.
They are pretty fast, as you have seen Orange's minigame responses. It is partially automated and I can make it fully automated, but w/o actual images.
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Question is if you would also play it as chat game version, which ofc would be simplified - smaller map, no airfield or chronosphere.
For a forum version I can also try different setups I had in mind (different mystery but with similar mechanics, different units and different mission objectives).
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1 hour ago, ChopBam said:
No honorable mention for successfully protecting Jeod?
I suppose yes
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2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
I did almost demand a doc with him while I was vortexed
Hmm yea that one could be interesting.
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3 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
Forget to post the dead doc or did I miss it?
We didn't have enough active dead players this time around, unless you are interested what Shade would type alone
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Game End
Congratulations, comrades! You were able to find and destroy the Allied fleet, which allowed us to maintain the naval superiority in the region.Now we can sink the allied dogs like the sinking rats they are...
[Game Over] SOVIETS HAVE WON!
Game Winners:
Category 5 Hurricane, the Soviet Missile Submarine, is victorious!
ChopBam, the Soviet Sub Pen, is victorious!
FRAYDO, the Soviet Spy Plane - Naval, is victorious!
Jeod, the Soviet Attack Submarine, is victorious!
Nodlied, the Soviet Missile Submarine, is victorious!
OrangeP47, the Soviet Attack Submarine, is victorious!
Voe, the Soviet Attack Submarine, is victorious!
I'm also rewarding some of the players of the game:FRAYDO - I spy with my little eye… Award, for scouting KY on N1
JackoDerp - First Hit! Award, for Hitting Nodlied on N1
Killing You - I spy with my little eye… Award, for scouting chronoshifted voe on N1, allowing Allies to have 4 coordinates for N2
Shade939 - At least you tried... Chronoshifted players: 2/5
Jeod - Red October Award - successfully escaped detection and Night Kill and helping town push the suspects
Voe - Silent Hunter Award - Hitting a enemy player during Day
OrangeP47 - Finding and destroying the Allied Helicarrier
Chopbam - Honorable mention for protecting friendly Submarine
All Active TOWN Players - despite Allies being lucky N1 acquiring many targets, town quickly turned the tables around and took initiative.
Quote of the game:
“What’s your gameplan, allies” - Voe
Allow me to quote Pushwall
“Fight, lose, fail”
-Alstar
Player Roles & Game Information
Player Role Infos:
Don't forget to check out the DOCS, as there is more information to the game, as well as some of the funny moments!
Game Log & Naval Map reveals
Original topography and player unit placement:
Ending player unit placement on D4:
Player unit statistics on D4 before Allied surrender:
Game Balance & Comments
Before I get to revealing balance and commenting on game, let me first note that the game was designed to give each of the factions opportunity to win the game relatively fast with tempo based, synergistic actions, but everything was relying on Naval Map scouting, coordinating and planning.
While Soviets only had the basic mafia mechanics to win the game, e.g. lynch, they also had the advantage of knowing/expecting what they are up against, thus logically concluding player roles after a fashion. However, they were completely blind on Naval Map (which could result into friendly fire) and didn't know what to expect regarding Naval Map reveals, because they only had one public scout unit, which could also help scum.
Allies had the big advantage of doing extra scouting, revealing player positions and enormous firepower combined with the Depth charge, Cruiser Support Fire and ultimately the Allied Helicarrier, which multiplied all of their actions. With this, they were able to have multiple town kills per phase. However, they had to deploy the Helicarrier first and had to be lucky revealing, prioritizing and eliminating important units before town can use them to detect them.
Third Party Mystery unit was in the game to turn the tide from one side or another, causing a bit chaos and misleading. With the mechanic to teleport players around and causing misinformation regarding results, its purpose was mostly to serve as a distraction and also as extra topic for both sides to discuss during the course of game.
All three sides had their roles, abilities and mechanics designed to be "rock, paper, scissors." Each unit countering another one but was vulnerable to other as well (e.g. naval/ground/air). This was also affecting night actions. For example, TP Chronosphere and Allies couldn't target a unit protected by Sub Pen, but Sub Pen couldn't target a player already chronoshifted (unless the chronoshift didn't violate any of the basic unit placement rules), which could benefit Allies to cause extra misinformation for Sub Pen. Chronoshifts could also cause extra casualties or "unit mergers", which could possibly turn the game's outcome in an instant - however, considering the big size of the map this was less likely to happen but couldn't be ruled out either.
Also, all unit roles were assigned to players randomly by the Random Role Assigner Script which was developed to quickly prepare RA:APB chat games. Only Shade939 requested special role. Irish requested a custom unit but we were not able to finish the role (reasons explained after D1) so he ended up with Sub.
Let's take a closer look at the units and mechanics:
Soviet Attack Submarine, being the "vanilla town" was actually very important asset, mostly because of the "submerge" ability. On one hand it gave Soviets the opportunity to "try and test" players, however, it also gave Allies and Third Party the necessary information for their Night Actions. Submerge's primary action however was to hide against random shooting during Day and Night (e.g. from Cruiser Support Fire or Chronosphere).
Soviet Missile Submarine was more or less a tactical unit for the Soviets, having extra unit tile to survive random shooting and also the late game unit able to counter Allied Helicarrier scouting/night killing action. Capable of shooting during the night, it could also help destroying suspects quicker or help with "role unit proving".
Soviet Sub Pen was the most important asset for Soviets. Being the town doctor and cop at the same time. With that said, it's also vulnerable in that regards as losing it would be a powerful loss to town. Sub Pen was vulnerable to Cruiser Support Fire and Allied Helicarrier's buffed Night Kill as well as random fire or Chrono vortex.
Soviet Spy Plane was the town's eyes. As it was mentioned, it was important to reveal the map for town in case Airfield is destroyed, and also to have better visibility for discussions during the day. Ultimately, every map reveal was situational and could benefit either Soviets or Allies or even Third Party, so it was more or less important for the game to progress overall. Spy Plane was pretty much safest unit on the Naval Map, unless attacked by Anti Air unit or later as being a target to Allied Helicarrier Night Kill.
Allied Gunboat and Destroyer were the primary Allied scouting units to get coordinates of important Soviet players. They were also the only units capable of doing the Depth Charge Night Kill, hence coordination and planning was the key to success.
Allied Cruiser was the Allied primary damage dealer. Capable of multiple shoots during the Night, it could also serve as scout and killer at the same time. With the buff of Helicarrier support, it could become even more deadly. However, in order to be efficient, it required info from the other Allied units first. Cruiser was essential for Allies in order to help destroy the Soviet buildings, especially Airfield once that option was available.
Allied Helicarrier was a mid/late game support unit for Allies, basically being their personal Airfield. During Night 1, Allies received a Mission Objective from Brigadier-General Carville to deploy the Helicarrier on the map in order to unlock special buffs for their Night Actions, but the deployment of the unit had to follow the basic unit placement on the Naval Map. It required a bit of scouting, luck and planning, but the reward of deploying the Helicarrier was big. It could become to be a game-changer in certain situations, since it allowed Allies to have special Helicarrier Night Kill (not meant to be as extra action, but as an alternative option to classic Depth Charge) that allowed them to target certain players even without the coordinates. It was mostly designed to destroy Sub Pen, Spy Plane and Chronosphere, since these units were otherwise hard to detect and/or destroy with other abilities. You can check the exact buffs for Allied Night actions in the Allied Doc.
Troll Chronosphere was the mystery unit of the game, and Chrono Vortex was a result of what Shade939 requested (influencer/controller). As mentioned before, the unit was in game to cause some chaos so that it's harder to determine other player actions and outcomes. There was a possibility that it could also shift the game outcome, however the probability wasn't that big, but still possible. To clarify, the unit wasn't designed to be strictly anti town or anti mafia: Third Party had an objective to successfully chronoshift 5 different players, from which one had to be Allied Ship. Thus, it was in best interest for the Third Party to stale the game until this is completed.
The Chrono Vortex was put in game so that the Third Party could still continue completing its objective, however, there was no control selecting certain players anymore. The Vortex was only deployed as random location in selected Quadrant. Hence the Chronosphere was far more dangerous, since Vortex was more or less RNG based. I've put in the "suck in mechanic" to fulfill what Shade939 has requested, but this mechanic was pretty rare if deployed in quadrant with none or small number of viable targets (e.g. Q2 or Q3).
As you have discovered during the course of the game, the Chronoshifted units could end up teleported close to other units, which would raise some red flags giving the other player a proximity alert. Also as mentioned before, the chronoshifted units that end up being placed on map incorrectly (e.g. too close or hitting ground/other unit) had limited possibilities to use their Night Actions and couldn't be targeted by some of the Night Actions as well such as Sub Pen's Shelter. Chronoshift and Chrono Vortex could also end up destroying a unit completely (in rare scenario destroying more units at the same time even), or even splitting them (Vortex was coordination based instead of player based, so it could split units in half, but this is meant as destroying part of the unit, not having player sharing two coordinates at the same time).
About the possible anomaly in game:
A chrono vortex is an unfortunate side effect of the use of Chronosphere technology.
It is essentially a rift in the space-time continuum that rampages through the battlefield, destroying everything in its path.It appears as a giant whirlpool of bending time, defying the laws of physics. It's size on Naval map is always - 2x2. This devastating event has a 20% chance of happening each time the Chronosphere is activated, thus making it more common than another devastating side effect the Chronosphere can unleash from overuse. Vortexes were generated near the device in use and appeared as swirling space-time rifts, and would change location each phase. Each vortex lasts until it hits a unit or building, which it can either damage, destroy or even chronoshift to different random location next phase if it's a Naval Unit.
I might add more info here once I receive questions.
Now a few comments to actual game-play I have observed.
Despite the disastrous outcome for the Allies, I think the Allies had a big chance of winning the game. At first it seemed that Allies were indeed lucky enough, gaining enough coordinates for N2 as they acquired 4 different player coordinates that they could select for the Night Kill either because of their scouting/shooting actions and day reveals . This alone was beyond my personal expectations, as I expected players would be more careful revealing their coordinates and also considering the chance of hitting players by random.
I think it's quite obvious that the Allies went downhill once the Cruiser was removed from the game. Whether it was by luck or by a "n00b mistake" is debatable, the fact is that the Allied team decided to "bus" their Cruiser in order to become less suspicious, but that didn't help them either. I would like to point out that sometimes it's not the best idea to bus your team mate, sometimes it could be worth causing some diversion, distraction or even counterclaim to buy some more time. Cruiser was certainly worth it considering the fact it could have been used to fire at the extra coordinates which could have caused multiple Night Kills. What followed next however, was the fact that Allies themselves didn't have a solid plan nor initiative during Day talks, they were on the defense most of the time. Perhaps also unlucky due to IRL reasons as well, since Alstar was busy working at Market and couldn't contribute as much, which helped identifying him as one of the suspects. Lack of coordination and discussion in Allied Doc also caused two Night Kill misses (the first because out of 4 possible targets they picked a Sheltered player even though Alstar was already thinking it would end up that way, and the 2nd was probably a typo in coordinates). Deployment of the Allied Helicarrier also took three tries/night actions, which is something that was expected but definitely didn't help Allies crying for a miracle in their current situation.
Shade939 was also not very successful considering the fact he outed himself on D3, maybe for the hope of stalling the game and giving the Allies a chance while he could still function as Vortex. With shade possibly influencing the game there was still a chance Allies could get an initiative, but that didn't happen.
That being said, the removal of Chrono Vortex and Cruiser at the same time gave Soviets a large opportunity to complete the game quickly, which happened as both Alstar and KY finally agreed on something that surrender IS an option. Personally I would like to see some more effort and fight till the end, but I agree the chances were dim and it was hard to maneuver if you can't predict the outcome and being already outed on Naval Map and already marked as suspect.
Overall the game reminds me of the first RA: APB game, where also one simple mistake/slip and inactivity caused Allies to fall like dominoes.
Hence it would be beneficial for the future that if you know that you won't be active enough or you don't feel like being mafia, send a notification to the GM ahead so that alterations could be made in game setup.
Although the game ended up as it did, at least we don't need a break for Christmas/Festive Holidays and we can look forward for more games instead Next Year. That being said, I wish everyone Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Here's a question for players: Would you like to play a Chat Game next Friday 28th? (not naval based, but it's an option if this setup is something you like)
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18 minutes ago, JackoDerp said:
I don't think we were ever going to find the Airfield this game
Airfield wasn't the objective to find and/or destroy, but if discovered, players could opt to switch from classic mafia into boat/sub hunting. It was a very rare scenario, mostly for the end game where all key players and even helicarrier were destroyed and all roles were identified.
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14 minutes ago, Shade939 said:
I'm wondering what would happen if the day lynch was less powerful, and instead of killing a player it only revealed their location and they had to be killed off by shot actions.
Perhaps something like replacing the Spy Plane action with the day lynch for players to vote on.
Something like that was originally planned but I didn't want to deviate too much from classic mafia setup, besides there was also possibility the game would go on for longer than I anticipated, and I actually wanted the game to last before January b/c I won't have much time in Jan/Feb 2019.
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3 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
To be fair, a lot of us were rather free with our coordinates (and it sounds like they only needed 1 hit), so it didn't matter, plus if they could deploy the helicarrier it would no longer matter at all.
That was expected, however I didn't expect 4 revealed coordinates for the Allies before D2. Allies seemed to be lucky with actions until they lost cruiser.
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2 minutes ago, Shade939 said:
I'm a bit surprised that the Allies needed coordinates for the NK since the Airstrike was a guaranteed kill by comparison.
Giving the option for Allies to have standard NK from the get-go seemed not balanced in my scenarios if they go straight after confirmed players/sub pen and with the risk of Chronosphere hitting town more than allies it was also a thing. Allies however had extra firepower with cruiser (it could shoot multiple times at night as well), and with Helicarrier they could NK players without coordinates even.
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3 minutes ago, Voe said:
I would like to know why the NKs didn't go through :c
Allies opted to not NK on N1 to get coordinates. On N2 they had plenty of coordinates, 4, but picking Jeod was a mistake as he was sheltered. On N3 Alstar wanted to target Orange but somehow managed to shoot at C3 instead C2/C1.
This Night they would of had the Helicarrier access buffs for all their actions and NK so they could technically finally kill Choppy even w/o coordinates.
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2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:
The map is kinda crowded...
See and at first it was empty
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1 minute ago, FRAYDO said:
Now for the map reveal!
This was the original setup.
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[Game Over - Town Victory] Pokemafia 2
in Forum Games
Posted
So should I count with you if I would like to finish Dead Island 2 with a coop partner?