OrangeP47

That's just like, your opinion man.

I think you're reading of my posts after it was clarified you wanted to double no lynch is very uncharitable. I actually was fine with it pretty quickly after that. As for the rest of this, I've basically been asked to defend my original reasoning, and I have, I don't know what else you want, I won't apologize for it.

We'd get more reports no matter what because the game would continue. Reread my original arguments. It's about CONTROL. Reports and flips happen naturally as the game progress. It's about town choosing who flips, not scum.

Oh yeah, I guess Friday is *daystart*. My bad. Then I won't be here for hammer Saturday probably, assuming nothing crazy happens and scum doesn't decide to off me

I'll likely be here for hammer today, but won't be for hammer tomorrow or hammer Saturday on the very slight chance we extend the next day for some inane reason.

Why would you just assume Voe is town at that stage? That's not something you should be doing.... The implication is, D1, that Voe could have been mafia at that stage, so that's why he needs resolved, from a town perspective. From a N1/D2 perspective, given than there were conflicting reports on Voe, he was a natural target for more people to cop, only increasing the number of people that have a cop report on him. When he dies, all the people that cop him know if their check on him was correct or not. If we take everyone as face value of being a cop, we know my town check was correct, we know ILTS' check was incorrect, and we know your check was correct. That's A LOT of information for our sodoku. If, by comparison, I died, we'd only learn that Chop's check was incorrect, much less information, and therefore a more ideal kill for mafia to make. These calculuses change a bit for the lynch decision because the N1 checks aren't factored in, obviously, but same principle. As for your last statement, that's a good point. I'm leaning towards ILTS being the scum now, as his case on himself is much stronger than the case on you, which originated from when we were exclusing ILTS from scum consideration.

Honestly, I'll read your post again more charitably and assume you *were* trying to make a point about the lynch and not the NK, and I'll say once no lynching two days in a row was on the table I was more or less fine with the plan. It wasn't spelled out clearly at first.

Your arguments as to why mafia would want to eliminate Voe pretty much work on eliminating any town and ignore the reasons to NOT kill him. It's a poor argument. Like seriously, you're acting like I suggested mafia would rather kill no one than kill Voe, which is just blatant intellectual dishonesty. 1. This only applies if the alternative is NKing no one, which is just dumb, don't pretend like that's a universe I was suggesting as an alternative to what scum would do. 2. What town thinks about the person being killed has no bearing on the NK. Town isn't going to grant mafia a reprieve because they killed the least favorite townie. Nonsense argument. Don't bring lynching Voe into this because I still contend that was *good* for town, and clearly others did agree. 3. Applies to literally everyone in the game at that point. Absolute trash arguments.

I was a bit distracted earlier, so here's some further analysis, because it'll probably come up. 1) Even though my N0 cop report was involved with Voe, that's different than the extenuating circumstance I mentioned for KY because it had already come and gone, and didn't play into any possible factors with what to do a N1. At this stage, without having been copped backed, scum!Orange would be more concerned with keeping options open as to what cop to pretend to be. Indeed, if anything, that should give scum!Orange even more reason to avoid killing Voe N1 as it immediately locks in a few cop types for an alibi (part of the reason scum wouldn't want to eliminate a convergence unless under specific circumstances) 2) As everyone's N0 was picked for them, except scum having to pick their own fake claim, why the hell would I willingly as scum get involved in the Voe convergence. A smart scum move would have been to pick someone not involved. Now, ILTS was involved with Voe too (in a different way), but he went first, and had no way of knowing Voe would be a convergence, or that Voe would have legitimately copped him.

Like seriously, D1, if I was mafia, Voe was the one person I would NOT want to die. That's why I was pushing for him to die, because it helped town. FFS ILTS your logic is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I'm almost 100% convinced it's you now simply because I can't believe a town would fail that hard.

To recap: Those extraordinary circumstances: ILTS - being outed if he's mafia. You - easier to fake a read on him because checking him was the "logical" thing to do.

Because it resolved the cop cluster. The exact reason I was pushing for Voe to be the D1 lynch is exactly why mafia would NOT want to make him the NK, and which is why I was actually pretty surprised he was. You'd have to have extraordinary circumstances to want Voe dead as mafia, and the only two people who do are you and ILTS. I don't.

Now honestly, I'll admit, at the time, in previous day's arguments, I may not have been fully correct, but you're doing an excellent job casing yourself as to why you might have killed Voe last night. Keeping in mind that from a mafia!Orange perspective the reasoning to NK Voe doesn't exist because I wouldn't be outed, the logic to kill Voe coming from me ONLY works town sides, unless you're going to make some kind of claim that I'm framing you.

Voe dying was bad for mafia, which is why it's a dumb mafia kill and I wouldn't do it. I did lay out reasons why KY might do it, or you might do it if you're trying to pull some galaxy brain play, but honestly I can't tell if you're being smart or just really really dumb.

This post by you seemed to be not sufficiently aware of the situation. Specifically the bolded. It's not a 50/50 chance.

The bigger point being that I already copped KY and it came back town, so the only way I can be anything other than naive is if YOU are the scum.

You know... now I'm not so sure... I guess it could be ILTS, especially as he did overlook that one possibility I brought up... I'll put my hat in for ##No Lynch because I do think at this point we need more input of another day, but I also think the extension is still good because we need to keep talking this out.

Yeah, there's no telling if Chop will get back even to read ILTS' big post or my reply (which I'm interested to see ILTS actually think about once he has time).

Yeah, I'd say extend it again. I want to emphasize I am pretty sure I am NOT the sane cop.

I investigated KY and got Town, I'm not the sane cop unless you're mafia.

Sunflower was at least aware of the last game, but busy with the holidays I think originally, when we eventually got around to running it irregardless.

I greatly appreciated it, even if I didn't say so.

I already investigated you. I'm pretty sure I'm the naive cop.

Though just had a thought. Not all of Voe's advice was good, but some of it was, namely that people that got town reads should investigate the mafia reads. That leads to Voe or KY N1. If KY is faking claims, the easiest to fake would have been whoever would be killed. Obviously he can't kill himself. Therefore, that explains the weird Voe kill. This is similar reasoning to why I investigated KY last night.

I had a feeling Chop would be the paranoid cop even before he posted, and that this was all pointing towards KY, but I didn't say anything in case Chop had some sort of curve ball. I suppose this is obvious from my perspective, knowing I'm town, but I can see how you might think I'm scum and I haven't been involved in the copping all that much. I agree the Voe kill didn't make much sense if ILTS is mafia (unless he's playing some serious deflection...), but as I said D1, we have too many town reports and just the right amount of mafia reports so I'm inclined to believe him, especially now that we have a bigger picture. Hell, I'm confident enough I'd be down for voting KY *now* but I can understand if everyone thinks that's a bit too bold.