Water Overhaul

[notDMB]

So.

Ships. Some people love em, I really really hate them. For three main reasons. 

1. The only counter to big ships is big ships

Battleships and cruisers are incredibly durable. Absolutely ridiculously incredible durable, which means killing them takes a really really long time. And their supposed counter, the Torpedo Boat, is absolutely anemic even if now its torpedoes aren't slower than engineers at least. They just don't do any considerable damage because Battleships have a CONSIDERABLE amount of hit points. Torpedo boats need to do a lot more damage than they do now, and I mean 4 or 5 times as much per torpedo. But that only really solves one issue, the other issues comes down to the fact air and land (and amphibious) units are really bad at engaging warships. The best you can really get is something like the Koskan for Nod, but either way you're either a flimsy, stationary, or flimsy stationary target for ships to murder at their leisure because even if their damage is relatively poor they still have WAY more hitpoints than you. Which brings me to.

2. Ships have way too much health

They're boring to fight. They take forever to kill. They take so long to kill if the other team spams them and you have an M113 ADATS it's a fantastic way to make MVP because you will get so many points for shooting them unless they actually manage to kill a building (they usually wont) then you are guaranteed to beat them in points, especially if you intercept them before they reach your base. Their damage is significantly less than their price tag would imply. You're not buying 12,000 credits worth of damage (nor should you be able to), you're buying 10,000 credits worth of hitpoints, and 2,000 credits worth of damage. There's a bit to be said about them doing a ton of AoE damage, but that goes into my next point. 

3. Help I'm getting motion sickness from this

Have you ever wanted to know what a 10.0 BAC level is like? Well you're in luck because just go up against a Battleship and have it focus you and I promise you your screen won't stop shaking until 5 seconds after your beleaguered death. Ships have too many guns. It makes fighting them annoying. It makes fighting them nausea inducing. It makes fighting them cause the sound engine to shit itself like with the AMX-30's autocannon and randomly stop producing any noise for a couple seconds because there's too many overlapping SFX. It would be much nicer if the ships had one player controlled gun and one AI controlled gun with a vision range of 0 you order to fire (T) when you want it to go active. The befits of this would be that

• You can engage two targets simultaneously
• You can separate AA and anti ground abilities thus giving the player a primary fire, an alternate fire, and his AI fire to work with, effectively three weapons (for instance an AEGIS Frigate that sports a 57mm deck gun that can fire AP or HE, and an AI controlled missile launcher you can designate to fire at aircraft)
• You can balance the ships easier by reducing their potential damage output from 24 guns to just 4 or 6. 
• People fighting them won't also be fighting to keep their lunch down. 

Also Nod needs a decent mid-high tier amphibious unit. Their highest tier amphibious combat unit is the BRDM Spitfire which is ill up to the task of engaging ADATS, let alone capital ships. I think this part is well known but I just wanted to reiterate that. But here would be my total suggestion for making ships a bit more approachable and better defined into roles so that there is an incentive to get an actual fleet together, and not just try to sneak up on a base with 4 battleships in the 6 minutes they take to arrive there. 
 

1. Reduce ship model size. Yeah, they're too big, it makes them hard to control and necessitates they be slow. I know their model sizes are already toned down but the larger ones are still far too large to comfortably navigate most of the maps that have water in them. By reducing their models you can:
2. Increase their speed and handling, making them more fun to use and allowing them to be an organic part of the battlefield, rather than a fancy game of Space Invaders how they work now.
3. Reduce the amount of guns they have. I specifically have a suggestion for this which I will make in a followup post to the thread because this one is getting very long.
4. Reduce their cost, reduce their health. Make them a unit that exists on a comparable level to the rest of the units in the game. They can still be the King in price and hitpoints but they don't need to dwarf it all so massively. It's not exactly like they're just better armored than everything else, they just have so many raw hitpoints only units with massive damage output can reasonably dent their enormous HP pools in any reasonable time.

[shoverno2]

It's still really expansive.

And even with this firepower it cant handle airships with their AT missles.

I think, most effective against them is Elbrus from Nod (and almost every vehicle from GDI).

Also, best variant is successful defence of turrets.

And, yes, there's almost no chance to Nod take control under water. There's no any Nod vehicle that can be powerful as Hover MLRS. 

Hope in future Nod will gain some water power.

Edited February 3, 2020 by shoverno2

[Raptor29aa]

Naval Combat is fine as long as have a few ATADs’ you’ll be will be safe from any ship. Mrls are ok, but they lack the DPS of the ATADs’ 

If you’re Nod... you’re hosed. I mean there is the torpedo boat, but pray GDI doesn’t have any air or mrls or ATADs support.