iLikeToSnipe

Uhhhh... you started that gambit after I started a case against FRAYDO. Why would I switch when I had legit reasons to believe that FRAYDO was scum and you were town?

In your dreams. :V I'm back home though, so I'm going to be writing up a post on who else I think could be scum.

Up until today I thought Cat5 was misguided town. With the janitor role, mafia will typically know the role of the player they killed. This allows them to safely claim a power role if they get a power role. Their chances of getting the cop is 1 out of 7. Their chances of getting a power role is 3 out of 7. If they get a read on somebody that makes them think they're a power role then mafia should jump on that. That's why I was surprised at Orange being janitored. I didn't think he was a power role and I commented that mafia must have seen something that I missed. Either mafia did go for a random kill in hopes of getting a power role (3 out of 7 isn't that bad for odds), or they made an educated guess and happened to bag the oracle. Since nobody counter claimed Cat5 yesterday I believed that he was most likely town with the slim possibility that the oracle was janitored. His assertion that Mojo, Shade, and myself are the scum team is what has changed my mind. I can see Mojo as scum and I've got a null read on Shade. I can accept Cat5 tunneling on me too. What I don't buy is that Cat5 honestly believes that we're working together. As I pointed out in my wall of text, there isn't anything to indicate that all three of us are working together. It's a weak argument and I'm kind of surprised that he'd even try and make it.

I see it as a gambit. If somebody claims town power role they're probably not going to be lynched. I have done something similar in a past game, and it worked.

@Category 5 Hurricane is scum. Or he's a town player who's just skimming through posts and isn't putting in enough effort. Here's the start of Cat5's "case" against me. He starts off by claiming that the actions from the janitor indicate that a mafia veteran must be on the mafia team. He then says that myself and Mojoman, who happen to be mafia veterans, also happen to be his top suspects from D1. It takes about 8 hours for Cat5 to actually expand on any suspicions where claims that we're linked together. However, the only person that Mojo insinuated was miller on D1 was Irishman. On D1, neither of us really had anything to do with each other. In fact, I tried to push a Mojo lynch so that we wouldn't no lynch on D1. So, back to the claim that a mafia veteran must be on the mafia team. If that's true, then it isn't me. I've never played this type of mafia setup before and I've never played on Mafia Universe; and the impression I get from everybody else is that MU obsesses over meta, optimal strategy, etc. That's just not how I play the game. I don't make scum gambits on N1 (or N0, because I've never played in a game with an N0). I gather information first; either I'm town and looking for scum or I'm scum and looking for power roles. If I have an ability to hide somebody's role I'm not going to use it on a 1 out of 7 chance. To me, that's a dumb play. Yes, you could get lucky, but you're likely not to. This is another case of Cat5 completely messing up on reading through posts. If you go back and read what I posted, you'll see that I did indeed say I didn't get any kind of read off of Orange that he was a power role. What I said after that in another post was that I must have missed something because scum thought he was a power role. That is not what Cat5 claims I did at all and he should know better. This is also the post where he first tries to tie Mojo and I together. At this point, he still hasn't provided any of his reasoning for what D1 actions were suspicious. On top of that, Cat5 makes what would be a big mistake as town. I've never played in a game before with an oracle, but I still thought of some pretty effective town gambits as soon as I read the role. Smart town aren't going to let one of their power roles just suicide. If we have a choice between lynching a suspicious player or lynching a power role who will clear the suspicious player it's better to lynch the suspicious player. If you truly believe somebody is town, then you SHOULDN'T LYNCH THEM. We lynch SCUM not TOWN. Again, Cat5 is a smart town player he would know better than this. Of course I put doubt on your claim. There's absolutely nothing to back it up. Stating opinion as fact is a sign of scumminess or delusion. And this is just completely made up. Shade convinced me to vote for Mojo on D1 and I pushed for a Mojo lynch so that we wouldn't have a no lynch. So that's pretty much the opposite of working together for Mojo and I. I had to convince Shade to not vote for Cat5 the other day. If he and I were in the scum doc talking with each other I would have convinced him beforehand in there not to vote Cat5 since it's a bad move. So, without Cat5 actually providing evidence I don't know where he's drawing this link between the three of us. Again, stating opinion as fact. So far, the only players to claim I'm suspicious are Cat5 and Irish. Neither have actually given any proof for that suspicion. So, in mafia you can have scum and you can have "town in name only". If all you do is lash out and don't provide any evidence for your attacks you're providing no evidence that you're town and no evidence that your target is scum. FRAYDO made the same mistake. I made posts about him that explained my logic and provided evidence that FRAYDO was doing something scummy. Nobody, not even FRAYDO, disputed those posts and it led us to lynch a town member. In all the Cat5 posts I've quoted, there are a lot of words from him. In all of those words, there are only two pieces of evidence he uses. TWO. One of them, the claim that I changed my stance on Orange, is demonstrably false; in fact it's obviously false if you read the two posts he's referring to. The other one, Mojo suggesting I'm miller, is the only thing that's not completely out of left field and false. However, that's not cooperation. The posts from Mojo are only one way; if anything, I pushed back against his claims and didn't cooperate. Cat5 is trying to build a case against me by pulling stuff out of thin air. That's not how he plays as town. Maybe he's doing the same thing as FRAYDO and just going all offense (which is super scummy), but I doubt that. It's not something I can recall him doing as town before.

How did the editor get worse over the past few years? Just lost a couple hundred words, all the quotes, etc....

So, anybody have anything to add on top of yesterday's discussion?

We'll establish an alliance with the mafia. We always nolynch and they don't NK. It'll be never ending mafia! Jeod and Killing_You will never be free!

I agree with a no lynch for once. Unless the cop is going to claim with a guilty read we shouldn't lynch today.

Wow, now that is good luck for us. I don't see any tactical/strategic reason for mafia not to make the kill, so I'd assume that the doctor was able to block it.

@Category 5 Hurricane If you're really town, how about you ask a mod for somebody to replace you next time instead of volunteering for suicide? Actually, if you're just a player, town, scum, third party, whatever, how about you ask for a replacement? There are plenty of good reasons to doubt your role too. If you really wanted to get out of the game and you were the oracle, you should have claimed cop who investigated FRAYDO on N1. That way you'd be able to clear FRAYDO and draw the NK to you. On top of that, you could have directed the lynch onto somebody you were suspicious of (i.e. me). You didn't choose to do that and I know you're a smart player. Also, your scum team picks show that you haven't been paying attention to the game. I picked FRAYDO on D1 as my main suspect and pushed for his lynch. When it came down to a choice between Mojoman and a nolynch I wouldn't change my vote until Shade convinced me to place a vote on Mojoman with perfectly valid reasons. So, we both voted him and would have lynched him if other players like FRAYDO hadn't jumped onto the nolynch. Yes, you could say "scum gambit", but as scum gambits go that'd be a pretty stupid one. Finally, if you were so convinced that FRAYDO is town, then I challenge you to defend him. Look at my arguments I made against him and provide a rebuttal or two. It might help to clear you a bit more.

I like it so far, gives things a nice change of pace and forces you to mostly focus on people's actions. Speaking of people's actions... If you're town and somebody else is building a case against you, please defend yourself. Don't go all out offense with no defense, that's one of the scummiest things you can do at town. You're not proving anything besides your inability to defend yourself; if you don't have a reason you're willing to share to defend yourself then it usually indicates you had motives hostile to town for doing something.

I wonder if it's FRAYDO, Irish, and Inferno.

If FRAYDO flips scum I think the votes point to Irish as most likely scum afterwards.

This is insane. If you vote for somebody you think is a town power role instead of somebody who is a complete unknown at best you might as well be on the scum team.

@Shade939 If you believe that Cat5 is oracle it's better to vote for his target than him.

That seals it for me. FRAYDO is 100% scum. You haven't done anything today except go "no u".

I'm leaning FRAYDO as scum. I figured his teammates would be Cat5 and then either Irish or Inferno. Not at home so can't post cases for the last three there, but I will in a night post.

@ChopBam Let me know if you need me to summarize my case against FRAYDO better. I'm about 80% convinced he's scum at this point. He really hasn't done anything to argue against my case against him. The only thing he's done is just go on the offense which is typically a scum tactic.

If you're referring to FRAYDO, I certainly don't believe he's town.

Thinking about it, let's assume Orange wasn't the cop. Now the lawyer is vital to the mafia. Going to be very hard to win without him. I could see scum pulling every trick in the book to save him. It's been a long time and I've only had two games with Cat5 recently, but this seems very out of character.

Also, if you're really the oracle, why are you voting yourself and not FRAYDO? If FRAYDO is revealed either way then we're better off with the oracle living.

I didn't get a read off of Orange. Doesn't mean mafia didn't. Either I'm missing something or this is a scumbag gambit. Also, you trying to tie me to Mojo doesn't make sense. After Shade made a more compelling case, I was willing to switch off of FRAYDO to Mojo so that we wouldn't waste D1 with a nolynch. If I was scum what reason would I have for that? If we're scum buddies, that's just dumb. Also, a nolynch on D1 has more benefits for scum than for town.

@Category 5 Hurricane I did get some players mixed up between your plan and Irish's. My major concern with the plan is the possibility that Orange was the cop. Using the janitor on N1 muddies the water quite a bit, and if Orange let slip a tell that he was a power role the mafia have a 1 in 3 chance of getting the cop. So, if Orange was the cop, then there's nobody stopping scum from "serious claiming" that they're the cop in a LYLO situation. On top of that, I feel like it's just going to make discussion even worse. Instead of just starting cases based on suspicion and facts, some players might start them just because they feel that somebody is scum. I'm not saying that it's a terrible plan, I just don't think it's the best option right now. So, are your reasons for the vote simply pushing for a lynch on D1 for a suspicious player and not agreeing with your plan?

inb4 day ends with only my vote...