Sunflower

@Shade939 Consider this. Jeod said that the most basic mafia setup is a doc, cop, two scum, and vanilla. Cat5 admitted that he's not the doc by claiming that his secret ability was BP all along. That means that if Irish was lying, there are only three possibilities for who the doc could have been. Chop straight up said he was vanilla on day 1. Mojo said he was a "safe lynch." The only one we don't know anything about is FRAYDO. Honestly, it makes a ton of sense that Irish is the doctor....

This is a basics game. If you had to scrounge mafia universe just to find a role that you don't even know the name of, that's totally not a basics game thing. I know there's a lot of talk about what roles ilts included or not, but I think it's pretty obvious that this game is mostly basic. I mean as far as we know, almost all of the mafia members just had vanilla roles. It doesn't make sense that ilts would include a "deflector" or "scrambler" or whatever. I mean what's next? Do we have a jester and a beloved princess too? And about Orange thinking his partner wouldn't have to worry about being investigated, he could have just as easily assumed that about you. You weren't really under suspicion at the time at all. Nobody really mentioned you that much as a suspect at the time. When Shade asked me what I thought about you, I pretty much gave a typical "I don't think so but I guess maybe?" type reply, which pretty much suggests I didn't really think so. It wasn't until later on when you made your silence claim and started going after Irish really hard that I started to suspect you. So I could totally see Orange thinking that I would just never investigate you. Besides, if Orange killed me, he would have been giving up. He at least had an outside shot of surviving. If he killed me, that would have been it for him right there.

I also think it's noteworthy how Cat 5 is just mostly ignoring the part about how he could be investigated and attacked at the time. He's one of the smartest players and can't come up with a reason. It's probably just that there isn't a reason because he wasn't attacked last night...

Especially because you didn't know who Irish would be bodyguarding, and you needed him alive because he is your ace in the hole.

Because you knew you wouldn't be able to kill me. As for why you didn't kill Irish, my guess is because you were hoping I would investigate Jeod in order to promote maximum uncertainty by making sure the person that I investigated was killed. And last night, you knew that if you killed someone, the odds were pretty strong that it would be narrowed down against you.

I could see maybe doing it if the teammate looks like they might get voted up soon. But I dunno. Out of the blue just seems like something that's not very sporting. Just my opinion anyway. And part of it for me is that it's Orange too. Friendship is really important to me. It's like the only meaningful thing in my life, so I just tend to be pretty protective of my friends. Like I said, one of the reasons I decided to investigate Orange was because I liked the idea of being able to confirm him as mafia. lol. Not like the only reason. I had a list of players that I thought might be good to clear too because when I was reading up on how to be a cop, that was one of the suggestions I found. But yeah.

I don't have a problem with being called suspicious for normal stuff. The thing that bothers me is the suggestion that I would bus my friend out of the blue just to try to win the game. I don't really want to participate if it's going to be that way.

I literally said in my post that I didn't initially suspect you for those reasons... The reasons I started to suspect you were: 1) When we were lynching Orange, you changed your vote at the last minute to Jeod before changing it back to Orange. We were in a situation where Orange might not have gotten lynched without your vote if I remember it right, especially because I don't think Cat 5 had even voted yet. So that was pretty suspicious in my mind. 2) Orange didn't kill you with his daykill. 3) The stuff I mentioned about possibly going for a mislynch yesterday when a mislynch would have most likely ended the game. Does it really matter though? I mean I told you that I don't suspect you anymore. Why does it matter if I suspected you before? I'm the cop. Isn't it my job to consider all the possibilities with every player?

It's not like I'm saying you were my top suspect. I'm saying that you weren't 100% clear in my mind and there were reasons to consider you a possible suspect. Like I said, I don't suspect you anymore now.

I'm pretty sure the 70/30 comments I was talking about happened the previous day when we were trying to get a nolynch for another cop report. Irish voted for you now though, so I'm pretty sure you're his top suspect now.

I think it does because if I thought Shade was suspicious before, wouldn't it also make sense for Irish to maybe feel the same way?

Not really for me. I mean at first I didn't think Shade could be a suspect because of how gung ho he was on Orange, but the way he acted a couple days ago when he seemed so strongly opposed to nolynch despite the fact that we didn't have any cop reports to go on made me start to wonder if he was trying to end the game with a mislynch. I thought that was pretty suspicious. Obviously I'm not suspicious of him anymore. Mostly because I investigated you and you are town and there's been no credible explanation provided for how you could be targeted by a kill and also have my report fooled at the same time (it's probably because there is no explanation because you didn't actually get attacked last night...). But also because I don't see how he would be so opposed to voting for you if he was a scum.

I guess I just thought that doing the avatar would be like cheating tbh. But yeah.

Yeah one of the other reasons I felt confident enough about Cat 5 being scum now that I think about it is because I remembered Jeod saying something like "I'd bet my life that it's Cat 5" or something like that. I was thinking about the silencing issue the other day because I was worried I might get silenced - but then I realized it'd be pretty easy to give my reports through pics. The only player I couldn't figure out how to represent in a picture was Jeod lol. I had you with a shadow, Cat 5 with an anime girl, and Irish with like an Irish flag or a clover or something. Not sure why I didn't think to actually mention it. I guess I've been too wrapped up in trying to figure out who to investigate.

I think another thing worth wondering is if Cat 5 was really silenced, would he even be allowed to post pics like that? Cause when I was reading up on silencers on the wiki, it made it sound like that player just wouldn't be able to participate that day. Like think about it. What if I was silenced but I was still allowed to post pics. It would be so easy for me to be able to tell everyone who I investigated just by posting pics. Like if I was silenced and investigated Cat 5 as scum - I would just do this: And everyone would know what I meant. Kinda defeats the purpose of silencing me doesn't it?

It's not like I'm a mafia rules master or anything, but I'm pretty sure that it's just not how the game works. Both Irish and Cat 5 seemed to agree that you wouldn't be able to kill and frame at the same time. Oh and another thing. Cat 5 didn't vote for Orange until the last minute on the day he was lynched and he even voted nolynch first. It's pretty convenient that he happened to be silenced too, just so he wouldn't have to make any posts about the debate over Orange aside from some random memes and cute anime girls.

Uhhh... I'm saying that in your scenario where Irish is scum and tried to kill Cat 5 (because Cat 5 says that's what Irish did!) that he couldn't have also targeted me with a freaky cop-foolio ability.

Cat 5 says that someone tried to kill him last night, so Irish couldn't have targeted me.

I don't really disagree that it could have been possible but the point is that he's trying to frame Irish. By saying that Irish could be a godfather, he discourages me from investigating Irish. Like I just said, if I got a Mafia result on Irish, it would force Cat 5 to either do this godfather stuff or say that you're scum. Neither of those are appealing options for him. His jumping on Irish at the beginning of today just proves that point for me. He's been trying to set up Irish and he made his move. I also trust Irish for a few reasons. 1) Irish voted up Orange when I announced my cop report. He had the chance to consider Jeod's alternative scenario of a Sunflower/Shade team but he didn't do it. He was pretty strong with his support of me there and he didn't waver. 2) The plan Irish set up for us pretty much made it impossible for a scum Irish to win the game, barring any day action shenanigans - and if he wanted to do day action shenanigans, he could have easily just killed you last night under the assumption that Cat 5 would try to protect me somehow and then it would be game over. 3) He's continued to consider all the options, saying he thought it was like 60/40 or 70/30 between either Cat 5 or you. 4) His response when I was down in the dumps about having so much responsibility last night seemed pretty genuine to me.

FRAYDO was alive when I investigated him, but I couldn't exactly come out and say so. I investigated him because I remembered a couple times in past games where we mislynched him because of an honest mistake he made like accidentally using the wrong word or something. But at the same time, I think he can be good at reading players. So I thought it would be handy if he came under suspicion that I'd be able to back him up (or at least I could try to steer the votes away from him if it was too early to reveal). The scum would have NKed me that night if I said anything. I was doing calculations in my head, and I decided that the second investigation was the best time to reveal. I was going to do that even if I didn't find a scum that night because I thought the chance that I'd be killed and not be able to reveal any of my reports was too risky. Like I said, I investigated Jeod because I thought he was the most suspicious, and I was so upset because I thought like everything was on me to find the scum and because I thought they'd kill him if I was wrong, so I was crushed about that because I thought I let everyone down. This turn, I investigated Cat 5 because I think he is incredibly suspicious for all the reasons I've stated. He claimed to be silenced in a basics game and it never happened to anyone else. He tried to say that Irish was a godfather before I even tried investigating him. Gee I wonder why he would do that? Maybe it's because he knew that if I investigated Irish and found out he was Mafia that he'd be in the sorry position of trying to convince Irish that you're really the scum and not him. Like even look at what Cat 5 did at the start of today. He claimed BP, and he didn't even consider the idea that you killed him. He immediately jumped on Irish because he's been trying to set up Irish for this move all along. Unlike Irish who's been willing to consider either Cat 5 or you as possible suspects, Cat 5 has only ever considered Irish. He's just really really suspicious.

Well I wouldn't be cool with it. If I was a scum, I'd want to get through it together with my partner.

Like honestly just the idea that I would bus Orange is really pissing me off.

Shade I'm just gonna start off by repeating again in like the strongest possible terms that I would not bus Orange. He's my friend and like the main reason I'm even playing is to keep him company during his surgery recovery. It wouldn't have been just any bus either. It's not like he was going down with the ship. He was pretty much a minorly suspicious null read (which is exactly why I investigated him - also because I thought clearing him as mafia would help the team and because I have trouble telling myself he's scum so I wanted to know for sure). If I bussed there, it would have just been totally out of the blue, and it's kind of offensive to me to even consider I would do that. But to answer your questions: 1) I did the last minute vote on purpose to try to get more information to see how players would react to thinking I wasn't around to vote. 2) I thought the scum would kill Jeod because I figured they would assume he was the person I would investigate because you literally asked me who I thought was the most suspicious player and I said I thought it was Jeod.

Not to mention that if he was a miller, why would he encourage me to investigate him yesterday? He literally asked me to do it and was trying to discourage me from investigating Irish too. He'd also be a miller with BP. And the only player in the whole game to claim being silenced.