Discuss RA1/APB units VS TD/TSR units in W3D

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the video shows RA1 happening in the cold war era.

[Ice]

even though ww2 didnt happen in RA it would still be the cold war than which is before the vietnam war but if that is so than why do the soviets still use propeller planes? by the end of ww2 jet were used everywhere. Although wars advance technology you say in the C&C universe without ww2 the world was forced to advanced much earlier.

 

RA1 *is* WWII in the C&C timeline. The world was changed, our WWII never happened, and RA took its place. Regarding aircraft, the Soviets used propeller planes because a.) they were relatively cheap and could be produced in massive numbers, and b.) they didn't develop their MiG jets (or at least, couldn't field them in sufficient numbers) until later in the war. Now, the most likely reason for certain technologies being more advanced in RA is probably a major economic/industrial boom in the late 30's through the 40's, and the lack of a major war to divert research from other areas.

 

in early ww2 the russians had much better tanks than the germans (also actually portrayed in the game) so without a massacre for the russians to walk to they could easily have achieve jets.

 

"Much better" is debatable at best (Russian tanks are generally known for cramped interiors, and early T-34's had bad internal layouts, poorly-designed turrets and were plagued with transmission failures and other problems), but I digress.

 

So im not sure if in RA the nations advanced faster or if it is set at a much later year or if is set at the year ww2 was supposed to happen.

 

RA1 is set in the 1950's, in a world where WWII as we know it didn't happen, and instead a bigger WWII between Europe and the USSR took place.

 

If the units in the game are supposed to be based of units used in ww2 than many cheap solutions used by the military werent even implemented. The americans loading AA onto their lorries or mortar or those artillery guns that have 2 wheels that infantry have to drag about. Snipers would be a unit commonly used but is missing in RA.

 

Simplistic gameplay; Generally speaking, every unit in a C&C game has a certain role to fill, and you can only have so many different units before each role is filled. It would be impractical to include every single kind of weapon/unit that would have been used in a real-life scenario. The amount of redundancy and overlap would be staggering, and the sidebar would be a total nightmare. Even just picking which tank (out of at least half a dozen or so per faction) to build would be frustrating, never mind the dozens of other combat vehicles (and all the non-combat vehicles as well!).

 

Aside from this, it would have been cool to see some of those things in the cutscenes (snipers, mortars, towed artillery, etc.). Tiberian Dawn had a couple of things in cutscenes which weren't available in the game (Hinds and mobile AA vehicles being notable examples).

 

Im not sure whether to go on C&C logic or real life logic when discussing these things. You say in real life GDI would easily beat soviets but in C&C logic they are both equal.

 

No, they're not. In-game representations have nothing to do with how these units would perform in a real-life scenario. If they existed in real life and faced each other on a real battlefield, the modern GDI Mammoth would almost always beat the now-outdated Soviet one (unless the Soviet crew had some amazing luck or something). Like it or not, 40 years of technological advancement is going to make a difference.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Ice

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The cold war which never happened is between the US and russia, most of it involved things like spying. Looking at the RA cutscenes it look very much like the cold war even though it happened at 1950. I think what RA is trying to portray is that without ww2 the cold war happened and happened faster.

 

During early ww2 the russion tanks had better guns than the germans. Even though german tanks had good armour they lacked the firepower.

 

When i say C&C logic i mean programmitically like taking a unit from the game and pitting it against another in the game. I think the devs could easily do this by taking the mammoth tank from renegade and pitting it against the russian mammoth tank and show us the result.

[Einstein]

I think the devs could easily do this by taking the mammoth tank from renegade and pitting it against the russian mammoth tank and show us the result.

 

The thing is, these tanks are not real. They are balanced by numbers that mean nothing in the real world and are only relevant to performance in the game.

 

The Nod Buggy could defeat all of the units in all of the games if I balanced it to do so.

 

Any unit can be balanced to be however it needs to be, or simply how the dev doing the work wants it to be. Example: OWA wants a nod buggy that beats everything. Well he simply edits the nod buggy to do his bidding and b00m! Buggy of death! It could kill anything in 1 hit if he wanted it to.

 

The answer to this question lies with what version of each that you pit against each other, as the Soviet mammoth has undergone a few balance overhauls since the beginning of APB, and the GDI one in a mod like IA might not be the same balance-wise as the one from 2003 Renegade. A fun test for sure, but really hard to determine which one is "better" because of the circumstance.

 

Im not sure whether to go on C&C logic or real life logic when discussing these things. You say in real life GDI would easily beat soviets but in C&C logic they are both equal.

 

No, they're not. In-game representations have nothing to do with how these units would perform in a real-life scenario. If they existed in real life and faced each other on a real battlefield, the modern GDI Mammoth would almost always beat the now-outdated Soviet one (unless the Soviet crew had some amazing luck or something). Like it or not, 40 years of technological advancement is going to make a difference.

 

I tend to agree with the "40 years of advancement" view. This is simply logical. The GDI rendition of the mammoth would certainly not be any worse than the Soviet mammoth, even if the design somehow miraculously did not advance whatsoever in 40 years. If this were real, and you had a GDI mammoth tank...assuming that you could find a still-functional GWWII-era Soviet mammoth tank, I'd feel certain that the GDI one would win. If for no other reason than 40+ years of rust on the Soviet one might have a slight impact on performance