Guard55 Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 Hey guys! I need some help. I just got banned by Threve for RGH/ESP when I was playing on the Interim Apex server. I was on the server when the map was 'Scorpion_Hunters'. I'm very confused, as I had played on the server previously after October the 30th. I do not hack or condone hacking.I have never hacked in C&C Renegade and never will. I don't know why I got banned. Please help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 58 minutes ago, Guard55 said: Hey guys! I need some help. I just got banned by Threve for RGH/ESP when I was playing on the Interim Apex server. I was on the server when the map was 'Scorpion_Hunters'. I'm very confused, as I had played on the server previously after October the 30th. I do not hack or condone hacking.I have never hacked in C&C Renegade and never will. I don't know why I got banned. Please help. Good Evening @Guard55 You were banned by me today for using RGH on October 30th specifically on the map Urban Warfare @ 4:31 pm You joined GDI and acquired a Stealth Black Hand and camped the roof tops with a ramjet rifle racking up some kills which is ok. The problem however lies in the fact that on top of the building as you'll see in the videos below is you managed to hit darius101 using a Ramjet. However he was not uncloaked in any way judging by the proof provided to us. The EVA radar leading up to him being shot by you do not show him as a Red Dot which would signify that he was being detected by an MSA (Mobile Sensor Array). The closest MSA (only one as seen in the video) was in GDI Base. Me and KTFF put the MSA there to recreate the situation in another server but our SBH did not show up on the radar. Another theory was that a MSA was hiding in a ditch but again we would have shown up on radar and there was no MSA visible in the tunnels in my video. Any unknown MSA placed by GDI still would have shown a red dot on Darius101's HUD (Meaning he was revealed), of which it did not. (If you would like the videos of me testing out the scenario on the other server using the settings that happened during the incident i will be happy to post them and the results.) The Titan in front of Darius in his video was competent enough to also shoot Darius101 when you shot him with your Ramjet Rifle as he was revealed. This leads more credibility to the fact that Darius101 was stealthed as why wouldn't the Titan has just shot darius first. Something of note as well is the fact that when you aim with a SBH and your ramjet you never were decloaked (When you aim down a scope with a SBH you're revealed). Yet you're walking and holding shift along with what seems targeting a little erratic. While not directly incriminating it is something of note. To everyone here, when using RGH or ESP hacking you're able to see everyone's name on your screen and how far away they are. You also hold down shift to aim at the nearest name. Usually the RGH is programed to aim for the head though it is possible to set it to the chest. The videos here are provided proof. *From Darius101 Perspective* The video evidence is based off of 18:00 - 18:59. My Video here shows the map layout, MSA at GDI base (Tested, it was to far out to detect Darius101) along with you questionably aiming as if using RGH. Using all the evidence here, I determined that you used RGH to see darius101 from far away on top of the building and accidently shot him (Even though he was stealthed) while aiming at others through the map. If you can explain to me how you were able to make this shot against someone who was stealthed and undetected by MSA from the top of a building far away, other than random luck i'll gladly test the given scenario, unban you and issue an apology. - Threve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 I've watched the first video of the titan where I shot him. He left a trail of clues. I had been tracking his movement for a while and heard him when he engaged the Hotwire at 17:50. When he left the building he later engaged the Hover MRLS at 18:02, decloaking himself. I could see that he was damaged when I looked at him from the rooftop while he was aiming at the Titan at 18:07. I had tried jumping and getting a clear shot on him but I couldn't due to the angle. He cloaked and since he was aiming at the Titan when he was uncloaked, I deduced that he was going to engage it or had some interest in getting near it. The Titan even fires at him at 18:11, so he knew he was in the area. He picked up the Tiberium Sniper Rifle at 18:16, so I could tell he was still in the area. Later, he picked up the armor at 18:21 leading me to believe that he was still present. I continued looking around that general direction and saw that he had picked up an additional weapon. It was the M4 with the suppressor at 18:29. For a good duration of the match, he was engaging armor as an SBH (Stealth Black Hand) so I knew he was going to engage the Titan. Interestingly enough, at 18:40, the titan swivels his gun away from the SBH and then back to him when played back at 0.5 playback speed. It seems like the Titan knew of his position before I fired. I knew he was going to that area and I took a shot in hopes of hitting him with splash damage. By calculating the speed the SBH runs at, the distance of the M4 from the titan, and his tendencies to engage enemy armor, I hoped I was going to catch him. My intention was to do splash damage so he could be revealed and I can hit him with follow up shots but I ended up hitting him almost directly. I predicted his movement because he left a trail of clues in his wake, studied his behavior, and did some calculations in my head as to where he could be next. I was fortunate enough to have correctly predicted where he would go next. I thought in my head that he would engage the titan and then run for the tunnels at 18:42. For the entirety of the match he was playing Stealth Black Hand which is why you see me walking, holding shift. He had a teammate with him as well, so there were 2 SBHs that were operating in that specific area. I wasn't aiming down using a scope but I was walking. It uses the same animations. In another engagement, I could hear his footsteps beneath me and near the stairwell before he got blown up by Proximity Mines. In the video 'Title 1' I was so cautious because I was afraid he could hear my footsteps above him and I decided to walk and generate the least amount of sound. I didn't know if his teammate was present with him or not. My aim is rather unusual because I don't move my mouse smoothly. I move it very suddenly and very precisely, making it look as if I was snapping to stuff. Looking at 'Title 1', you can see that I'm not aiming at anything in particular, but rather scanning and moving my character sharply one direction and the other. At 0:17, he was engaging armor with the Scorpion Railgun and he revealed himself, which is how I killed him in 'Title 1.' The enemy had made their presence known in the building beneath me before, making me think they were still there. I looked into the distance multiple times because a Nod Commissar and a Black Hand Field Engineer were repeatedly using FAV .50s to get to the buildings across the way. You can see one of these FAV .50s at 18:49 at the back of the wall inbetween both buildings. One more thing to note. If I had an ESP/RGH, I would've engaged those 2 SBHs at 10:10 of the 'Interim Apex' video, or in the very least aimed at them. Same with 13:00 to 13:23. That map in particular is very buggy when it comes to the Radar. Depending on where you stand in the map, things will disappear and reappear at random on the radar. At 10:00, his SBH comrade appears and disappears on the radar. I wouldn't count on the Radar to detect if an MSA has you detected or not on that specific map. There was another GDI MSA near the Nod side of the map, tucked away in the corner near the ramp where infantry could go up or down. I don't know if it was present when I killed him or if it showed up later on in the match. An SBH was revealed near that position later on. I would like to clear up this misunderstanding as much as possible. I wish I had video footage to prove to you what I'm saying is true. If there is anything I can do, or any questions you want to ask me, I am more than willing to cooperate and get this cleared up. I've been playing for 17 years and not once have I ever hacked or cheated. I want to keep playing on IA because I have a lot of fun and it's a great way to relieve some stress and in general have an enjoyable time. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to tell my side of the story using the video footage provided. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 11 hours ago, Guard55 said: my side of the story using the video footage provided. Good Evening Guard55. Thank you for your response. Looking over it, I am still left empty with some of the things provided however. To let everyone know here as there has been some misconception unto how Renegade Hacks (RGH) works. RGH is a program you start before renegade that allows you to see everyone's name (ESP Hacking) , see radar at all times enemy/friendly (including Spectating Moderators which show up as a gray dot on that persons EVA Radar) , and most namely hold down shift to target someone and hit them with whatever weapon you have. Upon targeting a person you will "snap" to that person almost robotically. It is also possible in some versions to remove fog. - You mentioned walking so that the enemy could not hear your footsteps. However that is suspect considering there is a Titan Railgun continuously firing, music, EVA and your general position was revealed earlier anyways after firing a Laser Rifle on the rooftop. Furthermore someone can see you stealthed more so than they can hear your foot steps when they get close enough. - The whole walking topic comes up because holding shift down is what's used to target people in RGH (this can be reprogrammed but by default it's shift) Holding shift is also what's used to walk. You walk when you're using your scope in Renegade. When you use your scope as a SBH you revel yourself.. During my video of "Title 1" you were holding shift down, not de-stealthed. This lends credit to using RGH. (In which you hold down shift to auto aim at people. - @Guard55 You wanted to hit Darius101 with splash damage in that Area and were tracking apparently using what he picked up. Fair enough. The problems however are that between the moment he picked up an M4 to when you shot him was 13 seconds. There is no way in any reality you could have calculated a Stealh Unit to have moved to that specific spot in 13 seconds especially assuming that he is moving there at the same speed. In addition watching from the rooftop and seeing through the fog is hard to believe at that distance without using your scope. While I want to give the benefit of a doubt and say i'm wrong, the holding shift down as stated above does not lend any credit to a random lucky shot. - It makes no sense why you didn't just hit Darius101 when he picked up the M4 instead. His position was right there, the splash damage would have burned him and got you damage along with him being visible.. In the 2nd video "Title 1" you have no problem engaging him 1 v 1. - If the MSA detected Darius101 but glitched than the Titan would have shot Darius101 first as he would have an arrow above him. This is irrelevant though because the MSA was next to GDI Base. Furthermore, no mention above in your statement points to any claim of Darius101 being reveled through an MSA. You state that you were tracking him through picking up stuff and hit him by calculating. Saying this you're also admitting that your kill was not based on Darius101 being on Radar at the time you killed him or being on MSA. - You wanted to hit Darius101 with splash damage yet ended up getting a direct shot on his body/arm for -140 Armor. - As seen in 18:24, there was no GDI MSA present in the Nod Staircase where you pointed out. - No one hacking kills SBH on a consistent far away basis (if at all) unless they make a mistake which is what i believe happened here and why you didn't kill SBH prior. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Threve said: You mentioned walking so that the enemy could not hear your footsteps. However that is suspect considering there is a Titan Railgun continuously firing, music, EVA and your general position was revealed earlier anyways after firing a Laser Rifle on the rooftop. Furthermore someone can see you stealthed more so than they can hear your foot steps when they get close enough. That is true, I walked so that the enemy could not hear my footsteps. There were people directly below me at one point and I was concerned that they could hear my footsteps if I just ran around on the roof. In the event that they pushed past the Proximity mines and tried to engage me, I was prepared to fight them, hoping they didn't know my direct position. It doesn't matter if he can see me before he can hear my footsteps because he wasn't on the same level as me. He was directly below the floor I was on at one point. Visibility isn't the point, but audibility. I could hear him clearly even with the titan engaging Nod troops. I have music turned off. The Titan has lulls in it's firing pattern, so I try to listen in as closely as possible when it has ceased firing. For me, the titan firing isn't even really that loud. The Titan's position relative to me, is farther away than the Nod troops that were previously in the building. 14 minutes ago, Threve said: Holding shift is also what's used to walk. You walk when you're using your scope in Renegade. When you use your scope as a SBH you revel yourself.. During my video of "Title 1" you were holding shift down, not de-stealthed. This lends credit to using RGH. (In which you hold down shift to auto aim at people. I wasn't scoped though. I was only walking. If this were true, then why wasn't I snapping to people while holding shift? It doesn't help that to another player, someone else's aim looks jittery or snappy. The video being in 20 frames per second doesn't help either. I wasn't scoping in. Even if I was scoped in, the mouse sensitivity would be way lower than what is shown on the video. I'm turning my character rather sharply because I'm not scoped in. I wouldn't be able to do that if I was. 31 minutes ago, Threve said: There is no way in any reality you could have calculated a Stealh Unit to have moved to that specific spot in 13 seconds especially assuming that he is moving there at the same speed 31 minutes ago, Threve said: It makes no sense why you didn't just hit Darius101 when he picked up the M4 instead. His position was right there, the splash damage would have burned him and got you damage along with him being visible. I did calculate a stealth unit to move to that area. I managed to hit him directly but that wasn't my goal. I've been to that area before and know how fast an SBH moves. Eyeballing it and doing the calculations in my head, I could determine that. The reason why I didn't shoot him when he picked up the M4 was because I wasn't aiming at that point specifically. By the time I moved my crosshair over I thought he probably moved away behind the tree, which is what happened. I did not feel confident that I was going to hit him and I didn't want to reveal the fact that I was tracking his movement. If I hit him with splash damage, he could hide behind the tree, restealth, and safely relocate away. If I was going to take a shot, I want to be confident that I can do it. During the 13 seconds of movement, I didn't hit him previously when moving in between the chinook and tank wreck because I wanted him out in the open with little chance to run to cover. I had different places in mind of where he could've been and I picked the correct one. I knew for a fact that he had an interest in getting near and engaging that Titan. Unfortunately for me, my follow up shots were poorly placed, but fortunately the Titan was quick to react. 47 minutes ago, Threve said: If the MSA detected Darius101 but glitched than the Titan would have shot Darius101 first as he would have an arrow above him. This is irrelevant though because the MSA was next to GDI Base. Furthermore, no mention above in your statement points to any claim of Darius101 being reveled through an MSA. You state that you were tracking him through picking up stuff and hit him by calculating. Saying this you're also admitting that your kill was not based on Darius101 being on Radar at the time you killed him or being on MSA. I calculated his location and did not use the MSA. There wasn't one in range at the time if I recall correctly. I brought up the MSA because if I did track him using the MSA (which I didn't) the radar is not a reliable way to determine if you are spotted by one on that map. If the MSA had spotted him and the Titan didn't shoot at him first, it could be because the Titan was too preoccupied looking in a different direction or wasn't paying attention properly. There are a lot of different variables and reasons why that could happen. 49 minutes ago, Threve said: As seen in 18:24, there was no GDI MSA present in the Nod Staircase where you pointed out. As mentioned previously, I stated that I don't know if one was present or not at the time of the event. I pointed out that it was likely towards the later part of the match. Looking at the footage it appears to not be present but it definitely showed up later on in the match. 51 minutes ago, Threve said: No one hacking kills SBH on a consistent far away basis (if at all) unless they make a mistake which is what i believe happened here and why you didn't kill SBH prior. The shot I made was not consistent. This was a unique and rare opportunity for me and because I was aware of his previous whereabouts and the direction he was moving in. Thus, I was able to make the shot. On any other day I would not have been able to calculate where he could possibly be if he didn't leave a trail of clues. Him showing his tendencies to engage enemy armor, leaving clues, and me predicting his movement made me actually land the shot. A lot of it is guess work when dealing with a stealthed unit. I just happen to have correctly predicted where he would be. The video posted above is how the map looks to me and what things look like from my perspective. At 1:20, looking at the general area, the fog doesn't affect visibility at all from the rooftop to the buildings across the way. If there are any questions or any testing that wants to be done, I'm more than willing to help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 5, 2019 Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 @Guard55 The images below on my end are on the server. (Fog is only activated on the server due to scripting). I'm going to honest. I don't believe what you're telling me and the claims you're saying do not add up for me. Between measuring 13 seconds and "predicting" the exact location of Darius101 to the holding shift down to use RGH but claiming it's to be silent (You make the same amount/volume of noise walking just not as quickly. You were also walking back and forth.. if you really wanted to be silent then stay still.) I don't buy it. However.. You have been very courteous, responsive and kind in your responses and i really do appreciate that alot. As such I think me and you can meet in the middle. What i'm offering here is instead of being permanently banned 17 hours ago, Guard55 said: I wish I had video footage to prove to you what I'm saying is true. - You record every moment you play for 5 months on the IA server. If I request footage from a time that you played in this time frame you'll give it to me no questions asked. - You must keep the footage from your gameplay for 5 days. (This means if it's November 13th and I ask for a clip from November 10th. You should have it. If it's Nov 13th and I ask for a clip from November 1st, it's my fault and you don't need to have it/you can delete it if you want so your computer doesn't get massively full.) - No weird tomfuckery if i ask for a video or a specific moment from a match. This means no "editing" or "cutting" of clips to mask up a time period. No editing to skip a match you were in or anything of the sort. - After 5 Months are up (April 5th, 2020). You have a clean slate and are no longer required to fulfill any of this anymore. However if I ask for a video of you playing on April 1st, 2020 and you don't have it. You realize this fails to complete your end of the deal. - If I ask for a video you have 5 days to produce the video/match requested. The time begins from when I ask you and you acknowledge. The requests from me will be sent from W3DHub.com if I send anything. I will also notify you in-game if I see you. - Failure to fulfill any of these requirements/ you cannot produce the asked video (unless special circumstances arise like Server Crash, Corrupted Video) will result in the return of a Ban with full understanding. The idea here is that it'll be impossible to use RGH as you do not know if there will be a moment i'm asking to see you play. It will furthermore give you an ability to play on our server without me constantly spectating you or assuming something. It also offers a fair chance for a 5 month probationary period where after which you have a clean slate. Assuming you accept and play, I may ask for a video twice, everyday or maybe not even ask at all for a whole entire 3 months. If "Corrupted Video" excuses seem to happen frequently then that's going to be an issue. I can see you have a video recording program and get pretty good FPS as it is so I don't imagine this will be to harsh on your side. I think that this is the fairest agreement for both of us and I do believe in second chances. If you accept my terms and believe it to be fair please type "I agree" somewhere in your response (separately) and i'll be happy to have you unbanned. Do be aware that means from here on out you'll need to record your gameplay or I have the right to ban you. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 5, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2019 I appreciate the kind gesture and words. If it's not overstepping in any way, do you think it would be possible if a higher up can review the plan? I am quite limited as to how many videos I can record. Just a 10 minute clip will eat up 3 gigabytes. Imagine a full size 1 hour and 45 minute video of a single match. That would be beyond my capacity and would reduce the amount of time I can play on the server. Playing everyday will be impossible unless I upload every single match on Youtube as soon as it ends. Knowing Youtube, an hour and 45 minute video will take twice as long. I understand the need for evidence and to show that I'm not hacking but this will only actively discourage me from playing. To record every single match for 5 months would put a serious strain on the already limited hard drive space I have. I understand that I can delete a video after 5 days but if I play multiple matches in a row, I don't know what to do. I'm not declining the offer, but I'm just wondering if it were possible to iron out the details. I'm more than willing to come to some sort of an agreement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Guard55 said: I am quite limited as to how many videos I can record. Just a 10 minute clip will eat up 3 gigabytes. To record every single match for 5 months would put a serious strain on the already limited hard drive space I have. I understand that I can delete a video after 5 days but if I play multiple matches in a row, I don't know what to do. I'm not declining the offer, but I'm just wondering if it were possible to iron out the details. I'm more than willing to come to some sort of an agreement. Good Morning @Guard55. I see your concern and what you're saying. I have however noticed that your quality from the video above extends all the way up to 1440p which is incredibly high quality for recording. That being said to help you with your problem - I recommend recording 360p. This will significantly reduce the size of your files to something a lot more manageable and (the quality) is fully acceptable by me. Unless you're playing for 48 hours straight I believe this will solve your problem. - I'm willing to say you have to keep matches you played for 3 days instead of 5. This will mean every 3 days you can delete earlier footage if you'd like. All the other terms otherwise, I do not wish to change (unless overridden by a staff moderator or above). *Update* - Would you be open to using Twitch to Stream? This would ensure you didn't have to save videos or bother uploading them to youtube. You can also record in better quality. 21 hours ago, Guard55 said: I appreciate the kind gesture and words. If it's not overstepping in any way, do you think it would be possible if a higher up can review the plan? I've notified Pushwall and Chopbam on discord (Two long time staff moderators on here) to weigh in on the options I've given you and give their take. If there is another staff moderator you wish to inform please feel free to tag them. Edited November 6, 2019 by Threve Twitch Update 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 Good afternoon @Threve I thank you for the kind gesture and even going as far as to modify the deal to make it easier and more manageable along with notifying other staff to review. I went to sleep last night and thought some more about this. I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the 54 second long video called 'Title 1'. The claim being made here is that I'm scoping in and still remaining stealthed. My counter to that is that I'm walking. Looking back on the video, you can actually see my character go from an aiming animation to a walking animation. The only way to return to the aiming animation is by shooting, hitting 'C' to crouch or by scoping. You wouldn't return to the walking animation if you were still presently scoping with the ramjet rifle or any weapon with a scope. You can see that at 7 seconds, I crouch not scope in. If the claim is that I was walking and then scoping and then un-scoped, you wouldn't immediately return to the walking animation then. The aiming animation would still linger for quite a long time. 20 hours ago, Threve said: but claiming it's to be silent (You make the same amount/volume of noise walking just not as quickly. You were also walking back and forth.. if you really wanted to be silent then stay still.) I never made the claim that I wanted to be silent, but to reduce my audibility and sound. Regardless of the volume in this case, walking footsteps will still be harder to detect than running. The reason why I walk and not stand still, is because if someone is aware of my presence I don't want to take the risk of standing still and letting them get a clean headshot on me or even a lucky headshot. I had been sniping in that spot for a good deal of the match and I have no doubt in my mind that Nod was aware of where I was. Even If I am stealthed, someone could try to prefire or shoot the locations that I was previously standing in. A good player would prefire or even suppress the area I've been firing from. Another reason brought up before, is that I don't know if the other SBH and Nod troops are still directly beneath me or not and I'm trying to limit my audibility. One reason I haven't brought up yet, is that I'm stealthed and scoping in would bring me out of stealth. To remedy my inability to scope and my desire to be accurate, I walk. Running at full speed would affect my aim if I'm trying to shoot without the scope. Lag is also a factor that would impact me if I were running rather than walking. 22 hours ago, Threve said: When you use your scope as a SBH you revel yourself.. During my video of "Title 1" you were holding shift down, not de-stealthed. Shift walking doesn't de-stealth you. Also, If I were using an RGH/ESP as is claimed, then what am I locking on to? Who am I locking on to? The video doesn't demonstrate this. There are times when It appears I'm looking straight at the GDI base, when I'm really looking at the part of the roof near the stairwell. The snap movement is me checking my surroundings and seeing if there are any enemies incoming from the Nod base and if anybody is on or near the adjacent buildings. Judging someone's aim from another perspective isn't reliable in this case, simply because my aim is being processed serverside as opposed to clientside. My aim looks choppy when viewed by another person, whereas it looks smooth on my screen. If the claim still stands about me being scoped in while still being stealthed, I wouldn't be able to move my aim that fast due to the sensitivity level from being scoped in. If the claim is that I'm using a soft aimbot, going back to my previous point who am I locking onto? If the claim is players, how is that determined? The video doesn't show that. Going back to the video that Darius provided, it doesn't demonstrate or show me snapping to him. It cannot be determined conclusively that I made the shot using RGH. At that point, it becomes conjecture. Please note, this post is not a rejection of your offer but I'm merely trying to lay down all the cards on the table and look at the facts. To accept the offer would be an admission of guilt. If I continued playing on the server with the equivalent of parole, people will look and treat me differently. They would believe I'm a filthy hacker, a criminal. I am not guilty, I am very much innocent in this. I'm not convinced that there's enough evidence to warrant a perma-ban. The only thing we have at this moment, is conjecture. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 6, 2019 Report Share Posted November 6, 2019 21 hours ago, Guard55 said: I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the 54 second long video called 'Title 1'. The claim being made here is that I'm scoping in and still remaining stealthed. My counter to that is that I'm walking. Looking back on the video, you can actually see my character go from an aiming animation to a walking animation. The only way to return to the aiming animation is by shooting, hitting 'C' to crouch or by scoping. You wouldn't return to the walking animation if you were still presently scoping with the ramjet rifle or any weapon with a scope. You can see that at 7 seconds, I crouch not scope in. If the claim is that I was walking and then scoping and then un-scoped, you wouldn't immediately return to the walking animation then. The aiming animation would still linger for quite a long time. I never made the claim that I wanted to be silent, but to reduce my audibility and sound. Regardless of the volume in this case, walking footsteps will still be harder to detect than running. @Guard55 I do not find enough support in your claim for a couple reasons. - When you use RGH you hold down Shift. As noted earlier you did not destealth which means you were not looking down your scope but instead holding shift. You then snap 7 times in the video "title 1". Consistent with how RGH is used while holding down shift (Walking Animation). I have seen people aim before with Rifles and they do not appear to snap multiples times as you did when sniping or lag so much that it looks like what you did. - You claim that you wanted to be silent. You also wanted to move around and not be in one location which is fair. But after playing for 17 years as stated above you know as well as I do that crouching makes you more quiet. Why didn't you crouch instead of holding down shift? I decided to make sure I was not lying and tested it out for myself. I went to the rooftop where you were and the walk sounds were the same (footstep concrete). Just to prove that crouching is more quiet, I took the audio and input it into Audacity upon which I found that walking was measuring 31 on audacity playback level (Measured by the blue lines on the top right that show the loudest that noise level achieved that was played back) and 45.5 for crouching. (A higher number indicates a more silent sound) With music (other people have theirs on), the titan railgun blasts, you having already revealed you were there by firing at darius101 earlier, EVA announcements, server sounds I find it a bit hard to believe that you were walking to hide your sound. However if you were that specific about hiding your sound then someone who played for 17 years should know that crouching reduces your sound alot more. It also does not affect aiming up there as i've tested out. If you see an enemy you can stand up (not making any sound) and fire or aim. - I don't buy that you were able to calculate darius101 through measuring how fast he would run while stealthed, where he would go, knowing he would not run zig zagged, knowing he wouldn't go to a building to properly engage a vehicle, hitting him on the first shot for -140 armor. Not incrimidating but for such an incredible shot you didn't even mention it or were surprised by it. Literally made the shot of the year and nothing from your end. On 11/5/2019 at 4:23 PM, Guard55 said: That is true, I walked so that the enemy could not hear my footsteps. There were people directly below me at one point and I was concerned that they could hear my footsteps if I just ran around on the roof. In the event that they pushed past the Proximity mines and tried to engage me, I was prepared to fight them, hoping they didn't know my direct position. - You've shot 3 times before on the roof revealing your position (Using your Firefly Rifle Earlier, Hitting Darius101 in his video and also killing him in Title 1). You have proximity mines protecting you, you are a SBH. yet you're worried about someone finding your position on the rooftop based on your footsteps while they (would be) downstairs running up to go fight you? On 11/5/2019 at 4:23 PM, Guard55 said: I wasn't scoped though. I was only walking. If this were true, then why wasn't I snapping to people while holding shift? - You were in the first 11 seconds of "title 1". You do not have to be scoped in to use RGH. Just holding down shift to whatever you want to target. 21 hours ago, Guard55 said: If the claim is that I'm using a soft aimbot, going back to my previous point who am I locking onto? If the claim is players, how is that determined? The video doesn't show that. - Using RGH (aimbot) allows you to look at players through the map and shows their names on your screen. It was determined by you targeting with the same consistency of RGH in "title 1" along with all the other points I talked about here. It was speculated at first when you shot Darius 101 directly while he was a SBH 13 seconds after he picked something up. This is not Conjecture. This is you telling me that your shot was based on a calculation of where someone went within 13 seconds of being invisible and directly hitting them along with me spectating you immediately afterwards doing things that were in direct connection to using RGH. On 11/5/2019 at 3:12 AM, Guard55 said: I wish I had video footage to prove to you what I'm saying is true. In order to prevent actual conjecture. I would like to unban you and have you twitch stream your games or video them according to what I said above. 21 hours ago, Guard55 said: To accept the offer would be an admission of guilt. If I continued playing on the server with the equivalent of parole, people will look and treat me differently. They would believe I'm a filthy hacker, a criminal. I am not guilty, I am very much innocent in this. I'm not convinced that there's enough evidence to warrant a perma-ban. I believe you are guilty still. You believe you're innocent. It would be irrelevant what someone else on the server thinks as you would have your game recorded proving them wrong. If you were to be harassed please notify me and I will take care of it immediately. If you are concerned of this being visible in the future I can talk about having this whole topic hidden or deleted. Noise.mp3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Threve said: When you use RGH you hold down Shift. As noted earlier you did not destealth which means you were not looking down your scope but instead holding shift On 11/5/2019 at 3:05 PM, Threve said: The whole walking topic comes up because holding shift down is what's used to target people in RGH (this can be reprogrammed but by default it's shift) I'm holding down shift yes, so that means I'm not looking down my scope. I don't know how RGH works but going on what you said previously, someone can just rebind the button to something other than shift. Just because I'm using shift, which just so happens to be the default button for a hacking program, does not mean it's an indication that I'm hacking. That would mean that literally anyone who shift walks could be a hacker. The video does not demonstrate that I'm hacking. Once again, that's conjecture and speculation. 12 minutes ago, Threve said: I have seen people aim before with Rifles and they do not appear to snap multiples times as you did when sniping or lag so much that it looks like what you did. People aim differently from others. That's just how I aim. It's not an indication of an aimbot or an RGH because there hasn't been any proof of me snapping to players. The video does not demonstrate that I'm hacking. The only point made so far regarding this is that I snap my character around a lot. That's just how I move. Once again, that's not an indication of hacking. 30 minutes ago, Threve said: You claim that you wanted to be silent. You also wanted to move around and not be in one location which is fair. But after playing for 17 years as stated above you know as well as I do that crouching makes you more quiet. Why didn't you crouch instead of holding down shift? 45 minutes ago, Threve said: However if you were that specific about hiding your sound then someone who played for 17 years should know that crouching reduces your sound alot more. It also does not affect aiming up there as i've tested out. If you see an enemy you can stand up (not making any sound) and fire or aim. I have indeed played for 17 years. It's simple, there is a wall in the way if I crouched. A good compromise between running and crouching would be walking. Walking is also a good compromise if I was also actively looking for targets and wanting to engage them almost instantly. After 17 years of playing, I would know that crouching near head level at a wall and firing is a good way to cause splash damage to yourself if the server thinks my projectile hit the wall instead, even though clientside I clearly hit over the wall. You can see that a lot with rocket launchers, tib auto rifles, etc. Sometimes, depending on how high the wall is, the gun may not even fire at all. In this case, the gun doesn't fire at all depending on the angle. Considering where the target was relative to my position, being crouched will cause the ramjet rifle to not fire. Testing it out in singleplayer will demonstrate this. The argument about standing up after crouching to fire falls flat when you realize that split seconds are precious to engaging a target. It also falls flat when you realize that there is sometimes a considerable delay in firing, if you tried firing but the wall was in the way, when you stand up after crouching. Having both those delays would seriously impact my ability to engage enemies. There were times where I had to jump on top of the wall precariously just to fire down on an enemy on the street, for fear of hitting the wall because the server said so, or just not having a clear line of sight because the wall is in the way. So yes, it doesn't seem to affect aiming but it certainly affects the ability to fire my weapon. I wouldn't leave it up to random chance to be able to fire my weapon effectively (or fire at all). 1 hour ago, Threve said: I don't buy that you were able to calculate darius101 through measuring how fast he would run while stealthed, where he would go, knowing he would not run zig zagged, knowing he wouldn't go to a building to properly engage a vehicle, hitting him on the first shot for -140 armor. Not incrimidating but for such an incredible shot you didn't even mention it or were surprised by it. Literally made the shot of the year and nothing from your end. Regardless if you buy it or not, I made the shot by calculation. My statement has yet to be disproven. The video still doesn't show conclusive evidence of me snapping or demonstrating the use of RGH. My intention was to hit the area where he could be generally, with splash damage, but instead I hit him directly. With the previous engagements that I've had with him, he doesn't seem to zig zag at all when trying to disengage. He tends to run to one direction and jump multiple times. He just engages a vehicle regardless of cover as seen in the video. Sometimes he makes an attempt to get into cover, but he'll still take significant splash damage from a vehicle if the vehicle fires back at him. He engaged enemy vehicles using a railgun out in the open in 'Title 1'. Once again, the video doesn't show me snapping to him or demonstrate the use of RGH. It was a pretty amazing shot and it stunned me after the engagement ended. I was awestruck at the fact that I landed that shot, that by the time I had recovered, Darius already wrote the word 'HACKER' in all caps. I don't like to tilt players or cause a scene. If I ragged on him immediately after getting accused of being a hacker, that's just being rude and it's completely uncalled for. Hence why I chose not to say anything at all. The fact that I landed the shot speaks for itself. No amount of words could describe how amazing it was. I exclaimed in real life, along the lines of "OOOOOHHHHHH!", but didn't feel the need to do so in game and felt that it would be uncalled for and asking for a provocation. The last thing I would want to do is cause a scene or make an enemy. 1 hour ago, Threve said: - You've shot 3 times before on the roof revealing your position (Using your Firefly Rifle Earlier, Hitting Darius101 in his video and also killing him in Title 1). You have proximity mines protecting you, you are a SBH. yet you're worried about someone finding your position on the rooftop based on your footsteps while they (would be) downstairs running up to go fight you? I am aware that they know that I'm in the building, but I don't think they knew specifically what floor and exactly my position on that floor as they pushed the stairs. I think they thought I would relocate to try and hide on a different floor or even ambush them considering how I revealed my position previously. I was worried because the Hotwire died and someone kept repeatedly running into the proximity mines. The stairwell leading to the various floors was mined, each floor up. Someone kept repeatedly running into those mines, thus allowing him to get closer and closer. It came to a point where he even triggered the proximity mines that were placed near the entrance to the roof. Somehow, he still survived and was directly below me. The other times someone ran into the mines, someone died. I don't recall if it was darius or the other SBH or a different Nod member that I'm not aware of, that died repeatedly from the mines. He wasn't killed this time and I could hear his character shout in pain from the afterburn damage. I've seen people deliberately clear as many mines as possible with their own bodies, so that their teammates could proceed unharmed. I didn't know if he had friends with him or not on the floor with him, directly beneath me. All I know is that last I saw, there were at least 2 SBHs. Even if he pushed the roof, he would still have to try and find me because I managed to conceal my position again. I still would not take the risk of running around, making it obvious my exact position on the roof. He was quite literally directly beneath me, because of how loud I could hear his footsteps and the pain noise. He made the choice to not push the roof, not me. 2 hours ago, Threve said: Using RGH (aimbot) allows you to look at players through the map and shows their names on your screen. It was determined by you targeting with the same consistency of RGH in "title 1" along with all the other points I talked about here. It was speculated at first when you shot Darius 101 directly while he was a SBH 13 seconds after he picked something up. How was it determined? I would like to see proof of how my targeting and aiming is the same consistency of RGH. I missed a fair amount of times in Darius' video. When I engaged him as a Black Hand Laserchaingunner, I suppressed the ramp to dissuade him from going up it. He still went for it though, allowing me to hit him enough. The videos don't show me aiming at players through the map. In fact, the video shows me turning my back to two SBHs. How would you know if their names showed up on my screen or not? Once again, which players were being targeted by me? All you see is me looking around, not even aiming at things specifically at some points. It ends up being conjecture and speculation. 2 hours ago, Threve said: This is not Conjecture. This is you telling me that your shot was based on a calculation of where someone went within 13 seconds of being invisible and directly hitting them along with me speculating you immediately afterwards doing things that were in direct connection to using RGH. That in turn, becomes conjecture. As a result of it being conjecture and speculation, it's not a valid point. Speculation and conjecture is not enough to ban someone. There is no video evidence of me using RGH. That hasn't been demonstrated or proven yet. It is taking my statement and making a speculation that I am guilty while not proving that I really am, also not disproving my previous statement. The only way to prove that I am guilty is if there was concrete clear evidence, not conjecture or speculation. One could speculate as much as they want, but at the end of the day the only way to prove a crime is with concrete evidence. 2 hours ago, Threve said: In order to prevent actual conjecture. I would like to unban you and have you twitch stream your games or video them according to what I said above. I would love to be unbanned. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defendant. How would recording videos after the fact, prevent conjecture that already exists since the 30th of October? How would it retroactively disprove something that hasn't been proven yet? You have to prove that I am guilty, not think that I am guilty. That has yet to be done. 2 hours ago, Threve said: I believe you are guilty still. You believe you're innocent. It would be irrelevant what someone else on the server thinks as you would have your game recorded proving them wrong. If you were to be harassed please notify me and I will take care of it immediately. If you are concerned of this being visible in the future I can talk about having this whole topic hidden or deleted. I'm not concerned about this being visible in the future, I'm glad that it's public actually. You believe I'm guilty but have yet to demonstrate that. You don't believe anything I've said so far from my testimony but have yet to disprove anything I've said. You refuse to believe my statements without having any evidence to disprove them, beyond just deciding they are false. I'm willing to cooperate and continue trying to find a resolution in all this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTFF Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I am in agreement with Threve. Do we know with absolute certainty that you were cheating? Well of course not. Which is why we are leaving the door open a bit. As an alternative to recording games, and storing them. Do a live stream via Twitch or YouTube, and provide us with the link to your channel. Use this each time you play to fulfill the above proposal. If you choose to do that, and want to keep the link private just PM Threve the information. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 7, 2019 Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Guard55 said: You don't believe anything I've said so far from my testimony but have yet to disprove anything I've said. You refuse to believe my statements without having any evidence to disprove them, beyond just deciding they are false. @Guard55 Thank you for your responses. They are well thought out and thorough. However, On 11/5/2019 at 4:23 PM, Guard55 said: That is true, I walked so that the enemy could not hear my footsteps. There were people directly below me at one point and I was concerned that they could hear my footsteps if I just ran around on the roof. Quote It doesn't matter if he can see me before he can hear my footsteps because he wasn't on the same level as me. He was directly below the floor I was on at one point. Visibility isn't the point, but audibility. 17 hours ago, Guard55 said: How was it determined? I would like to see proof of how my targeting and aiming is the same consistency of RGH. With RGH you hold down shift to hit someone. - You shot Darius101 directly after he was stealthed through the time span of 13 seconds (while predicting that he would pick up a weapon that is hard to see through the fog above a tall building.) Also saying that you calculated he would run there does not add up as there are a nearly infinite amount of places he could have ran in the time span. He could have typed something, changed his mind, went into the buildings to better engage the titan. Claiming you studied his offensive tactics which lead you to believe he would be in that exact position is not enough for me. - in the video Title 1 you snapped your aiming 7 times consistent with how you use RGH to aim. - In this video Title 2 you hit PXD2000 with a ramjet while holding down shift (you previously mentioned you hold down shift to be more quiet) and landed a headshot without using your scope. - After hitting Darius101 in the video Title 1 (Time remaining 54:50) a minute later you decide that running along side where you were sniping is a better idea than walking. (Title 2 shows Time Remaining as 53:50). This is backwards to your idea of walking to stay quiet and makes your claim seem fabricated. (Let it be known that my message to Darius101 is in reference to Guard55 firing on him in the video Title 1 while Darius101 was destealthed and not in use in my argument at all.) 17 hours ago, Guard55 said: I would love to be unbanned. The burden of proof is on the prosecution, not the defendant. How would recording videos after the fact, prevent conjecture that already exists since the 30th of October? How would it retroactively disprove something that hasn't been proven yet? You have to prove that I am guilty, not think that I am guilty. That has yet to be done. - As said earlier, you have been very kind and responsive and I wish to go against my thoughts and have you record your games to prevent anything like this happening in the future. Instead of me constantly spectating you, I would like you to prove me wrong by filming showing that you don't use RGH for a time period which i believe to be fair. I have no reason after watching you play from your viewpoint to suspect that you use RGH. Quote If I continued playing on the server with the equivalent of parole, people will look and treat me differently. They would believe I'm a filthy hacker, a criminal. I am not guilty, I am very much innocent in this. I can see the passion exhibited by you almost to the point of it being considered a court case. However unlike one, I do not hold you recording future games as an admission of guilt. No one here has said otherwise and if you do, please do not hold your peace. Any harassment from other players relating to will and would be dealt with swiftly. Quote The only thing we have at this moment, is conjecture. We now have 3 different videos pointing to things exactly consistent with RGH and a shot against a SBH that you claim to have been "Calculated". You make a point of heavily calling the things I have conjecture, yet it is you with no video evidence on your end along with points that are only adding up to pure luck (along with inconsistency when explaining why you were walking). Instead of permanent banning for this I am offering you the chance to video record, stream your games or whatever recording method would work for you to avoid conjecture in the future. I mean, this is what you would want right? To avoid conjecture? 17 hours ago, Guard55 said: Regardless if you buy it or not, I made the shot by calculation. My statement has yet to be disproven. The video still doesn't show conclusive evidence of me snapping or demonstrating the use of RGH. Using the above points ahead I have determined that you were using RGH. I would like for you to prove me wrong by recording your footage in the future and continue to play on our server. I believe this is the best solution to both of our arguments and am open to anything else you suggest otherwise. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2019 I appreciate the kind words and the responses. I am grateful that you are being patient and trying to come to a resolution. 38 minutes ago, Threve said: Also saying that you calculated he would run there does not add up as there are a nearly infinite amount of places he could have ran in the time span. He could have typed something, changed his mind, went into the buildings to better engage the titan. Claiming you studied his offensive tactics which lead you to believe he would be in that exact position is not enough for me. It's true that he could've gone literally anywhere else, but made the strange decision of remaining out in the open and in such close proximity to the Titan. It's been established that he likes to engage enemy vehicles regardless of his position. I've iterated my points before but looking back on the other posts, my statements are still being called into question, despite them not being disproven. What leads my previous statements to disbelief? What is unbelievable about them? That has yet to be demonstrated. He didn't type something, he didn't change his mind, etc. Should have, would have, could have. The reality is, his movements were easy to predict because of the clues he left behind. He already demonstrated his desire to engage armor and even looked at the titan. When you understand the plan and motivation of an enemy it's not hard to find where he could be next. As a result of this assertion, I was able to make the shot. He made his choices, not me. 1 hour ago, Threve said: in the video Title 1 you snapped your aiming 7 times consistent with how you use RGH to aim. It doesn't prove that I'm using RGH though. How is it consistent with RGH? What am I snapping to? The video doesn't show that. It becomes speculation. It still doesn't show me snapping to players or to anything. It is me moving my character sharply because that's how I play. 1 hour ago, Threve said: In this video Title 2 you hit PXD2000 with a ramjet while holding down shift (you previously mentioned you hold down shift to be more quiet) and landed a headshot without using your scope. It was a pretty good shot, but not impossible. I lined up my crosshair so that his head would walk into it. Below is why I was shift walking. Running along would make it harder for me to line up my crosshair. I could still make the shot while running but running would still increase my chances of missing. I didn't want to risk missing my shot. Since I'm an SBH, using the scope will cause me to go out of stealth. I don't want to squander my opportunity by revealing myself before I shoot. 23 hours ago, Guard55 said: Running at full speed would affect my aim if I'm trying to shoot without the scope. 1 hour ago, Threve said: After hitting Darius101 in the video Title 1 (Time remaining 54:50) a minute later you decide that running along side where you were sniping is a better idea than walking. (Title 2 shows Time Remaining as 53:50). This is backwards to your idea of walking to stay quiet and makes your claim seem fabricated. It's not a fabricated claim and it's not backwards to my idea. It isn't until PXD2000 showed up at 11 seconds in 'Title 2' that I grow suspicious and wonder if there are any possible enemies hiding beneath me or if any SBHs had accompanied him out of the base. I walk not only to make myself less audbile but it also helps when lining up my crosshairs. You can't get that same precision while running. I made a big emphasis on remaining less audible because at Title 1, start of the video, it's been 15 to 16 seconds since I've shot and killed PXD2000. I snap towards the road leading from the Nod base because I just killed PXD2000 coming out of it and was checking to see if anyone else was going to come out. 31 seconds elapse before seeing Darius engage armor. After killing him, he was who I was concerned about since he was operating in the area. After enough time had elapsed and no one had pushed the rooftop, made noise, etc. I decided that Nod would be more concerned about engaging enemy armor that are actively engaging them in close proximity to their base, than engaging a single GDI SBH on a rooftop with a ramjet rifle. Darius lends credence to this because his main focus is on the enemy armor. It's why I left the rooftop at at 22 seconds in 'Title 1'. The vantage point no longer served it's purpose and I moved on to the GDI vehicles' position to engage enemy troops in the Nod base and help assist with the siege. My purpose at that point would be to kill as many engineers, technicians, or anti-vehicle infantry as possible so that the vehicles can do their job and destroy the base. It became so obvious that we were going to win, that I began to use explosives to start hitting the buildings at point. 2 hours ago, Threve said: However unlike one, I do not hold you recording future games as an admission of guilt. It would, however, be an admission of defeat which in itself can be interpreted as an admission of guilt. 2 hours ago, Threve said: Instead of me constantly spectating you, I would like you to prove me wrong by filming showing that you don't use RGH for a time period which i believe to be fair. I have no reason after watching you play from your viewpoint to suspect that you use RGH. How can I prove you wrong if you haven't proven that I'm guilty yet? 2 hours ago, Threve said: We now have 3 different videos pointing to things exactly consistent with RGH and a shot against a SBH that you claim to have been "Calculated". You make a point of heavily calling the things I have conjecture, yet it is you with no video evidence on your end along with points that are only adding up to pure luck (along with inconsistency when explaining why you were walking). The videos still do not prove with certainty 100%, with no doubt, that there is guilt. You speculate that I'm guilty. It is not my position, as the defendant, to prove innocence with videos. It is the job of the prosecution to prove guilt with the videos. It still has not been proven that there is guilt. Presumption of innocence still applies. As explained above, it is not pure luck. I've already explained and demonstrated my tactics and reasoning using the same videos that have been provided. Regardless if you believe my tactics or not, there is still no decisive proof that there is guilt. My tactics still have not been disproven or countered. We are left with only conjecture which is not enough to warrant a ban. 2 hours ago, KTFF said: Do we know with absolute certainty that you were cheating? Well of course not. Since there is no absolute certainty that means there is still doubt. That means guilt has not been proven decisively. If guilt has not been proven decisively, presumption of innocence. One cannot ban someone simply on thinking they are guilty. One must know they are guilty and prove they are guilty. 2 hours ago, Threve said: Using the above points ahead I have determined that you were using RGH. I would like for you to prove me wrong by recording your footage in the future and continue to play on our server. I believe this is the best solution to both of our arguments and am open to anything else you suggest otherwise. If it somehow helps my case, I have a 10 minute long video of me playing on November the 2nd on Interim Apex. That is 2 days after the incident, and 2 days before my ban. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTFF Posted November 8, 2019 Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 Happy Friday. While I appreciate the open discussion, and am very grateful for everyone keeping the conversation civil, this where I say we are beating a dead horse. We have provided what we consider a very fair compromise, and are holding to that. Hope everyone has a good weekend. :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2019 (edited) Happy Friday. I don't think it's much to ask for someone to at least review the points that I've made previously. I don't see how a dead horse is being beaten If I am still willing to clear things up, make my points and statements, and cooperate. I'd say it is more akin to refusing to acknowledge or listen to my points. If my points are being looked at, then it should be courteous if someone would at least acknowledge them. I was permanently banned with no prior warning based on suspicion of guilt. Guilt has not been established or proven with absolute certainty. That itself has been admitted. If that is the case, then there would be no need for the defendant to have to prove anything. It's not fair to ban someone simply on suspicion alone. No one had approached me previously with the information. I would have been perfectly open to discussing the matter as much as possible and clear up any misunderstandings. If there was concern, why wait until the 4th of November to ban me for an incident that occurred on the 30th? Regardless of this, I still provided reasons for the way I act in the video. My points have not been disproven, only dismissed or ignored. No reason has been given for my points' dismissals. Show me how I'm snapping to players, show me how there is guilt. Not just for my sake but for other players. I want this to be as thoroughly explained as possible so that people reading this may gain insight on both parties. An unhealthy precedent would be set if people are banned simply on suspicion alone, with no concrete evidence to back up that suspicion. I have addressed every single point that has been brought up and provided counterpoints, but my counterpoints have only been dismissed and not countered. Some are dismissed for disbelief only. Nothing other than disbelief is given. Why the disbelief? What makes any of this unbelievable? Just because there is disbelief in what I've said, doesn't prove that there is guilt. Disbelief in what I've said, doesn't disprove what I've said. If I have been so meticulous and thorough in addressing every point brought up, then the same courtesy should apply to my counterpoints. If my counterpoints aren't being looked over, how do I know if my video footage will even be looked over? I'm not trying to be difficult. I am trying to plead my case and be as honest as possible, not just for my sake but for others. Once again, I have a 10 minute video, using Shadowplay Instant Replay, of me playing on November the 2nd on Interim Apex. That is 2 days after the incident and 2 days before my ban. To be specific, it is on the map Vile_Facility. I'm willing to address any further points that are brought up. Edited November 8, 2019 by Guard55 Grammatical Mistake 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 10, 2019 Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 @Guard55 Good Evening On 11/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Guard55 said: I'd say it is more akin to refusing to acknowledge or listen to my points. If my points are being looked at, then it should be courteous if someone would at least acknowledge them. I have posted my points above. Whether you agree or disagree with them is up to you. You do not, and have posted your responses to them which I do appreciate. On 11/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Guard55 said: Guilt has not been established or proven with absolute certainty. That itself has been admitted. I believe what KTFF is trying to say here is that until we have video footage from you on these events, it will not be established with absolute certainty. As a compromise and because I have judged you to be of good character we would like for you to play with video on our server. Quote I was permanently banned with no prior warning. No one warns people in-game they believe that are cheating with RGH. You have however been notified you can provide your case here on W3DHub Forums which is what has occurred. On 11/7/2019 at 5:15 PM, Guard55 said: Since there is no absolute certainty that means there is still doubt. That means guilt has not been proven decisively. If guilt has not been proven decisively, presumption of innocence. One cannot ban someone simply on thinking they are guilty. One must know they are guilty and prove they are guilty. Guard55. This is akin to stating that because someone was not there to witness a crime first hand, they will never be guilty, despite any evidence, videos or reasoning provided. As such, I have provided my case with videos based on the logic and reasoning of why I made my decision and beliefs. This is combined with my knowledge of RGH and how Renegade Works. You have made your case based on your reasons of why you did your actions and why you believe you are innocent along with questions/concerns I have brought up. In order for me not to be judge jury and executioner (Which I prefer not to be for sake of fairness) KTFF has been brought in to make the judgement call based on the videos, reasoning and logic I have provided and the logic/reasoning you have provided. He is an Administrator for Interim Apex along with being in charge of Moderator Discipline, hiring, firing, server rules and cases in Interim Apex. KTFF reviewed the results brought here by both of us and has Affirmed my decision. On 11/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Guard55 said: If there was concern, why wait until the 4th of November to ban me for an incident that occurred on the 30th? I wanted to review all the evidence and ensure that this decision I was making was well thought out and just. I also wanted for you to be able to post your reasoning here for the events and any video you may have had. (Appeal @ W3Dhub.com) On 11/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Guard55 said: how do I know if my video footage will even be looked over? Quote I wish I had video footage to prove to you what I'm saying is true. If someone has a complaint or claim of cheating on the server, you have video footage to directly prove them wrong. Assuming you stream, I will never have to notify you asking for a video or bother you. Furthermore, the deal is it lasts for a finite period of time, after which you are free to not stream or video anything. On 11/8/2019 at 4:24 PM, Guard55 said: Once again, I have a 10 minute video, using Shadowplay Instant Replay, of me playing on November the 2nd on Interim Apex. That is 2 days after the incident and 2 days before my ban. To be specific, it is on the map Vile_Facility. Thank you for taking the time to post this video up. However, the idea here is to have any video proving to the time framed in question on the videos I have time in the match when your actions occurred. Unfortunately (And I say this very respectfully) showing behavior on one day does not counteract behavior on another. However the fact you are willing to go to the extent of posting this is why I want to say that you should still be allowed to play on our server with footage. KTFF has affirmed the decision made by me once again. Unless he reverses his decision and posts on here, - You can provide footage to the terms above or stream ensuring they meet the above conditions in someway, granting you the abitlly to play on the IA server. - You can provide Video Evidence from your computer on the time frames and match in question on that date. Should such video be provided showing you on your screen of how the actions were taken, the decision will be revised. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2019 I have a series of questions that I would like answered for clarity. Is not the deal a plea bargain? That in itself is an admission of guilt, but having a lesser charge so instead of being permanently banned I would be forced to either record or livestream my gameplay. If it's not a plea bargain, then what is it? Will you be actively watching the livestream or will you watch the VOD later? Will you be willing to watch every VOD and every livestream, and each in it's full length? Why 5 months? Are you going to be watching me for 5 months? Will you be watching every livestream of every match that I do for 5 months? How will 5 months grant me a clean slate? How will livestreaming/recording for 5 months clear your verdict? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 11, 2019 Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 6 hours ago, Guard55 said: Is not the deal a plea bargain? No. 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: I have a series of questions that I would like answered for clarity. Unless this is about the offer I have given you, please review the points brought across by me above which were understood and responded by you. KTFF has determined that my responses were valid compared with what was offered. 6 hours ago, Guard55 said: That in itself is an admission of guilt No one here has said it is, was or will be. Anyone harassing you online for it would be punished by me. If there is a person harrasing you for it please notify me. The only person here believing it is is you. The people relevant for future decisions (me and other moderators on IA) do not see it as an admission of guilt. Should this topic be brought up on any other server (You can request this topic be hidden if you'd like and I'll see what I can do) I will lay claim on that site that this is not an admission of guilt and should not be taken that way. 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: If it's not a plea bargain, then what is it? A chance for you to play on our server without me spectating you constantly or there being any belief that you're hacking, upon which after the time period it will be a clean slate with nothing being required to be fulfilled on your end for the remainder of play. 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: Will you be watching every livestream of every match that I do for 5 months? I may. I may watch one day. Or I may never watch one at all. However if something of question occurs, there is solid video proof from your end showing that the other person is wrong. This method also ensures that you do not know when i'm watching (unless there is something specific you'd like for me to watch on a match in which case I'll do.) 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: Will you be willing to watch every VOD and every livestream, and each in it's full length? I don't see why not. I might learn a thing or two on how to play better maybe. Although the real meaning of it is to ensure video proof is provided for anything in the future time frame given. 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: Why 5 months? I believe it to be a fair amount of time. If there is any other moderator or IA administration that believes it to be to long I will adjust it and invite you to tell me. 7 hours ago, Guard55 said: How will 5 months grant me a clean slate? How will livestreaming/recording for 5 months clear your verdict? I believe someone willing to show how they play for 5 months should be granted a clean slate. You've been granted this due to good moral character, manners and responses. KTFF has affirmed my decision and agrees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 11, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) On 11/9/2019 at 8:27 PM, Threve said: No one warns people in-game they believe that are cheating with RGH. You have however been notified you can provide your case here on W3DHub Forums which is what has occurred. Fair enough. On 11/9/2019 at 8:27 PM, Threve said: KTFF has been brought in to make the judgement call based on the videos, reasoning and logic I have provided and the logic/reasoning you have provided. He is an Administrator for Interim Apex along with being in charge of Moderator Discipline, hiring, firing, server rules and cases in Interim Apex. KTFF reviewed the results brought here by both of us and has Affirmed my decision. I appreciate that. On 11/9/2019 at 8:27 PM, Threve said: I wanted to review all the evidence and ensure that this decision I was making was well thought out and just. I also wanted for you to be able to post your reasoning here for the events and any video you may have had. (Appeal @ W3Dhub.com) Understandable. 2 hours ago, Threve said: I believe it to be a fair amount of time. If there is any other moderator or IA administration that believes it to be to long I will adjust it and invite you to tell me. Wait, so is it if a moderator thinks it's long or if I think it's long? Is it me asking another moderator that it's too long and they agree, or is it something else? I'm a little bit confused. I'm of the opinion that 5 months is too long. I'm willing to discuss the length of time and come to an agreement. 2 hours ago, Threve said: I believe someone willing to show how they play for 5 months should be granted a clean slate. You've been granted this due to good moral character, manners and responses. KTFF has affirmed my decision and agrees. I appreciate that a lot. Thank you for your patience. Edited November 11, 2019 by Guard55 Added an additional sentence saying thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 11, 2019 Report Share Posted November 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Guard55 said: Wait, so is it if a moderator thinks it's long or if I think it's long? Is it me asking another moderator that it's too long and they agree, or is it something else? I'm a little bit confused. I'm of the opinion that 5 months is too long. I'm willing to discuss the length of time and come to an agreement. The quote from me above was in reference to, if any Staff moderator reading, Admin or IA administration believes the time period to be to long.. then they can overrule what I've given and I am happy to if they post here saying so (or private message me). 12 hours ago, Guard55 said: I'm of the opinion that 5 months is too long. I'm willing to discuss the length of time and come to an agreement. The time has been affirmed by KTFF. You've been very respectful however so i'll meet in the middle. I might watch some videos of yours and take off a month for a total of 4. Should I do so I will private message you. Going forward, these are the terms - You record every moment you play for 5 months on the IA server. If I request footage from a time that you played in this time frame you'll give it to me no questions asked. (I have also stated that I will consider 4 months in the near future. Upon doing so I will private message you.) - You must keep the footage from your gameplay for 3 days. (This means if it's November 13th and I ask for a clip from November 12th. You should have it. If it's Nov 13th and I ask for a clip from November 1st, it's my fault and you don't need to have it/you can delete it if you want so your computer doesn't get massively full.) (It has been previously recommended you consider streaming as it saves the video for 14 days and you don't have to worry about uploading it on youtube, if you choose this option you will send me the link to your stream or if you'd like you can post it here in this topic.) (If you choose to record and upload it's been recommended to record in 360p instead of 1440p to save space. 360p and above has been accepted by me (threve). - No weird shenanigans if i ask for a video or a specific moment from a match. This means no "editing" or "cutting" of clips to mask up a time period. No editing to skip a match you were in or anything of the sort. - After 5 Months are up (April 5th, 2020) (If 4 months is established in the future it will be March 5th, 2020). You have a clean slate and are no longer required to fulfill any of this anymore. However if I ask for a video of you playing on April 1st, 2020 (Or March 1st, 2020 should a month be taken off) and you don't have it. You realize this fails to complete your end of the deal. - If I ask for a video you have 5 days to produce the video/match requested. The time begins from when I ask you and you acknowledge. The requests from me will be sent from W3DHub.com if I send anything. I will also notify you in-game if I see you. - Failure to fulfill any of these requirements/ you cannot produce the asked video (unless special circumstances arise like Server Crash, Corrupted Video) will result in the return of a Ban with full understanding. - Acceptance of this is not a plea deal. Any harassment towards Guard55 on this topic will be met with punishment. (Accordingly if someone asks you (Guard55) and you'd like to talk to them feel free to. However if you tell them to stop or people are bothering you that is where I step in.) If it is difficult to remember to record every match, I recommend setting a tag on yourself using !tagself something to help you remember or setting a !setjoin. Thank you for your cooperation in everything. Please notify me through here on the topic or in private message that you have your software set up or you're able to stream and i will then have you unbanned. Thank you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 12, 2019 Report Share Posted November 12, 2019 @Guard55 I’ve talked with Dblaney and have had you unbanned. Joining our server from this point on is an agreement to the terms above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted November 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2019 My twitch is twitch.tv/Guard55 I accept the deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaitan Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) RGH does not work with scripts 4.0+(not one that's been released as 0x90 doesn't play anymore). The way darius is jumping around will get him seen(they "flash"). After scripts 4.0 came out you can see sbh easier when they are: hugging walls and jumping. As an sbh you do not want do either of those. As a stealth tank you stay away from walls as well. It did have its ups though; the old core patch problem of non-cp users seeing sbh doesn't apply anymore. Mrls will 6 lock them on occasion. Staying cloaked while scoped and/or scoped-walking is a thing every one of you can do. If a server runs Dragonade; it's even easier with the radio keys. Last enemy shot uses the blue bind-lock icon when you radio it, which 1/2 of the time gives away said sbh above their heads. Edited November 14, 2019 by shaitan stank info 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 4 hours ago, shaitan said: RGH does not work with scripts 4.0+(not one that's been released as 0x90 doesn't play anymore). I know which one you're talking of. Unfortunately as me and KTFF have seen, the RGH community has gone mainly underground and though not as predominant are still being updated and passed around, bypassing 4.0+ Scripts. 4 hours ago, shaitan said: Staying cloaked while scoped and/or scoped-walking is a thing every one of you can do. True. However you must first aim and while in scope, you'll then re stealth after a couple of seconds. 4 hours ago, shaitan said: The way darius is jumping around will get him seen(they "flash"). After scripts 4.0 came out you can see sbh easier when they are: hugging walls and jumping. As an sbh you do not want do either of those. Me and KTFF recreated what happened and both of us were unable to see what you were talking about in that map. Also nothing was mentioned here about that happening in this situation. 4 hours ago, shaitan said: If a server runs Dragonade; it's even easier with the radio keys. Last enemy shot uses the blue bind-lock icon when you radio it, which 1/2 of the time gives away said sbh above their heads. Yeah. Currently a problem but on our (IA) side and not the players for using it. Still in debate on how to fix it without having to remove the feature for everything else not stealth'd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaitan Posted November 14, 2019 Report Share Posted November 14, 2019 Believe it or not, but anyone who's been playing before/after 4.0 knows that the stealth effects do these things. You can't "recreate" it once or twice and call it a day. The video clearly shows darius jumping around like a madman. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted November 15, 2019 Report Share Posted November 15, 2019 20 hours ago, shaitan said: Believe it or not, but anyone who's been playing before/after 4.0 knows that the stealth effects do these things. You can't "recreate" it once or twice and call it a day. The video clearly shows darius jumping around like a madman. Thank you for your input. However no mention was made of Darius being de-stealthed in this topic when the shot occured. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threve Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 11/11/2019 at 1:28 PM, Threve said: - After 5 Months are up (April 5th, 2020) @Guard55 Agreement has been fulfilled. Nothing here required or in contract applies anymore including video taping. Although for the future it is highly recommended to avoid any further drama in the event something like this happens again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard55 Posted April 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2020 Thank you. Much appreciated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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