Games [GAME OVER] Cop Mafia II

[ChopBam]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Do a chart of Voe being sane?

Simple. From the chart above, in the scenario of you being scum, if Voe was sane then KY was naive and all remaining reports would be useless except that from ILTS.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Simple. From the chart above, in the scenario of you being scum, if Voe was sane then KY was naive and all remaining reports would be useless except that from ILTS.

I'm a very visual learner I want to see a picture 

[iLikeToSnipe]

6 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

At the time, assuming iLikeToScum, he wouldn't have known which of you was sane. If I had died, my scum read on iLTS may have been more legitimize in KY's brain to reconsider his scum read on you, Orange. Even if he investigated you and got a town read, he may have considered himself naive, yes, but if KY considered himself naive, that would have made you the sane cop by necessity and iLTS would have been outed because of his multiple mafia reports (impossible to be sane or naive). Pressure's back on you, @iLikeToSnipe. Killing_You couldn't stay alive in your scum case because whether he investigated Orange as naive or sane, you would have been outed by logical process.

Okay, I think I get what you're saying. That if I was mafia my only option would be to kill KY. Since KY died I'm mafia then.

Putting myself into iLikeToScum's shoes, I would have killed you actually. The only reasons I've seen are being afraid of being investigated, which wouldn't be the case, and "galaxy brain play". As has been pointed out, KY was agreeing with me that Orange was mafia. It would be to my advantage to keep him alive and on my side. If his only two possible cop sanities are sane or naive, why would he not investigate his primary suspect? I don't see any reason to kill KY if I were mafia. I mean, I would be more likely to not do a night kill at all than to kill KY as mafia...

I feel that no matter what happened with the night kill Orange would be saying it was a galaxy brain play mafia gambit from me. And that's the truth honestly, I do go for galaxy brain plays as mafia. In this case that would be killing you and blaming it on Orange to try and get town lynched. I don't kill town supporters as mafia. That's just bad strategy.

[ChopBam]

8 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I'm a very visual learner I want to see a picture 

I totally understand. I used to love doing logic puzzles in school, so if there are two possibilities in a chart like that and you can declare or negate one, then the other one falls into place naturally, which can lead to more conclusions down the line.

[OrangeP47]

3 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Okay, I think I get what you're saying. That if I was mafia my only option would be to kill KY. Since KY died I'm mafia then.

Putting myself into iLikeToScum's shoes, I would have killed you actually. The only reasons I've seen are being afraid of being investigated, which wouldn't be the case, and "galaxy brain play". As has been pointed out, KY was agreeing with me that Orange was mafia. It would be to my advantage to keep him alive and on my side. If his only two possible cop sanities are sane or naive, why would he not investigate his primary suspect? I don't see any reason to kill KY if I were mafia. I mean, I would be more likely to not do a night kill at all than to kill KY as mafia...

I feel that no matter what happened with the night kill Orange would be saying it was a galaxy brain play mafia gambit from me. And that's the truth honestly, I do go for galaxy brain plays as mafia. In this case that would be killing you and blaming it on Orange to try and get town lynched. I don't kill town supporters as mafia. That's just bad strategy.

I mean, this is WIFOM, unless you provide examples.

[iLikeToSnipe]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean, this is WIFOM, unless you provide examples.

Me saying what I feel like you'd do no matter what? That's just my feeling.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Me saying what I feel like you'd do no matter what? That's just my feeling.

Most of that paragraph was about yourself, self analysis, which is always to be taken with a grain of salt, it was hardly about me...

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Most of that paragraph was about yourself, self analysis, which is always to be taken with a grain of salt, it was hardly about me...

I mean look at this again Chop, that was such a blatant deflection he just pulled.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Most of that paragraph was about yourself, self analysis, which is always to be taken with a grain of salt, it was hardly about me...

Yeah? The question was about me, not about you. If I recall correctly, ChopBam has played in multiple games where I've demonstrated that as mafia. So he should have that experience too, not just me.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

Yeah? The question was about me, not about you. If I recall correctly, ChopBam has played in multiple games where I've demonstrated that as mafia. So he should have that experience too, not just me.

It's good form to provide examples. You're the one who's been demanding details.

[iLikeToSnipe]

@ChopBam

If you want some more proof against Orange, here you go.

 

Attacked the post I just made for a completely invalid reason.

5 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Most of that paragraph was about yourself, self analysis, which is always to be taken with a grain of salt, it was hardly about me...

Another emotional appeal.

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean look at this again Chop, that was such a blatant deflection he just pulled.

Moving the goalposts for why that was a bad post.

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

It's good form to provide examples. You're the one who's been demanding details.

 

These are all the mistakes I made as mafia in the game where I tunneled you and I was under pressure.

[ChopBam]

7 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

As has been pointed out, KY was agreeing with me that Orange was mafia. It would be to my advantage to keep him alive and on my side. If his only two possible cop sanities are sane or naive, why would he not investigate his primary suspect? I don't see any reason to kill KY if I were mafia. I mean, I would be more likely to not do a night kill at all than to kill KY as mafia...

I still don't think you're getting it. In iLTScum case, Killing_You would have investigated Orange, and from that investigation would have 100% seen Orange as town (regardless over whether he was sane or naive). I'd like to think that KY would have considered only two possibilities about himself: he is sane or he is naive. In the binary consideration that he is sane, then Orange is good and you are left as the scum. In the binary consideration that he is naive, he would assume that the sane cop was Orange or Voe. If Voe, then Orange is scum. If Orange, then you are scum. So KY investigating Orange would still have a greater than 50% chance yield of you being scum.

If you had killed me, KY would have had the above chance crackers to munch on, as well as the idea that the one person pursuing you was scum reading you and you would have gone after him in revenge.

No, the best way would be to kill KY and galaxy brain it to try to change my mind with all these nice arguments you now have at your disposal as a result of these decisions.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

@ChopBam

If you want some more proof against Orange, here you go.

 

Attacked the post I just made for a completely invalid reason.

Another emotional appeal.

Moving the goalposts for why that was a bad post.

 

These are all the mistakes I made as mafia in the game where I tunneled you and I was under pressure.

Nah, this stuff is good. I stand by it.

[Jeod]

Hey chop. I’m gonna call hammer on your first vote. No takebacksies and no pressure. See you in the morning.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Hey chop. I’m gonna call hammer on your first vote. No takebacksies and no pressure. See you in the morning.

To be fair, that's how the majority of mafia sites run these games.

[iLikeToSnipe]

3 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

I still don't think you're getting it. In iLTScum case, Killing_You would have investigated Orange, and from that investigation would have 100% seen Orange as town (regardless over whether he was sane or naive). I'd like to think that KY would have considered only two possibilities about himself: he is sane or he is naive. In the binary consideration that he is sane, then Orange is good and you are left as the scum. In the binary consideration that he is naive, he would assume that the sane cop was Orange or Voe. If Voe, then Orange is scum. If Orange, then you are scum. So KY investigating Orange would still have a greater than 50% chance yield of you being scum.

If you had killed me, KY would have had the above chance crackers to munch on, as well as the idea that the one person pursuing you was scum reading you and you would have gone after him in revenge.

No, the best way would be to kill KY and galaxy brain it to try to change my mind with all these nice arguments you now have at your disposal as a result of these decisions.

I'm getting really tired and have to head to bed soon. So this will be one of my last posts until tomorrow. I'll do my best to put to words what I'm thinking, so just give me a few minutes.

[OrangeP47]

Jeeze, you people all go to bed so early (I say on one of the few days my medication hasn't made me pass out by now)

[ChopBam]

3 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

@ChopBam

Okay, let me do a rehash. On D2 it came down to either KY or Orange as the last mafia. Expecting myself to die N2 and not being able to trust a cop report from either of them, I knew that the only way to reliably find mafia was to go back to post analysis.

Since we haven't had much content this game compared to others, I just started at the very beginning of D1 and worked my way through. That's where I noticed an immediate difference between KY and Orange. KY floated the idea of a nolynch, Orange floated the idea of lynching Voe. Discussion kept on going and Orange started the lynch train on Voe. I came back, read through the posts, gave my thoughts on nolynch vs lynch, and pointed out that I thought it suspicious how quickly Voe gained enough votes to be lynched.

Instead of actually responding to any of my points, Orange immediately told me to "try again" and called me the scummiest player without any reasoning. The responses from everyone else to my post were calm and reasonable. Orange continued to attack me with a whole bunch of WIFOM and conjecture, as well as a flimsy attack on my post style; if you really want to go back and look at my post history you'll see that it's consistent between all alignments. Orange then skips over obvious logical steps, such as nolynching as much as we can, and finishes up D1 with a weak admission that nolynching makes more sense and still calling me scummy without providing any actual reasoning as to why.

This is just what happened during D1. When comparing Orange to KY D2, it was very obvious to me that one player was scummier than the other. I then made a post with these findings and placed my vote onto Orange. That's when Orange went aggressive and everything just devolved into a mess. The content of Orange's posts the rest of that day don't matter as much to me as the pattern behind them. Orange is just trying to get any lynch to happen. He's not trying to find scum.

His behavior on D1 and his reactions to my post D2 were scummy. D2 he was not being helpful. I'll just let KY summarize this for me.

"I don't like his line of reasoning, as it seems oriented around making his decisions seem right rather than helping town. iLTS, on the other hand, has been very helpful, and his logic seems very pro-Town."

I will note that from reading over this big "rehash" post and your other posts, you haven't really reinforced or restated anywhere the idea that you are the insane cop and got a town report on Orange. You keep going over "arguments" like a machine. I know if I was an insane cop in your shoes, with this kind of resistance from Orange, I would be going more crazy over my report which to me would confirm as 100% solid proof the fact that Orange is scum. You haven't done this however. Just mentioned the report at the beginning of the day and then forgot about it...

5 hours ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

Could it technically provide some level of benefit to town? Yeah, it could. But would that benefit to town outweigh the benefit to mafia? Absolutely not. You're full of crap right now and I'm done debating with you.

"I think you need to try again.  Also, if we were voting purely on who's scummiest, I'd probably vote for you, just so you know." That was your immediate response to my post that suggested a nolynch. My post that didn't target a single person, it just put forward the case for a nolynch and expressed concern that one of the players who was on the Voe lynch could be mafia.

If anybody has had a knee-jerk reaction it's you. You're the one that jumped headfirst into baseless attacks and continued them with crappy reasoning.

This is your extremely rhetorical followup post after your initial and only claim on your very "positive" report on Orange. No mention of your report. I'd certainly have much more of an "aha, gotcha" attitude if I really saw such a cop report in my PM's. But nope, nothing at all.

On 1/15/2020 at 6:09 PM, iLikeToSnipe said:

"The implication being if you're scum you're trying to get us to no lynch because it's advantageous to you." Let me remind you all, if I am mafia, then Voe has to be the insane cop and got an N0 investigation on me. In what world would it be advantageous to me to no lynch as mafia, let alone a no lynch that spares the player who would certainly out me as mafia? I mean, let's walk through this logically. Once all the claims were made, there were two mafia results and three town. If I were mafia I would have to have known that Voe were the insane cop in that situation and that he would out me the next day.

I would have supported that lynch and I would get an extra kill during the night! That'd be insanely lucky for me, how could I pass up that opportunity? But, only one player put forth effort into getting Voe lynched.

Orange believed a Voe lynch was to his advantage. Obviously, he would eliminate town on D1 and force D2 into LYLO. He would also eliminate a player who had gotten a cop report of the same alignment he claimed, making it easier for him to fake a claim.

There's motive, there's action, and I don't think there's any reasonable doubt. At this point, I am absolutely confident that the mafia player is Orange so I see no point in delaying this.

##vote Orange

Additionally, the way you tried to deviate from the plan yesterday and suddenly start some kind of bandwagon on Orange when it wasn't so cut and dry to everyone else also still rubs me in the wrongest way possible.

Let's look over part of that post again:

Quote

In what world would it be advantageous to me to no lynch as mafia, let alone a no lynch that spares the player who would certainly out me as mafia? I mean, let's walk through this logically. Once all the claims were made, there were two mafia results and three town. If I were mafia I would have to have known that Voe were the insane cop in that situation and that he would out me the next day.

Why lynch when you can just nightkill him and then claim for townie points later that you weren't part of the Voe bandwagon, therefore you're a good guy? You had already started momentum on the no lynch idea, why not follow through for townie points? You seem to be capitalizing on this very strongly now, which to me gives you motive to have done exactly that.

[OrangeP47]

I'd actually forgotten he allegedly copped me as bad, given the fact that I town copped him.

[ChopBam]

iLikeToType is taking a while in his rebuttal and I doubt there's much he can say that hasn't been said already.

##vote iLTS

@Jeod

[OrangeP47]

Just now, ChopBam said:

iLikeToType is taking a while in his rebuttal and I doubt there's much he can say that hasn't been said already.

##vote iLTS

@Jeod

Oh snap, well done, I really am town!

[iLikeToSnipe]

2 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

iLikeToType is taking a while in his rebuttal and I doubt there's much he can say that hasn't been said already.

##vote iLTS

@Jeod

Well, I'm just going to delete this wall of text then.

[OrangeP47]

We've awakened Louis from her slumber for the grand finale apparently.

[Louis]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

We've awakened Louis from her slumber for the grand finale apparently.

😋😋😋😋✌️✌️✌️✌️

[ChopBam]

OH SHIT HI @Louis!!!!!!!

[Jeod]

Iliketoscum is lynched, town wins

gg

[Louis]

Hullo I am awake and thought hey it's been awhile but looks like I just missed a cool game!

[Jeod]

Here’s a thing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YvpDChr2-vRE9YRdR3FmvAeJrcRksR4Vkv9xyAFf3eY

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Jeod said:

Iliketoscum is lynched, town wins

gg

I'm never letting everyone live down a "Interesting..." scum tell ever again.

[OrangeP47]

Also maybe this can be the start of Chop and me not scum reading each other every game, that would be nice.