In game commands

[GibbletsnBits]

It seems to me that the list of commands break TF out of this game. For example player uses !weap until they get something that's effective against an MCT. Player gets to the enemy building walks up to door, takes 2-3mines uses !char, back to full health, walk through the last 1-2mines or use !support to clear them. Inside call !support and/or !vehicle then do w/e dmg you set out to do with the !weap the player has.  Even just using !char as an in battle refill on the field is a sweaty thing to do. To be fair I limit myself to stuff I think is not BS, I don't use beacons on large maps with low player counts for example. So I may be the only one who has a problem with the abuse able nature of commands. Thank You, salty rant done.

[Threve]

!Cmds are something that encourages players to attack or defend and actually play the game. While I can see why you think they "Break TF out of this game" it's something that is seen from your prespective. 

They way I see it is commands encourage offensive gameplay and speed up the game while also rewarding people who attack as a result or defend. By not using !wep, !support or !char to disarm mines I don't exactly understand how i'm supposed to go up against a building when it has 8 mines, 1 Techie bot, 1 Base Crew and the chance that someone who dies will spawn there any moment. And no, I'm not going to get everyone to spam tanks every single game like APB to win a game because that's the only realistic strategy to take down a base.

The problem I have with people saying that it's "Abuse" is how they typically turn a blind eye to other things. If someone isn't allowed to use !char during battle when are they allowed to use it? Does that mean you can't use !wep during battle as well because that would be abuse? Someone using !support alerts the whole base where they're at, so why is it abuse when it tells everyone the location. 
 

I think I can best wrap it up by saying this and what I believe. If everyone has the ability to do the same thing (Everyone can use the different !cmds) then it's not abuse or having something broken. Instead you need to use it the same way, get more creative with how you use it or get left behind. 

[alphoca]

I agree with threve,  except vehicle command all of them are rewarding for offense and not that game breaking

[GibbletsnBits]

I still disagree. To my experience all the renegade games are at their best when requiring and rewarding teamwork. Commands are the antithesis of teamwork. They're a crutch that rewards solo commandos to play by themselves. Commands let you bring your own allies so you don't have to engage with your team to be successful. Most salty for me, they poop all over any attempt to proxy mine a building, as long as you have a high enough veterancy.

[Threve]

19 minutes ago, GibbletsnBits said:

I still disagree. To my experience all the renegade games are at their best when requiring and rewarding teamwork. Commands are the antithesis of teamwork. They're a crutch that rewards solo commandos to play by themselves. Commands let you bring your own allies so you don't have to engage with your team to be successful. Most salty for me, they poop all over any attempt to proxy mine a building, as long as you have a high enough veterancy.

Then mine places where someone won't expect it. For example, dont mine the door to the ref but instead the wall. This will make players assume you didn't mine your base and will instead die instantly after making the mistake. You can even throw the mines inside the bottom roof area of the com center to have them go inside the building so they're impossible to disarm. In addition, gaining !support is difficult now since the requirement was upped after it was swapped out. You have to be lvl 4 to get !support now, you don't instantly get it. If it's such a problem as well then deploy !support inside a building.

IA still is teamwork. But it's a game that doesn't force you to use it each and every single game. If you believe that teamwork is the best route, then find a way to make it so you can use teamwork to defend the base like having someone (Tesla7man) just camp the base with a gap gen.

Like yeah, players use !cmds. But they not only earn them, but they're also given to any player in the game as well. 

[GibbletsnBits]

It's not about positioning of mines when 3bots (1 gunner) and an !char use can be applied to remove mines that are hidden. Then it's about volume of mines, if there weren't a proxy limit then I'd have no problem. I feel I can speak on that with some authority, as I'm pretty good at sneaky mine spots.  I know nothing of the requirements changing for !support, I also don't know the original requirement either :P. When I defend a base I get (assuming we're not losing) about 30-40% of the veterancy of those who are attacking in w/e fashion. Can't call !support, only the players who were in the field have the veterancy required to do it. I doubt (Tesla7man) would have the vet pts in that situation either. !support in a building is rarely a choice except if it's right now being attacked. Do it ahead of time and they run out of the buildings ASAP. For the record, I have no problem with !ammo it's got lots of justified utility.

[Threve]

5 hours ago, GibbletsnBits said:

It's not about positioning of mines when 3bots (1 gunner) and an !char use can be applied to remove mines that are hidden. Then it's about volume of mines, if there weren't a proxy limit then I'd have no problem. I feel I can speak on that with some authority, as I'm pretty good at sneaky mine spots.  I know nothing of the requirements changing for !support, I also don't know the original requirement either :P. When I defend a base I get (assuming we're not losing) about 30-40% of the veterancy of those who are attacking in w/e fashion. Can't call !support, only the players who were in the field have the veterancy required to do it. I doubt (Tesla7man) would have the vet pts in that situation either. !support in a building is rarely a choice except if it's right now being attacked. Do it ahead of time and they run out of the buildings ASAP. For the record, I have no problem with !ammo it's got lots of justified utility.

You're again assuming that people assualting a building will have the ability to call in !support every single game. Getting to !support takes a long time. In addition people call !support (when they can) because they see mines on the building door. If they don't, they hit the mines and die instantly. So no, you're not putting the mines in sneaky spots because they see said mines and call in !support. 

This argument or suggestion of "Removing the mine limit" has been brought up by people over and over to which I have to give the same answer.

1. I've been able to effectively mine a building with near 55 mines out of 96. Providing plenty of room to place more wherever you'd like.

2. No mine limits mean that you can just spam mines all over the building. Why bother attacking anymore as an infantry? You're forcing the game to be more about rushes with tanks being the only tactic allowed more than it already is. Yet again anouther situation of A. Can't do anything as an attacker , B. Don't have to do anything as a defender.

3. You don't place mines in spots that won't be detected/disarmed. You don't place !support in buildings when you have the ability. The bots also don't just run out of the building when called in ASAP. I would know because I have used !support bots for in the past when fighting known base rushers.

[GibbletsnBits]

In my experience I'd say the commands to get access to buildings happen less then 10% of the time someone tries to run into a building, not all the time. However when it does happen it's really obvious and rq's follow. Just because only a few people abuse it (currently) doesn't mean it's not a problem.

I would never suggest removing the mine limit, it would fudge the entire game. It was just the only context that could justify needing more then 8 mines to an entrance.

I don't understand your comment, you used 55mines on 1 building, or you used 55mines spread across all buildings? If it's the latter, It takes around 8 mines an entrance route and 4 outside of a PP = 20 for 1-2 rush protections per route + obvious beacon spots. So I'm assuming you put 4 hidden mines at every entrance route and you'd only fully kill 1 person, maybe 2 if they're low armour characters. To protect against the commands you need 10+ per route, not going to happen.

The time it occurred to me to do so, I called !support in a Hand of Nod and within 30secs a fast vehicle zipped into the base and the bots just ran out of the building to get squished, although the Rocket Officer shot a bit b4 being noobed. Maybe in an enclosed space like a PP it may work. .

It's totally fine to agree to disagree.

 

[BeerBaron]

i think the vet commands are just tools like anything else ingame. they can be good or they can be crap, depends on who's using them, and how. and its not like their even that op. yes !sup are aimbots but their also stupid and weak. the !char can give you a refill, but not your char's primary weapons which will get lost on the switch, and has good odds of giving you something garbage. !veh cant be used until legendary. !weps are kinda skewed between sides and will give alot more powerful stuff to Nod but thats how it should be.