Balance Grenadier splash dmg

[des1206]

Right now the Grenadier is mainly used as either a turret/pillbox destroyer (great at that since engineer can't repair without dying), sieging from afar infantries (not so easy) or buildings (small damage, but good for pointwhore). To make him a bit more useful without eclipsing other Soviet infantries, can we make his small splash damage affect vehicles and buildings as well?

 

This way, he can really fullfill the "annoying base sieger" role easily. He can also hit retreating Allied vehicles better or maybe even expose a phase tank or MGG with his large splash range.

Edited September 21, 2016 by des1206

[Pushwall]

It already does affect vehicles - and fully at that, because C4-type weapons have 0 "projectile" damage and cannot have any more than that. The issue with splash damage in this engine though is that the splash "sphere" has to touch the very middle of an object, instead of any part of an object's hitbox, in order to affect it. However this gets ignored if the projectile directly hit the object (or is a C4 attached to the object, as in this case) and applies full splash damage regardless of distance. So in order for grenades that have stuck to the ground to actually hit most vehicles, the splash radius would need to be increased drastically. And then it'd be OP against infantry, particularly inside any building where the grenadier can put enough distance between himself and the grenade.

As for buildings: splash damage cannot affect buildings, except if it's part of a projectile that directly hit the building (seeing a pattern here yet?) And I'm pretty sure regular C4/projectiles can't be given the same structure radius damage voodoo magic that demo trucks/beacons get. Defenses and auxiliary buildings are technically not "buildings" though, and the splash already affects them in the same way that it does against vehicles, so it can be done against them sometimes - there are a few cases on some maps where defenses are packed tightly enough together that a single grenade can hit two at once, and deal full damage to both due to grenades not having distance falloff for their damage, so look out for those special cases! One that I can remember off the top of my head is on Ridge War where you can hit both the Service Depot and the Turret at the same time at the external outpost if you think about the things I said.

[des1206]

Can we up his anti-building damage then? I don't mind paying more for him, it's just that because of his lack of anti-vehicle or close-range defenses, I would expect him to be decent (RS damage) at leveling buildings from a far (think artillery/V2). When I buy him I want there to be real potential damage to be done (building destroyed) other than scoring points.

 

Either that, or the RS anti-building damage is too high (best out of all infantries when vs. building exterior). That unit is too good versus everything (except infantry) given the $300 price tag.

[Bayonetta]

I preferred his old splash damage he had a few builds ago. But he was nerfed? And i stopped using him, his Grenade became too hard to use.

[Alstar]

Right now fighting as grenadier requires a bit more planning and prediction where will your enemy go - and throwing grenades right there. Earlier you could simply throw grenades at legs and score kills - now it acts as a normal grenade. And i like it.

[des1206]

This is his current stats guys. 822 purchased, only 96 kills, 0 vehicles destroyed, and 2 buildings destroyed. Surely he needs a buff!

http://www.w3dhub.com/ranks/apb/unitstats.php

Edited September 30, 2016 by des1206

[Pushwall]

I wondered how long it would be before someone tried to use that as justification for him needing a buff while conveniently ignoring Tanya's godly 2 building kills and figuring that maybe the stats just don't track kills by C4 properly

[des1206]

Oh...oops.

[FRAYDO]

So is that like 96 pistol kills then?

[Pushwall]

Yep and 2 "from vehicle" building kills that are lame compared to ones done with binoculars or socket wrench.

 

Speaking of which, notice that mechanics, also equipped with a pistol (albeit infinite), have roughly the same ratio of purchases to infantry kills as the page claims the grenadier does.

[des1206]

He is Allied base defense destroyer Number 1 now, tech/engin repairing die quickly to the splash damage. So much fun on big maps where you can hide and stealth-nader-arty the Allied base. Well done with the balance changes.

Edited October 27, 2016 by des1206

[Bayonetta]

Looking at the stats, he's barely getting any kills. Wasn't this dude really great in Red Alert? He seems trashy now. Compare that to the flamer who is performing pretty well. And the Mechanic and Medic who have more kills than the Grenade dude... Pretty sad if you ask me.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Bayonetta

[Pushwall]

The stats are only recording the grenadier's pistol kills (as I already mentioned in this very thread just a few posts above) and it should not be surprising why the medic's kill count doesn't suck if you've seen it in action.

 

Also what do you mean he was great in Red Alert. In tech levels where heavy tanks don't exist maybe.

[Bayonetta]

The stats are only recording the grenadier's pistol kills (as I already mentioned in this very thread just a few posts above) and it should not be surprising why the medic's kill count doesn't suck if you've seen it in action.

 

Also what do you mean he was great in Red Alert. In tech levels where heavy tanks don't exist maybe.

 

I mean it in the sense that against Groups of infantry he was great because of the splash..