Games [GAME OVER] Open Janitorial Mafia

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Then say them.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Come on man, you could complete the argument for an Inferno/Mojoman/TheIrishman scum team with just two sentences. I can make a scenario where such a team makes sense. Prove you have a town mindset and tell me how it would make sense!

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Come on man, you could complete the argument for an Inferno/Mojoman/TheIrishman scum team with just two sentences. I can make a scenario where such a team makes sense. Prove you have a town mindset and tell me how it would make sense!

Nope, I'm really not certain I'm following you if you think I can surmise some sort of possible link between them with only two sentences, my observations are more based on noting individual tells to suggest a player is likely Town vs. tells that either suggest a player is likely Scum or if they've only given me a largely Neutral read overall, so I'm more associating Irish in that list by process of elimination than anything else.

I mean I could look for it, but I think It'd defeat the point you'd be going for.

[Inferno]

19 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Come on man, you could complete the argument for an Inferno/Mojoman/TheIrishman scum team with just two sentences. I can make a scenario where such a team makes sense. Prove you have a town mindset and tell me how it would make sense!

Just out of curiosity, can you tell me why you stopped posting cop reports starting D2?

[Inferno]

Category 5 - seems townish enough, pushes creative ideas to help town

Shade939 - I can’t really get a good read on him.

iLikeToSnipe - likely scum, pushed lynch on fraydo, unlikely miller imo

Nodlied – seems towny, contributes to discussions

Mojoman – short posts, but I haven’t detected any scum tells, if I’d have to guess: town

TheIrishMan - cleared town

 

in order:

iLTS – shade – mojo – cat 5 – nodlied – irish

 

Which means it’s gotta be 2 out of 4 mafia on nodlied, cat 5, mojo and shade. Provided iLTS is not miller. Also I wanna point out that shade, irish and mojo went along with the fraydo train. Now that clearly doesn’t make them mafia (I cleared irish ffs), but it is something I wanted to mention.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just now, Inferno said:

Just out of curiosity, can you tell me why you stopped posting cop reports starting D2?

I stopped making fake reports when I claimed Oracle. Didn't seem to be much point in continuing the fake claims when scum would know to disregard them, and it might just confuse the rest of town.

[Inferno]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I stopped making fake reports when I claimed Oracle. Didn't seem to be much point in continuing the fake claims when scum would know to disregard them, and it might just confuse the rest of town.

Holy shit, how the fuck did I miss that... No one CC'ed you either...

 

Lemme revise the list then

iLTS – shade – mojo – nodlied – cat 5 – irish

[Category 5 Hurricane]

9 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Nope, I'm really not certain I'm following you if you think I can surmise some sort of possible link between them with only two sentences, my observations are more based on noting individual tells to suggest a player is likely Town vs. tells that either suggest a player is likely Scum or if they've only given me a largely Neutral read overall, so I'm more associating Irish in that list by process of elimination than anything else.

I mean I could look for it, but I think It'd defeat the point you'd be going for.

So, to complete the puzzle these are the two lines of logic that would support TheIrishman and Mojoman as scum.

1) If Inferno is lying about his report on iLTS, then his report on TheIrishman is also suspect.
2) If Mojoman is Mafia, then it would make sense that they killed ChopBam thinking that he was the cop.

[Inferno]

Just now, Inferno said:

Holy shit, how the fuck did I miss that... No one CC'ed you either...

CC doesn't make sense - disregard this. My brain hurts.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Those are basic conclusions that can easily be made if you really think that iLTS is town. Why were you unable to come up with these, Shade? Why is your case mostly based on "Well, I think these guys are town, so the rest must be scum!"?

[Shade939]

11 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

So, to complete the puzzle these are the two lines of logic that would support TheIrishman and Mojoman as scum.

1) If Inferno is lying about his report on iLTS, then his report on TheIrishman is also suspect.
2) If Mojoman is Mafia, then it would make sense that they killed ChopBam thinking that he was the cop.

 

8 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Those are basic conclusions that can easily be made if you really think that iLTS is town. Why were you unable to come up with these, Shade? Why is your case mostly based on "Well, I think these guys are town, so the rest must be scum!"?

There are some flaws with that reasoning I can point out.

1) It's suspicious, but I'd consider it a WIFOM type of argument if anything. There are benefits to either declaring your teammate or an actual Town player as Town, so a fake cop could easily decide to go either route.

2) So, you're saying the real cop is still alive then, hence the Mafia is still trying to kill the Cop?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Good, I'm glad you caught the second one, in particular.

What do you think? Is the cop dead, or not?

[Mojoman]

I was never good at analyzing. This is fun to watch.

[Shade939]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Good, I'm glad you caught the second one, in particular.

What do you think? Is the cop dead, or not?

Honestly, I'd kinda hope so at this point, otherwise the Cop is really not doing his job, I could buy the Cop doing something like getting a N1 report on the dead player, then getting a largely useless Town result for N2, but at this point even if it's only to counterclaim Inferno it'd be a better play than continuing to remain silent.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Like I said before, it slightly bothers me that there isn't a counter claim, but I've already stated that all three of my suspects plus TheIrishman all placed themselves in position where they couldn't counter claim, even if they wanted to. I also think that the cop is alive, because if the cop was dead and they knew it, I doubt there would be reservations from them in making fake claims. 

That said, when both ChopBam and Inferno reported guiltys, I think that if iLTS, Mojoman and Shade are the scum team, the Lawyer would have been targeting either iLTS or Mojoman, and therefore they should have known one of those was wrong. How would they kill the wrong player in that case?

[iLikeToSnipe]

Mojoman:
As I've said before, something really feels off about him. He was trying to guess who the miller was on D1 and D2 which is pretty weird. On top of that, he's been one of the more active players  but his posts either lack content or parrot what others say. In other words, he seems to be trying to just skate by and appear to be active. That's not something that town ought to be doing.

TheIrishman:
The biggest thing for me is his proposed D1 gambit. If it came right out of the blue it'd be a lot worse, but he at least mentioned something about a gambit before role PMs went out. Still, could have been a weird gambit where he was hoping he'd get to be scum. Like Mojo, he hasn't contributed too much to the game but at least he's contributed more and has something of an excuse. At best I've got a null read on him, at worst I'm leaning scum because he hasn't really been that helpful.

Shade939:
I'm a little wary of Shade. He's doing decently well this game, but just about the only thing he's started was a vote against Mojo on D1. Up until just now he hasn't really contributed much.

Inferno:
I think some of his behavior is scummy, namely claiming that FRAYDO was obviously town while he had supported him as scum before the flip. But, the only way he could possibly be scum is if Orange had been the cop. That would require scum to get super lucky and I feel like they would have claimed cop yesterday to try and end the game earlier. Besides that, I don't see him as being anywhere close to being scummy enough to warrant a lynch at LYLO. I think he should be off the table for today.

Nodlied:
He typically doesn't post much whether he's scum or town. Despite his chaotic schedule he's still putting in the effort to scum hunt and I can't think of anything scummy he's done. I've got no reasons to think he's scum and plenty of reasons to think he's town.

Category 5 Hurricane:
I still think some of what he's said/done is pretty scummy, but you can't argue with facts. There is only one way that he couldn't be oracle and it would involve Orange not using his action on N1. That is such a stretch of the imagination it's pretty much impossible. 99.9999999999999999999999% confirmed town.

iLikeToSnipe:
The only player confirmed as town to me by the mods.

Conclusion:
I don't do well when players are mostly inactive and there's been a lot of inactivity this game. So, I really don't have a strong read on anybody except Mojo and Inferno. My only hangup with Inferno is that he's claimed cop and the only way he couldn't be cop is if the cop is alive and dumb or Orange was the cop. Irish, Shade, and Inferno are pretty much tied for me, but I've got a strong feeling about Mojo being scum. He hasn't actually done anything and he was super eager to jump onto Inferno's vote against me today. Also, it could have just been a scum gambit, but with the interactions between Mojo and Shade I don't think it's likely that they're both scum.

[Inferno]

2 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'll repeat that I want to see a full suspect list from everybody, from most suspicious to least.

List of those who haven't posted their scum list (unless I missed something):

• Nodlied
• Cat5
• Mojo
• Irish

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I posted mine during the last day phase, when asking others to do the same, and it is unchanged. Well, other than removing ChopBam from the list.

[Inferno]

14 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I posted mine during the last day phase, when asking others to do the same, and it is unchanged. Well, other than removing ChopBam from the list.

I cleared irish since then, though. Surely it would make more sense to put cleared towns higher up than the cop itself.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

True, but from my perspective the only person I was currently thinking I might swap in to the scum team was ChopBam, who is now gone. 

Also, there is the possibility that you are lying, or that TheIrishman was marked by the Lawyer, or even iLTS is the Miller, so your cop reports on their own don't really impact my cases very much. Nothing is really known for absolute certain quite yet, so I'm still leaning mostly on my own reads.

So in short, order of suspicion hasn't changed much at all.

iLTS, Shade, Mojoman, Inferno, TheIrishman, Nodlied.

I can see why you'd trust a guilty on iLTS, but why are you so sure about TheIrishman being totally clear when your report could be wrong?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I notice that you have too few scum on your reads. Only one scum read and then a null, and the rest are town. Even if we slot Shade from null to scum, where is your third coming from?

[TheIrishman]

Alright, I'm a bit confused with your guys logic, or lack thereof.

Category 5 Hurricane
Shade939
iLikeToSnipe
Nodlied
Inferno
Mojoman
TheIrishMan

Assuming that Nodlied is Town, then only one of the remaining members can be Town, but you guys have been mostly concerned about Inferno and iLTS. If those two are who you're concerned about, then we can just lynch Shade.

Reasoning: So if Inferno is actually Scum, he's pushing a lynch against iLTS which means that iLTS is actually Town. The main benefit I could see about him fake confirming me as Town is to try and make certain that we lynch iLTS, leaving less variables.

If iLTS is Scum, he's mostly pushed Mojo, which would mean that Mojo is Town.

So basically, if we lynch Shade, we can't lose.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I've been thinking the same, actually.

The rub though is, won't we have to deal with that question at some point no matter what?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

And here's another thing, if iLTS being scum means Mojo is Town, doesn't that make BOTH iLTS and Inferno Scum?

[TheIrishman]

2 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I've been thinking the same, actually.

The rub though is, won't we have to deal with that question at some point no matter what?

True, but if Inferno is the Cop, he'll most likely die which would serve to better confirm his theory. And it'll keep the game going. Right now we're in a situation where we'll be at LYLO for the remainder of the game since the Doctor's died. Assuming we're correct. The Town players left should be Cat5, Nodlied, and me. Either Inferno or iLTS is the remaining Town player.

1 hour ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

And here's another thing, if iLTS being scum means Mojo is Town, doesn't that make BOTH iLTS and Inferno Scum?

Yeah, that does have some problems with it. Perhaps iLTS was trying to soft push Mojo but then switch to me since I'm 2nd on his list? The only other concern I'd have is that Nodlied isn't actually who ChopBam protected, meaning Nodlied could be the other Scum, but the chances of that seem to be much lower.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Scum could "WIFOM game" that and make it appear Inferno is scum by not killing him, which would cause suspicion to fall on him and call his results into question. Or scum Inferno could claim it was a WIFOM game. I mean, by the scum team apparently choosing not to kill Inferno last night, we're already in that territory today. By deciding to avoid lynching either iLTS or Inferno, we're looking at a situation where we absolutely will wind up with Inferno and iLTS and then one other town person as the final three, and that last person will have to decide which is the scum. 

I figure the only way Inferno dies is if either you or Nodlied are scum, which I highly doubt.

We're going to have to decide which we think it is at some point or another. I don't like how iLTS being scum now brings up contradictions and theories that have Inferno as scum don't, but I also don't like how theories that help iLTS or Shade have to be thought up by me, rather than them coming up with it themselves.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Being conspiratorial like this generally doesn't go well, but then there was that one game where I really needed to be conspiratorial and lost at LYLO, and I'll never forget that blunder.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Guess this is a good time to ask, though, who would support switching the lynch to Shade instead?

[iLikeToSnipe]

5 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Guess this is a good time to ask, though, who would support switching the lynch to Shade instead?

I'm not sure if I would. My gut feeling is that either Mojo or Shade is mafia, not both, and I'm leaning towards Mojo as the scummier player.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I have to commit to a vote now as I'm leaving for work.

While I still have iLTS as my top scum suspect, the possibility that Inferno is scum actually makes me less certain about iLTS than I am Shade, so I'm going with Shade even though he's my #2 suspect. I think this'll be the safer option as I cannot come up with a realistic scum team that does not have Shade on it.

##vote Shade939