Interim Apex IA Forgotten -Infantry Ideas

[Raptor29aa]

I've been playing IA for a while now and I haven't paid much attention to the faction forgotten. So recently I tried to use forgotten infantry units whenever I could, and I have a few ideas to spice them up... or at least make their price tag and time it takes to capture the forgotten hub worth the effort. Thus I will discuss each unit below.

1. 150$ Mutant Assault : Not much can be done with this guy to improve, he's the cheapest and he regenerates in tiberium... he's basically a purchasable visceriod. (Ironically it would be funny if he turned into one on death)

2. 550$ Mutant Scavenger : This unit is fairly flat... it's just an overpriced engineer, except engineers pack more explosives, get better pistol headshots, and the free ones can build an ok/poor quality rifle turret. Thus I was thinking give him something unique, maybe a forgotten turret like a flame thrower or disc/grenade launching turret, something to be proud of. I'll go as far as to say remove the C4. I've not seen it used and besides there is the demolisher unit for stationary explosives anyways.

3. 650$ Mutant Assassin : I like this character except he has one big drawback he has to go to a tiberium field to heal, which makes him vulernable, because most of them are either in the open, in a valley, or lacking cover. Not very ideal for a sniper. So I was thinking give him an RPO-A Shmel (if I remember correctly in tiberian sun the forgotten often fired rockets). It doesn't have much range but it will say stay back to anything that may drive up on him.

4. 700$ Mutant Demolisher : He is rather fun to play, but lacks one important thing... self defense. And no I know what you are thinking... I am by no means saying give him a gun, that idea would be absurd, I would rather see him have a self destruct weapon or have more C4 explosives than that. What I would like to see is him have is a knife attack, but call it tiberium claws or something catchy. I tried to infiltrate and detonate a building with him once. And I found I either had to waste the C4 on the attackers or place it on the MCT and try and stand in the way of it's defusing. I jumped around like a moron and died with no building destruction.

5. 850$ Mutant templar : I found this unit a well rounded and very versatile unit. He is like Dr. Mobius, but with a machine gun and longer range. The range and accuracy make this unit worth the price as it does good damage to infantry and light vehicles. The templar is unique and fits well in it's nitch. I have no suggestions at this time.

6. 1,000$ Mutant Marauder : I am not sure where to start with this unit. It's a large, slow, and a semi-effective unit. I say semi-effective because he does less damage than Sydney or Ravishaw and is unaffected by upgrades (last I checked). The two units like him surpass him and can be upgraded to really surpass him. Sydney and Ravishaw also move faster and are smaller targets. To make matters worse the Marauder has a harder time dodging, finding cover, and combating infantry. I tried infiltration with him to see if I could use him in a non-field environment, and found the plasma gun does too much self damage for most indoor scenarios (that and the combined previously mentioned issues with mobility). This unit is not worthy of a 1,000$ price tag. It is a nice attempt at an apex forgotten unit, it looks big, tank like, and scary... till it moves slowly and fires its' gun.

Recommendations for the Marauder. Option 1, he could get an ammo and hp boost to make him a endurance character. Also it's fun to be a constant pain in the butt. Even if your DPS is not at optimal efficiency. The low damage already exhausts ammo, yet the downside is someone on the other team can be a pain in the butt if the forgotten hub changes sides.  Option 2, His plasma gun could be repurposed in a way unlike the portable ion cannon or rail gun; the plasma gun could have a slower projectile, but higher damaging projectile. Meaning light and fast vehicles (also helicopters) can dodge the shot, but larger ones won't. This would work well for stationary artillery, mammoths, tick tanks, and anything not moving. It would fill a nitch. The downside would still be infantry combat. Option 3, increase the plasma gun's range. this would make field domination easier (no need to leave the tib field) and increase the effectiveness against aircraft (which Syndey and Ravishaw already have). The downside would be the weapon out ranging minor base defenses. Option 4, add more grenades. This would be useful for both field combat and close quarters, since he cannot hurt himself with tiberium grenades. If not incendiary or emp are both nice touches to add for grenades. The downside would be increased efficiency against infantry (and emp grenades would make him devastating against tanks).

I hope to see the discussions these ideas generate.

[Threve]

On 5/12/2019 at 1:26 AM, Raptor29aa said:

I hope to see the discussions these ideas generate.

I love your suggestions and fully agree with all that you talked about in terms of their weakness's and strengths. I will say as a whole that it's (the Forg units) are just lacking in general but great post! I think you're unto something here.

[Veyrdite]

I've only really ever tried the marauders, and I too found them slow + limited.  Since then I've avoided the forgotten, assuming they are all like this.  I'll give the templar a go, thankyou.

I believe Kaskins/Dblaney told me at some point that a set of unique buildables for the forgotten was planned.

Related reading: some references to forgotten plans were made by Kaskins in the 'extra tier-0 troops' topic.

[Kaskins]

Hi @Raptor29aa thank you for the feedbacks. However before I proceed further I would like to clarified all infantry will be review again by me after I roll out the 2020 build I am targeting to bring up all the map to latest E06 to standardize it all the maps.

As for Forgotten Units when I first explore I wanted something different from Nod and GDI gameplay style. It seems tricky to find the balance ground I am looking for but the closest one are Mutant Scavenger, Mutant Templar & Mutant Demolisher. They play in a different way compared to your regular GDI & Nod. This does apply to its vehicle which is why atm is not that great with Forgotten Tanks.

Mutant Assault - Bare essential I still don't know what to do with him but I got a rough idea which require some R&D to see if it works. The idea based on the info of from Project ReGenesis. Upon before the brink of death, he drop his weapon and gain a 100% health back ( without shield ) and he become a berserker and become excel in hand of hand combat before basically a more powerful version of fist attack from rifleman. And as the time goes his health slowly deplete before he succumb to his injury, yes you may try infinite refill and good luck leaving the base lol. This passive was a reference from LoL https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/champions/Tryndamere/

Mutant Scavenger - Suppose to be an Engineer for Forgotten but is missing some build able stuff. He was missing a weapon called blowtorch ( yes a weapon from battlefield vietnam ) to cut the armor of enemy tank, his blowtorch which also to generate income to salvage wreckage or husk of a vehicle by turning it into cash ( Not conform yet ). I am still thinking if is a nice fit or not. Other than that he is able to grow tiberium crystals by cultivating & growing Blossom Tree.

Mutant Assassin - Yes Forgotten version of sniper which uses tiberium instead of lead. I want it to be a field supporter but again his weak health and require constant cover as the map now is very open. He has one ability missing which I am planning to find a way to put it in. I am thinking it of giving him a stealth mode when his not moving or shooting or he has an ability to duplicate himself so making him a mirage?

Mutant Demolishes - Yes the one crazy mutant with a lot of timed bomb and c4 to blow up half of the enemy base. His basically a Siege Unit. Funny enough his missing dynamites I guess his already good. I don't think a Suicide Bomber fit in Forgotten unit but I understand tho.

Mutant Templar - Yes machine gunner-tank which can be a lay down suppressing fire to enemy if they stay out in open for too long with a high rate of fire it can clear out some stuff. I am still thinking about his roll and his style conflict with Legion.

Mutant Marauder - This one is tricky as he has a unique plasma gun like Banshee, Plasma weapon is a feature in IA which have not come to its fruition as Plasma weaponry ( all Plasma based weapon and harmonic resonance is to ignore the vehicle shield and straight hurt and damage is health. If you have 0 health but your shield is up you die. ) Is one of the many units I am thinking of is weapon to bypass shield entirely. But I haven't find a good balance of what projectile ignore certain type of armor based as I have to R&D armor.ini. Is going to be a lot of work.

There are 3 more units for Forgotten I haven't include in such as

-Mutant Legion ( think of him as a tank in LoL or Dota ) which equipped with shield that well protects him ( equivalent to Sentinel and Shield Bearer ). He is also capable of providing field health packs & ammo drop. The melee unit of Forgotten Unit *Tank-Support Class

-Mutant Fiend Master ( Imagine yourself as a K-9 Officer and you have more than 1 dogs, now imagine if the Dogs are Mutant Fiend that follow you like mypet.mp3 ) is on To-Do List which is like officer class system which is still pending. *Officer Class  - Which can be anti-tank/anti-infantry for Fiend/visceroid?

-Mutant Javelin, name sounds like throwing spear but was based off the name from RA3 Allied Javelin Soldier, instead of having equipped with FGM-148 Javelin which is a weapon to be made into the game, he will be equipped with something called Thundersticks out of Mad Max which is a reference, but I am going to name it something else in game. ( Pending model ). *Anti-Tank Class

There was a 4th and 5th infantry idea bouncing around but I haven't got anything solid yet.

 

[Raptor29aa]

@Kaskins I definitely enjoyed the post. I had no idea you guys were doing level overhauls. Sounds awesome!

So on the topic of the forgotten they are definitely different than GDI or Nod already but there are some crossovers. GDI and Nod both have some tiberium weapons. Nod has a couple of mutants. 

What I think makes the forgotten unique is that their skill sets and strange presence.  For example The Demolisher’s shatchel charge. The Templar’s suppressive fire tib chain gun. Or the speed at which the Assult unit moves with the chem-thrower. It’s enough to make an opponent jump. The forgotten are definitely specialists.

as for the possible plans, I like the Scavenger idea of husks to cash. As for he Assassin I was thinking mirage tank technology, so he would look a tiberium crystal. The mutant legion could have a lot of tiberium grenades along with his melee primary, since grenades would supply health to forgotten infantry.

Anyways most of my suggestions were just quick fixes/band aids for the current version. I am glad you posted your overhaul vision. Thumbs up