Discuss [GAME OVER] Apocalypse Rising Mafia II: Dark Night

[Category5]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

You're way more fixated on this alternative than necessary, in my opinion. Right now logically the best case is on FRAYDO, but my emotions go out to the innocent boy that's crying out for mercy inside, even if that innocent boy isn't real. For now my vote is with the logical side rather than the emotional side.

Choosing the "emotional" side means choosing an alternative theory. Maybe not a specific one, but it does mean that you are rejecting the one that has been laid out.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Choosing the "emotional" side means choosing an alternative theory. Maybe not a specific one, but it does mean that you are rejecting the one that has been laid out.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway

That said, because I simply can't resist talking about Fire Emblem, got my first C level support with someone this morning, Linhardt of all people.  Was not expecting that.

[Category5]

It's mostly annoying to me, because before Coolrock confirmed my suspicions that he tried to target Louis, I did have an alternative theory that would have fit perfectly with what we know.

[Retaliation]

My alternative theory is that scum did hit some kind of NK immune TP and the reason FRAYDO seems so innocent is because he's scum getting screwed by coincidence.

[Jeod]

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

That said, because I simply can't resist talking about Fire Emblem, got my first C level support with someone this morning, Linhardt of all people.  Was not expecting that.

Keep it up. To get character development you have to *gasp* talk to people!

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Retaliation said:

My alternative theory is that scum did hit some kind of NK immune TP and the reason FRAYDO seems so innocent is because he's scum getting screwed by coincidence.

Possible... but requires more assumptions than our current path, but also doesn't really matter because it leads to the same place

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Jeod said:

Keep it up. To get character development you have to *gasp* talk to people!

I mean I guess it makes sense.  I think it happened shortly after I invited him to a meal to get his motivation up.  He seems to be my medic, and I figured it'd be a Good Idea (TM) to train the medic a lot.

[FRAYDO]

16 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Right now logically the best case is on FRAYDO, but my emotions go out to the innocent boy that's crying out for mercy inside, even if that innocent boy isn't real. For now my vote is with the logical side rather than the emotional side.

I would feel bad manipulating you through an emotional argument. I would tell you to follow your logical side.

17 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

You're way more fixated on this alternative than necessary, in my opinion.

I would also look more at Cat 5 after today if you think these are some scummy vibes.

[ChopBam]

19 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Choosing the "emotional" side means choosing an alternative theory. Maybe not a specific one, but it does mean that you are rejecting the one that has been laid out.

As much as I don't want to agree with KY, it also doesn't sit right with me how unanimous this train is. I mean, Mojo could be the alternative, or Anon_Kat, or KY, I guess? The fraydo-was-blocked-and-is-scum theory still relies on the idea that he also has a partner. How strong is the theory anyway, when "I don't know" can work as a good alternative? I've been burned as a town player before as the perfectly logical lynch choice due to unfortunate circumstances. I'll be happy if he's lynched as a spy, but I would not be totally okay with it if he was lynched as town and I didn't bring all this up beforehand.

[ChopBam]

THAT ALL SAID, it also doesn't sit right with me how FRAYDO opened up his defense case today, and threatened then fired a shot.

[OrangeP47]

3 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

As much as I don't want to agree with KY, it also doesn't sit right with me how unanimous this train is. I mean, Mojo could be the alternative, or Anon_Kat, or KY, I guess? The fraydo-was-blocked-and-is-scum theory still relies on the idea that he also has a partner. How strong is the theory anyway, when "I don't know" can work as a good alternative? I've been burned as a town player before as the perfectly logical lynch choice due to unfortunate circumstances. I'll be happy if he's lynched as a spy, but I would not be totally okay with it if he was lynched as town and I didn't bring all this up beforehand.

I mean, there's an extensive list of other people who are also probably baddies, but that doesn't make the case on FRAYDO any less strong nessiarily.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

I mean, there's an extensive list of other people who are also probably baddies, but that doesn't make the case on FRAYDO any less strong nessiarily.

There is a 0% chance the game is over if we kill scum!FRAYDO here.  But it's a start.

[ChopBam]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean, there's an extensive list of other people who are also probably baddies, but that doesn't make the case on FRAYDO any less strong nessiarily.

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

There is a 0% chance the game is over if we kill scum!FRAYDO here.  But it's a start.

Even so, it's a good exercise when narrowing in the first baddie to seek valid scum partners. It can help with narrowing in the first baddie.

[Retaliation]

If FRAYDO is scum mojo and KY are on the top of my list for possible partners.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Even so, it's a good exercise when narrowing in the first baddie to seek valid scum partners. It can help with narrowing in the first baddie.

Point, but I feel as if we have too little evidence to really draw any conclusions until we resolve FRAYDO.  At that time, we're able to look at others interactions with him in a new light and perhaps parse if they are scum or town.  Until that point, convincing arguments for either way can be made and we're just talking to hear the sound of our own voice (as much as I like that).

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Retaliation said:

If FRAYDO is scum mojo and KY are on the top of my list for possible partners.

Another part of me feels the associations are pretty obvious.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Another part of me feels the associations are pretty obvious.

Except Anon, who has posted FOUR times, two of which could have literally been smacking his face into the keyboard and pressing Send.

[ChopBam]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

Point, but I feel as if we have too little evidence to really draw any conclusions until we resolve FRAYDO.  At that time, we're able to look at others interactions with him in a new light and perhaps parse if they are scum or town.  Until that point, convincing arguments for either way can be made and we're just talking to hear the sound of our own voice (as much as I like that).

That's a fair point, and it's not like we're at MYLO.

[Category5]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

Another part of me feels the associations are pretty obvious.

Or, on the flipside, if FRAYDO really is town, the ones making the noise about him being town might be the ones who know that he is.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Or, on the flipside, if FRAYDO really is town, the ones making the noise about him being town might be the ones who know that he is.

That's kinda what I meant by "convincing arguments can be made either way".  You can literally make any argument you, if you try hard enough, so it's really pointless to try to do so before we even are done with Step 1.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

That's kinda what I meant by "convincing arguments can be made either way".  You can literally make any argument you, if you try hard enough, so it's really pointless to try to do so before we even are done with Step 1.

*you can literally make any argument you want

[OrangeP47]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

*you can literally make any argument you want

So really, we're not bound by truth, but our own personal biases.  How's that for being unhelpful.

[Retaliation]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Or, on the flipside, if FRAYDO really is town, the ones making the noise about him being town might be the ones who know that he is.

I think comparing the resistance to voting Louis vs FRAYDO is going to be instructive later on. I feel you and I were more concrete about why Louis was probably a building vs scum. For FRAYDO we're seeing a lot of "he sounds so innocent" which isn't all that productive.

[Category5]

Right, which is why FRAYDO is right that with the position he is in, he's the default lynch regardless of which alignment he actually is. We can't start knocking the logic dominoes down until we get a flip from somewhere. Unless you want to start with Louis's lynch, I suppose.

[Category5]

Just now, Retaliation said:

I think comparing the resistance to voting Louis vs FRAYDO is going to be instructive later on. I feel you and I were more concrete about why Louis was probably a building vs scum. For FRAYDO we're seeing a lot of "he sounds so innocent" which isn't all that productive.

We're way too in sync again.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Right, which is why FRAYDO is right that with the position he is in, he's the default lynch regardless of which alignment he actually is. We can't start knocking the logic dominoes down until we get a flip from somewhere. Unless you want to start with Louis's lynch, I suppose.

We have too many people either trying to put the cart before the horse, or keep the cart in the stable entirely, to use one of my patented farm metaphors.

[FRAYDO]

27 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

If FRAYDO is scum mojo and KY are on the top of my list for possible partners.

And if FRAYDO is not scum, that could be the team. However, KY sympathized with me and voted No Lynch. I’m not sure he would out himself that easily.

I will flip Conscript so we should look forward going with that result.

[ChopBam]

24 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

So really, we're not bound by truth, but our own personal biases.

Does my approach seek the truth too hard?

[OrangeP47]

3 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Does my approach seek the truth too hard?

You can't get to the truth without doing the work.