Category 5 Hurricane

Shade's still talking as if he's doomed. Which I suppose he may be if it turns out that iLTS is town, but how does he know that? At the same time, iLTS doesn't seem bothered about being the #1 target. This is starting to look questionable.

I don't have a policy of listening to what AUM says. I'll determine if it's a good idea on my own. If it is a good idea, it'll have nothing to do with him.

Gonna be away for a bit, but I'm thinking four different paths right now and I'm trying to figure out which one helps us the most. #1 Shade, #2 iLTS #1 iLTS, #2 Shade #1 K_Y, #2 Shade #1 K_Y, #2 iLTS

Excuse me, what was that, Alternate Universe Man? I have to admit that I was going to suggest iLTS over KY for #1, but I've now got some evidence that's piling against you that it making me rethink that.

Killing_You volunteering himself is certainly interesting, but I feel like something is off about that. I need to do a review.

Yeah, but you just said that you might "actually survive" which suggests to me that Orangep47's suggestion you replied to is the only one you think you'll survive.

Are you suggesting you won't survive if you are the #1?

Fuck, seriously? I said earlier that I could easily prove myself, and that involved you copping me again while I use Ashera's action on you, which would then be ensure to happen and be accurate. I suppose I can still do that and ensure the accuracy of your target, whichever it is.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT. What if I caused the NK to fail? That would still fit the facts, wouldn't it? Infact I think it would fit the facts better because we had no explanation for why I would not have caused Shade to fail his action. We do not know that he targeted Nodlied with anything.

I'm not sure this warrants a mass claim. I can prove my other ability easily enough, and while either FRAYDO or OrangeP47 might have targeted me, if a scum player messed with my action, they could also just not talk about it.

Do you have another action that you might have done instead?

That's all I was told as well. Didn't even specify the target. I specifically used it on you, partly because I don't trust you, and partly because I wanted to see how it affects an "expected" action. I say "expected" because you declared the action and target in advance. It's a good point that Jeod saw you visit him. I forgot that part. So apparently that much at least is correct? Now I'm wondering if I actually hit my target.

Bus drivers don't leave any indications that the players were switched, and mine may have altered yours silently as well. And given that the results in Jeod's and Nodlied's case would have been the same either way, it's not possible to know what happened for sure. So the reactions should mean nothing.

The other thing is that I don't know exactly how he's effected. He could have bussed two different people, for example, or did another action.

Well, I guess...it's weird actually. I guess Jeod would have reported as if he was watching Nodlied instead. I guess we don't know whether it worked or not, though I would say that unless something happened to me that I don't know about, Shade should have failed.

That might be what actually happened, yes. Jeod said his watching action did report Nodlied visiting him even though Nodlied should have only visited himself.

My character choice for this game is Ashunera, one of many gods of the Fire Emblem universe. (Specifically from Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn) Ashunera is actually a combination of two gods, one called Ashera, an Order god, and Yune, a Chaos god. My roles are based on both these gods. As Ashera, I'm the sort of the opposite of a roleblocker. I guarantee the success of the taken action (as long as it's possible, I suppose) and also guarantee the accuracy of the action as well. So It's also a counter to false or misleading reports. Because I have this action, I think there may be cops that receive inaccurate reports. We also have had two reports of failed actions and also a roleblocker that we don't know is town, so it looks like there are lots of ways this role can be useful. As Yune, I cause my target to be more likely to fail their action. How they fail depends on what their action is, and the specifics on that are hidden from me (because to tell me would confirm what roles exist) but examples I came up with while suggesting the character were that the player would be forced to use a different actions if possible, or a different target if that was not possible. I suppose that's too close to a bus driver and that's why the role doesn't work as I designed. I was also told there would potentially be negative effects to me if I used the action. Given that you have a non-town result on me, this could mean that one of the effects of using this action is that I appear as non-town. That would make sense because Yune was considered an evil god for most of the two games she was involved in. I did use the Yune action this time. The target was Shade.

Heh, interesting. Assuming that is a true claim, I actually have two reasons for why you may have gotten that result.

I didn't know anybody visited me. Do you have indication to why it failed?

No. I've already answered this. Why are you asking again?

Great, so we wind up with a repeat of last game where there isn't a nightkill, and a we get a roleblocker claim, and now we have to figure out if the blocked player is the reason why there was a failed kill. Killing_You wasn't under any kind of pressure, so it wouldn't seem that he's falsifying the claim, yet Sunflower did exactly the same thing. At the same time, I do wonder if Shade is on to something by suggesting that perhaps the NK didn't happen because the scum team didn't want to risk hitting itself. As long as Shade isn't Mafia, this would make sense to me, as they'd have to believe his claim to be true.

Alright, I think I should be one of the ##NoLynch votes then. I won't be around to do any switching, so this is probably the best place for my vote.

Because he's talked even less than either of you but has also provided what I consider to be a more reasonable excuse for why he hasn't been doing much. That said, no, there isn't much difference between you.

WARNING FOR USERS NAMED VOE OR ANYONE ELSE TRIGGERED BY LONG POSTS: INCOMING JUMBO CAT5 POST In practice at Mafia Universe, a mafia player who was asked this question at point blank actually refused to to say no, and instead said something along the lines of "well, I'm not exactly scum" which naturally just led to people asking for more detail and he kept walking himself further into a corner until there was no doubt that he was scum. He was so worried about being caught lying that he couldn't even lie about his alignment when asked this simple question. So following the logic of the Mafia Universe (as opposed to either the true universe or the Shade multiverse), this seemingly simple question actually can be really awkward to answer, especially if the question is presented as a joke. So, people who answered this flatly with a "no" or similar hard negative are more likely to be town. People who respond with a joke of their own or not make a direct answer are more likely to be scum. You can't take this info at face value, of course, especially in this case where I probably shouldn't have signaled that I was actually trying something, so I may have devalued my own attempt before I got anything meaningful out of it. More likely town: OrangeP47 Shade939 ChopBam Less likely town: Killing_You FRAYDO iLikeToSnipe At the very least, I'll want to compare this list when we are done to see how effective it was. This discussion kinda went out the window once Shade said Shade things, but I don't really agree with your general argument versus Jeod. Scum!Jeod is usually digging for information about others, not tossing out smoke screens that do not really change anything for town and makes scum wonder which claim is true. I didn't see any signal towards alignment, but I saw multiple signals about roles, and this looks like an attempt to confuse scum if you ask me. I don't know where you are getting this. It's clear you and Shade are not teamed, but OrangeP47 is just doing his usual "explain Shade to people not used to his portable multiverse that he lives in" which has always made me feel like he's trying to make a cover for him all the time. And I'm not the only one. I answered the question that way, because the question that was asked of me was slightly altered. Instead of asking the proper umbrella question of "r u scum" , he asked me if I was Mafia or Third Party. Since he asked me an either/or question instead of a yes/no, the only appropriate answer was neither. That's why I yelled at him for doing it wrong the first time. He didn't ask the correct question. There might be more to it than I'm aware of, but in the MU Championship game I participated in, one of the players in the game who was very antagonistic would reply "EAT PANT" to pretty much anyone who had an argument with him. It was irritating because all he did was signal that he didn't like what you were saying but couldn't be bothered to say why or actually counter the argument. Naturally, he was town and got lynched. We lost that game. Initially I thought this was a pretty awesome move, but then.... These thoughts aren't very consistent. If you were thinking it was a ruse to draw out a day action, why did you use it? (Obviously the next sentence is your answer to that, but this still got my attention) If you're only going to roleblock him if you are convinced he's going to shoot somebody who's town, why did you jump on him so quickly this time? Holy shit, this is amazing. I'm really struggling to think of why a town person would want to ask this question in this situation (publicly, at least). I mean, sure, it's something to be curious about, but it (probably) helps Mafia the most to know the answer to this question. As Town, it's better to wait and see, because there isn't anything you can do about it anyway. That said, I was once in a game where there was a lynch-triggered day vig who we lynched mid game to prove his role and also get a second flip from his target at the same time (the first CYOR at BHP, if I recall). In that case, it was useful to know who he would kill, because there was nothing the Mafia could do about it. It's all about who it helps. I don't even...what universe are you getting this stuff from? You just declared a player is trying to get targeted by scum, and then voted for him. You do understand that means that you think you are voting for someone who isn't scum? Who cares?! If he's a lying about his abilities as town, that's good for town! (Well, so long as he doesn't cause undue confusion about things as a result, but I don't think that is happening here) You are revealing that you believe the roleclaim with this line of thought. And it doesn't make sense. If we believe he's a town vig, why the fuck wouldn't we leave him alive? Even if Jeod doesn't have his own protection, he probably will receive some support. Even failing that, Mafia, if they believe his claim, are likely to think he'll be protected, so he's actually got a good shot of surviving. I'm pretty sure someone already said these exact words, but how does it make sense for you to make the argument that he should use his ability before he can be eliminated when you've been trying to eliminate him yourself to prevent exactly that scenario? These last two posts were not very far apart, yet they disagree with each other. He's trying to sneak a neutral claim in there now. Are we closing in on a Third Party claim again? Is this where we are going? I have no OBJECTIONs! I like this, this is a good idea. Hell, I've done this before. If he's lying, it'll blow up in his face right away. I'm learning towards doing this. I have a couple reasons why not to do this right now, but I think the pros beat the cons. Reasons not to: Limited usages Shade looks pretty damn scummy Reasons to do it: If Shade is actually not scum, it would be nice to not lynch him early again Reduces risk to nill on the lynch that is generally least likely to get a scum. Might wind up with a clear player in Shade if he's town (though we still can't lock him down to one universe) We need to coordinate the vote, though, to make sure the order is correct and can't be messed with around hammer. Looking beyond Shade, I'm a little bit suspicious of K_Y, iLTS, and VERT. I already mentioned iLTS, but K_Y and VERT have kinda looked like spectators waiting for something to happen that they can safely jump on.

Probably actually California.