Category 5 Hurricane

Mojoman has only done one thing all game that I consider pro-town, which was shoot at iLTS. However, iLTS might have considered himself lost and asked to get bussed, so even that might not be pro-town. He supported the "traditional" Voe lynch on Day 1, also tried to vote Nolynch, tried to tie Voe and GeneralCamo as scum team, and tried to lead a Nodlied train based on the idea that Mojoman seemed to know that Nodlied should have known that something happened to him. I don't have any weapons to fire, so I can't assist.

I'm sorry I didn't see your response before. That is an incredibly well thought out response, and I consider it very viable.

I wanted to say "Carefully"! That's my line, dammit! It's going to be a 50/50 shot for scum tonight. They probably know they have two people they need to attack, with apparently two cop roles present, and they have to pick one of them. But they probably also know there is at least one person who can prevent the kill if Voe doesn't pull a scum out of a hat again. They're going to have to guess which target doesn't get defended.

Yeah, he had me totally fooled. He was the clearest town in my mind for most of the game, until Voe was verified as a rolecop and then OWA was #2. He was asking questions that he could just ask his scummates in a mafia doc (assuming it's open during the day, which is not typical of mafia games in general but has been typical in VERTi60 games) and was generally agreeing with me. I admit that is all it took to convince me. Also, forget any plan I was thinking of. I forgot part of Voe's role was roleblocking, so it won't work. And I was relying on the existence of a role that I can only guess exists By the way, we've just had triattack claim he was visited and had info pulled from him. Given that such an action just happened to me, that would imply two people can do that. That would also imply both were vanilla mafia roles, which would further imply 4 mafia players. So I think we have three things to consider with that. Either triattack is saying the truth and there are four mafia, or he's lying and he's trying to cover for himself, or I'm lying and covering for myself, or at least one of those is a town role. I'm pretty sure I know which of these things is most likely.

OWA being locked up and there being no kill tonight at the same time is almost too good to be true. I think there may be multiple other reasons why a kill failed, though. Regardless, OWA is now the one I'm most interested in. His posts have made me lean heavily towards "new town" as he's acting almost the same way I did in my first game, but he could also be a very good mafia player despite claiming no experience. I'm not confident enough to place a vote at this point.

This is a dilemma. He could be a scum fishing for a cop counter-claim, but he could be telling the truth and is claiming super prematurely and also made the mistake of not checking himself, making his results useless to us. Either way, this is super, super, bad for us. I want to prevent a town counter-claim, check a potential town-FRAYDO role-sanity (cop roles sometimes give false results, so you should investigate yourself first), and verify FRAYDO's role, all in one go. So I'm devising a plan based on what I think I know. Before I say what it is, I want to know if Voe is willing to cooperate with this plan. You're essential to it. If you don't trust me, there isn't any point in pursuing it. It'll take four people doing exactly as I say for this to work and give the scum the least wiggle room. And then we have to find another lynch target. In my estimation, in a town-FRAYDO world, scum must be 1 or more of, Nodlied, OWA, or triattack. Mojoman is probably only scum if scum think town has a night kill. Of those three, triattack is the one I'm most suspicious of, and OWA is the least.

One pressure post and you open up with a cop claim at this stage, and you supposedly didn't check your own records first? No matter what you are, this is going to be big. Goddammit, I don't believe this claim, but if I'm wrong it's going to be sooo bad. I'm going to have to put a lot of thought into this, and I don't have the time for it right now.

I particularly want to see more from FRAYDO today. By my count, he's made one post that made more than idle commentary in it, and that one post went largely against what I'm thinking about this game.

That depends on the nature of the role that protected the attack and what VERTi60 decides to do with it. For example, if a bodyguard were to protect the attacked player, the bodyguard and mafia player would likely both get notifications if they survived, but not the defended player. If a doc protected the attacked player, probably only the player who was attacked would get a notification. Similarly with a role that hands out Bullet Proofing, only the attacked player would likely get a notification. But none of this is guaranteed. VERTi60 can choose when and where to reveal things to the player however he sees fit.

Huh, that's kind of odd. But only kind of. Scum had a pretty obvious target, and they may have chosen to go for it rather than worry about him being protected. He was very likely protected, and scum just lost the role that would may have allowed a protection bypass. I was also in one game semi-recently where scum was part indecisive, part inactive, and failed to send the kill on time. So, I suppose that is possible as well. I wouldn't put much weight on that, though. The Allies were most likely prevented from attacking or the target was protected by something. There are a few other possibilities, I suppose, like only 1 mafia left and he chose to use a role instead. I had something happen to me last night, but given the context I'm unsure if it's a bad thing or good thing. Some "info" was taken from me, which could mean all manner of things. I'm leaning towards it being a mafia role, perhaps a mafia rolecop or maybe an Allied Spy taking my role as an identity. I would be a bit surprised if a town player used an "investigative" role on me at this point, otherwise I might not have said anything.

I'm kinda glad iLikeToSnipe decided to shoot Generalcamo. I had decided that Gencam was an Allied Tech Center, a building that, in my mind, could potentially track people through GPS Satellite, and was doing some odd gambit to back up iLTS by claiming stuff we already knew. iLTS called the unlynchable role ahead of time, afterall. I figured he could do that for free if he already knew that info by being his scummate. I was going to push to take Gencam down, but now I don't have to do that. Thanks, iLTS! You stopped me falling on my face tomorrow! Now I'll just have to find another way to do that! I have basically 0 leads to go on now, so odds are better than not that I'll be stupid tomorrow. If I survive that long. "Meta-gamers" can't go unpunished, afterall. He didn't get lynched by meta. He got lynched because he didn't fit his claim to the meta that everyone else can see. We all know that roles don't always work as advertised, but they probably do. It makes it a pretty good bet. Can't complain about meta gaming. Meta gaming will always exist. That's how counter claims work, for example. "You can't be that because I am!" is a basic meta argument. "You can't have done this because that happened!" is one too. One that was used today. It could be wrong. But it probably isn't. If you always assume you know nothing, you'll never know anything.

I'm not sure why you keep saying that image was made for another game. The image was first posted with these words around it. There's a couple things here you need to pay attention to. The first is where he says, "will be used in the next game". As in this game. He then describes, "this game now offers new concept [...] Soviet RPG Soldier". We can confirm there is/was a unit of this type in this game, because he's dead. Is that not enough to confirm that the list was made for this game? But wait! There is more! The image itself has some clues to that "mystery". Next to battle phase actions, it says, "via Forum chat in game". That doesn't sound like chat mafia. Next to plan phase actions, it says, "via Private Messenger to Game Moderator". Definitely not chat mafia. As far as whether or not you have a custom role that VERTi60 assigned to you? Yeah, you might. But I don't think you do. I believe custom roles are for units not listed. They'd receive a new name. I could be wrong, I freely admit. I believe normally a jailed player cannot be acted on by anyone else, though that doesn't mean VERTi60 does it that way. If he did, Gencam's claim is impossible if we believe Voe. You have confirmed Voe's action, so we don't have to wonder about that. As far as placing C4, that depends on whether or not that is considered unblockable or not. It doesn't say it is, so I'm likely wrong about that. It's just a minor theory I'm throwing around. Voe, I meant he placed a trap on you for the next person to visit you to get killed by. Seems like a good idea if scum were to expect a cop to investigate Voe right off the bat. I have more to say, but I must leave for work now. ##vote iLikeToSnipe

Thanks for not killing me and thanks in advance for never trying to do that again. What I think is going on here is that Voe is entirely truthful. He's a town jailer and he jailed iLTS. I also think that the multiple claims iLTS has made are impossible. We know that iLTS is an Engineer. We don't know which side. iLTS Claims are as follows: He attempted to visit Chaos. He could have saved Chaos. He was stopped from doing so. He knows multiple people visited him. He can visit people. He did not create a custom role. This combination of claims is impossible. If he is an Engineer (which we know), he can't target other players. If he is an Engineer (which we know), he cannot protect anyone, so he couldn't save Chaos. I also think it's impossible for him to be visited by others when locked up, though I'm not certain of that. It's not really important anyway. Well, it might matter later in regards to someone else's argument, but for the sake of focusing on one target at a time, I'm leaving that out. So, looking at the standard Soviet Engineer, his claims are impossible. However If he was an Allied Engineer instead, we're getting closer to likely. The Allied Engineer can indeed visit people. Indeed, I would not be surprised if the actual order of events was iLTS placing C4 at Voe as an unstoppable kill, and then Chaos visited Voe and was killed. Suddenly the mystery of the odd targeting of a quiet player makes more sense. He knew right away he was going to have to explain himself and tried to get a word in right away before whoever jailed him started ripping him apart, ignoring the shot at me. He's been on edge all day, and he tried to get ahead of it by inventing a claim that he gathered from the extended knowledge that scum teams get from each other as his last bet and probably got one to invent a claim to back him up. He either didn't know he painted himself into a corner, or did so intentionally so that he could get lynched quick to avoid others getting caught up in it. I'll be back before hammer, but unless something magically stupid happens, I'm voting iLTS.

So we're looking for three allies? That is suspicious as i think it was no where mentioned that there where 3 spies so explain yourself. Scum teams usually consist of 25% of the players. We have 10 players, 25% of which is 2.5, rounded up is 3. Since nodlied did indeed retract his vote, I: ##Vote NoLynch 25% is higher typical as far as I understand, though I admit that VERTi60 seems to typically use 25%. Indeed, the number of mafia in this game is supposed to be one of the bigger mysteries of the game, yet you casually dropped a number without much thought, announced two suspects off the bat, and now want to vote for neither after you get called for it. Typical mafia players are unwilling to commit to their own reasoning as they know when they are "wrong" and can't risk being seen as directly leading to bad lynches, and NoLynching is typically a mafia-favorable move, as it can result in absolutely no information being gained and potentially two town lost. Are you a typical mafia? I think we should see. ##vote GeneralCamo

So we're looking for three allies?

Help, I'm signing up for a VERTi60 mafia game, why do I do this? Oh wait, it's not Dead Space, it should be fine.

Wouldn't it then also be logical that he needs to see the binoculars to be able to use them? At any rate, I'd consider using binocs as something active and I find it perfectly fine to have the unit decloak to use them. However, I'd also be perfectly fine with it being the other way. I'm just saying that I don't think it makes sense to try to find logic in an argument about cloaking devices and conditions for them turning off.

As opposed for it to suddenly stop functioning when he swings a knife?

I'm not entirely aware of what's going on in the TSR section of development (anything that isn't said in the forum, I won't see, and it seems like most contact is outside of the forum), however I'll chip in here since you guys deserve a little input from someone. I've been seeing some talk of building a new beta (presumably a test beta, although I can't know for sure) in the past couple weeks. It appears as there is a bit of a delay doing that as they wait on certain things to be done (or seeing if those things are infact necessary) I don't anticipate a release by years end, but again, I'm not privy to all the info related to the project and I'm only saying this to you guys in absence of anybody else with more to say about it.

PM Chronojam about it, particularily after the next announcement that we are looking for new testers (which can happen pretty much anytime.)

Yeah, and since we're in the RA2:AR section, that really applies, doesn't it, VinGummi?

That's when Reborn released, afterall.