Category 5 Hurricane

I'm sorry, but what? I'm supposed to be doing the NK, afterall, right? Why are you concerned I might bus around some targets? You've spent a lot of time up until now coming up with all manner of alternate theories about what I can do (even though I've frankly already told you nearly every aspect), but now you're warning Louis that I might swap her targets? Also up until now, you've claimed there can't be duplicate items, and you've labeled an item Jeod was holding to be a way to bypass a jailor as your reasoning for why Retaliation couldn't have broken through her jailing action. ALSO up until now, you've been using the fact that I didn't swap anyone on N2 to try to say that I couldn't use the role because I needed to do the NK instead. Suddenly, the swap is the only thing you are worried about, which if you are scum is absolutely something you should be worried about, as I can prove my role and reveal you by swapping her and you. So, with that in mind...if you are actually town... Shouldn't you be telling her to be block me to make sure I don't kill her?

It's almost like that is exactly what happened, and you know it.

That is contradictory. If you assume that Jeod cannot have been fooled by my role because of his items, then he also cannot have been stopped by Louis. It doesn't work both ways.

I'm just going to go with my gut here and say that Jeod was the one doing the NK, got swapped back to himself, and that's why the NK didn't happen. Since that means he targeted Irishman, that would evidently make him clear. Jeod claimed to be passing an item, and Shade claimed Jeod had three items and that he's geared to counter town roles, of which there happens to be 3. This sounds like he accidentally revealed too much. ##vote Shade939

I'll restate this for the last time, the idea that there was a alignment change is too outlandish to be considered, just for a game setup standpoint. Allowing a conversion role in a game of this size would result in a possible 37% mafia size, and a game that could end at the start of Day 2. The game already stood to be alarmingly short as it is.

Now that you mention it, the mere fact that the game is still going is pretty weird. Given no NKs so far, I wouldn't have been surprised if the remaining member conceeded. But I don't stretch the logic there to that extent, I more consider it a result of the confidence of whoever is left. Whoever remains must be confident their game position is strong enough to win from, otherwise why spend the time?

I mean, proving I have the role I say I do shouldn't change anything with regards to my own suspicion, and your reasoning for lynching the claimed cop in TheIrishman is the most flawed thing I've seen all game, especially given that better reasons for doing so exist. But I'm not against the result in particular.

Well, actually, I guess I should check on that. I've kinda just assumed.

Bus drivers can't self target, but yes, such a thing could be done.

It does sort of feel like "keep throwing shit at him until something sticks", doesn't it?

Yeah, I guess. At which point you'd be looking for someone who used to be town aligned, but isn't anymore. And you do that by looking for unnatural changes in arguments. But mostly I'm going to say that's unlikely, because the assumed 2/6 scum/town ratio is already pretty high and adding another on top of that. You could argue that Jeod was alone and recruited me, I guess. But then does it matter?

Ok, nevermind. You're going too far with the imagination thing now.

Actually reminds me of a game I played on another board with Allie29, and we were both absolutely convinced on the other and attacked each other relentlessly. In the end we both agreed that someone else was scum, still primarily sizing each other up, and was surprised when the game ended when that person was lynched.

Frankly that is for others to decide. I'm not fully set on you, as it is. Your own arguments have actually been swaying me away from TheIrishman, but towards you. Remembering D1 and D2 though leads me back to TheIrishman in what I think is still a more logical case, outside of your potential slip on the number of items Jeod had. The lack of a kill N1 has still not be solidly explained, and TheIrishman was left to be capable of attacking N2.

Exactly. And yet it seems that he did, didn't he?

As established by other roles, the timing of the use of the abilities/items matters. Louis apparently doesn't live if she doesn't use her shield N2. TheIrishman maybe missed his opportunity to use his at the correct time. If Jeod was actually jailed, he failed to use it when he could have. Scum not knowing whether or not my ability will be used is an advantage I'm not giving up.

Mr. Alternate Universe Man, I know I gave you that name, but just because that is who you are now, doesn't mean I have to play by the rules of the alternate realities that you create for yourself.

How should I know? I do not know the lore. However, Jeod might have already told us, given his story about a "defensive jailer"

I'll even point out that three happens to be the number of town power roles there are, if Louis and TheIrishman are the other two. Did you not say that each item is geared to counter a power role? I'm not sure I buy that this is a coincidence.

You were describing how his role works, afterall, with quite certainty about what it could do, and how it fits in the game. You shouldn't know how it fits.

No, it'd be easier to make that mistake if you had it in mind that he started with three items. I can't say I even realized it was more than one, until you brought it up. Maybe you have some as well.

He also said he tried to pass one of them to you as part of his dance. Is that where it is, Shade?

Why don't you explain why you initially said Jeod had three items?