ChopBam

iLikeToType is taking a while in his rebuttal and I doubt there's much he can say that hasn't been said already. ##vote iLTS @Jeod

I will note that from reading over this big "rehash" post and your other posts, you haven't really reinforced or restated anywhere the idea that you are the insane cop and got a town report on Orange. You keep going over "arguments" like a machine. I know if I was an insane cop in your shoes, with this kind of resistance from Orange, I would be going more crazy over my report which to me would confirm as 100% solid proof the fact that Orange is scum. You haven't done this however. Just mentioned the report at the beginning of the day and then forgot about it... This is your extremely rhetorical followup post after your initial and only claim on your very "positive" report on Orange. No mention of your report. I'd certainly have much more of an "aha, gotcha" attitude if I really saw such a cop report in my PM's. But nope, nothing at all. Additionally, the way you tried to deviate from the plan yesterday and suddenly start some kind of bandwagon on Orange when it wasn't so cut and dry to everyone else also still rubs me in the wrongest way possible. Let's look over part of that post again: Why lynch when you can just nightkill him and then claim for townie points later that you weren't part of the Voe bandwagon, therefore you're a good guy? You had already started momentum on the no lynch idea, why not follow through for townie points? You seem to be capitalizing on this very strongly now, which to me gives you motive to have done exactly that.

I still don't think you're getting it. In iLTScum case, Killing_You would have investigated Orange, and from that investigation would have 100% seen Orange as town (regardless over whether he was sane or naive). I'd like to think that KY would have considered only two possibilities about himself: he is sane or he is naive. In the binary consideration that he is sane, then Orange is good and you are left as the scum. In the binary consideration that he is naive, he would assume that the sane cop was Orange or Voe. If Voe, then Orange is scum. If Orange, then you are scum. So KY investigating Orange would still have a greater than 50% chance yield of you being scum. If you had killed me, KY would have had the above chance crackers to munch on, as well as the idea that the one person pursuing you was scum reading you and you would have gone after him in revenge. No, the best way would be to kill KY and galaxy brain it to try to change my mind with all these nice arguments you now have at your disposal as a result of these decisions.

I totally understand. I used to love doing logic puzzles in school, so if there are two possibilities in a chart like that and you can declare or negate one, then the other one falls into place naturally, which can lead to more conclusions down the line.

Simple. From the chart above, in the scenario of you being scum, if Voe was sane then KY was naive and all remaining reports would be useless except that from ILTS.

At the very least, what I'm getting out of this is that I came up with a model for iLTScum's motive to have killed KY last night rather than some big brain time.

Hold on, lemme look at the Orange scum chart too... Hmm, I guess the sanity could have been shoved onto Voe as well. Screw that Voe guy.

At the time, assuming iLikeToScum, he wouldn't have known which of you was sane. If I had died, my scum read on iLTS may have been more legitimize in KY's brain to reconsider his scum read on you, Orange. Even if he investigated you and got a town read, he may have considered himself naive, yes, but if KY considered himself naive, that would have made you the sane cop by necessity and iLTS would have been outed because of his multiple mafia reports (impossible to be sane or naive). Pressure's back on you, @iLikeToSnipe. Killing_You couldn't stay alive in your scum case because whether he investigated Orange as naive or sane, you would have been outed by logical process.

In addition to KY's scum read on Orange (seen in other posts of his), this post is affecting me a bit too. He basically announced that he's investigating Orange, so iLTS as mafia would have had less reason to kill KY on N2. This game of deflection has multiple angles all supporting the same conclusion: iLTS' innocence.

@OrangeP47 do you have any followup for this reasoning you had before, which is basically a town read on iLTS? How can the Voe kill make sense if iLTS is mafia (which you currently contend)?

I also am busy/away most of the day tomorrow.

I'm assuming a 24h phase. What time is hammer?

I actually have work tomorrow myself. But I'm also busy right this second and will get to it later.

The reason I was leaning toward iLTS being scum in this game was that I was in those same shoes last game when I knew I was town but iLTS was going after me with whatever bullshit he could find. It seemed to the outside like a really solid case but I knew in my mind that I was town so I kept fighting. Perhaps I have some empathy for you, but that could also be my downfall, so I'm trying to be careful.

Oh look I contradicted myself and people don't think I'm scum. Amazing. I could do this all day!

All of your reasonings, from both sides, seem pretty sound. KY's read on Orange, plus some of iLTS' reasoning, gives me pause on my iLTS scum read. So I may have to go back through the thread and hopefully not just WIFOM it but try to read between the lines as far as actions, reactions, and emotions. This game right now:

Yeah exactly, but that'd be 50/50 on whether the sanity belonged to you or to KY, and another 50/50 on whether KY targeted iLTS or you (because if KY targeted you and got town, he could have been seen as a naive cop). @iLikeToSnipe, do you have possible motivation for Orange to have gone after KY last night? The main thing I can think of is that KY was scum reading Orange yesterday and I was scum reading you, so the trajectory of D2 reads would give Orange a good chance. What say you?

That exchange doesn't stand out to me in either direction any more than it did when I first read it, and I'd say for the same reasons as when I first read it.

Hm, actually he still might not know whether the sanity was yours or KY's, but still likely not a risk to take.

That would have been an excellent reason to kill him. I'm trying to find motivation (from iLTS "town perspective") for you to have gone after KY last night. On the flipside, I am finding good motivations (from your "town perspective) for iLTS to have gone after Voe and then KY.

Somebody lemme know if I got anything wrong here. General Player N0 Report N1 Report N2 Report Sane Insane Naive Paranoid Voe iLTS/Town - - Killing_You Chop/Town Voe/Town - iLikeToSnipe Voe/Mafia Chop/Mafia Orange/Town ChopBam KY/Mafia Orange/Mafia Chop/Mafia OrangeP47 Voe/Town KY/Town iLTS/Town iLTS Bad Player N0 Report N1 Report N2 Report Sane Insane Naive Paranoid Voe iLTS/Town - - Killing_You Chop/Town Voe/Town - ChopBam KY/Mafia Orange/Mafia Chop/Mafia OrangeP47 Voe/Town KY/Town iLTS/Town iLikeToSnipe Voe/Mafia Chop/Mafia Orange/Town Claim Orange Bad Player N0 Report N1 Report N2 Report Sane Insane Naive Paranoid Voe iLTS/Town - - Killing_You Chop/Town Voe/Town - iLikeToSnipe Voe/Mafia Chop/Mafia Orange/Town ChopBam KY/Mafia Orange/Mafia Chop/Mafia OrangeP47 Voe/Town KY/Town iLTS/Town Claim

Same. Here have some more.

I'll start with some charts, gimme a bit.