Attention The State of the mods, but also our communities.

[LiamGriever]

Renegade is dead. End of. It doesnt even have what counts as a community anymore. The "communites" that do exists dont work together. The communities that do exists all only exist to flame eachother and claim to be better so they can sit on the throne of a game that fucking sucks. A game that is so outdated it doesnt even have fucking recoil. GOLDENEYE64 HAD FUCKING RECOIL FOR FUCK SAKE

 

Moreover, the community aspect is what made this game good. Because lets be perfectly honest, Renegade is anything but "Good" in an objective view. Until you lot, MPF, and whatever little else still counts as communities anymore around here can work together again, renegade will never again have that community feel. Even internally in W3D, you guys as a community are a laughing stock. You literally have a splinter community because a couple of your admins got overly PC. This is a community of people from a game in the 2000s, PC was never a thing then and in a community that is filled with those people it never will be!

 

I remember a time when the communities werent toxic. Where they all pooled together to create patches and security for the game. Where they shared ban lists, had tournaments, and the communities were all essentially a big community. Because of the lack of this, Renegade and its mods arent that anymore. Its a vanity project for the Game Dev College rejects who couldnt make a fucking java game to beat bloons tower defence. (Not a jab at your skills, some models, maps, etc are great, but is definitely a jab at your dedication to one project and time management)

 

Sorry guys, but thats more or less of whats become the truth to me around here now. Take of it what you will. I'll still be around to play games because as individuals most of you are alright to chat with and hang with. But Owners, Admins, Devs, all of you higher ups. Something needs to change, or these little projects of yours will end like AR, Reborn and Dune. Sat on a back shelf for years gathering dust and an interest in them largely lost.

[thedisclaimitory]

w3dhub dont close or destroy this post this is history

 

[bakfiets]

Good post. I'm pretty disappointed the w3dhub leadership after the recent happenings.

[FRAYDO]

20 minutes ago, LiamGriever said:

Moreover, the community aspect is what made this game good. Because lets be perfectly honest, Renegade is anything but "Good" in an objective view. Until you lot, MPF, and whatever little else still counts as communities anymore around here can work together again, renegade will never again have that community feel. Even internally in W3D, you guys as a community are a laughing stock. You literally have a splinter community because a couple of your admins got overly PC. This is a community of people from a game in the 2000s, PC was never a thing then and in a community that is filled with those people it never will be!

I'm actually going to agree with the community aspect. We really should seek collaboration with the other communities and encourage some sense of solidarity again. The C&C Renegade community as a whole needs this.

[FRAYDO]

I feel I should add as well, everyone is free to express their opinion without repercussions.

[Jeod]

First, none of those projects have ended. Second--and I don't know your history--I don't see any similar threads up on other community forums. Given the lack of outreach in relation to your OP, what's the point of it?

[Testament]

15 minutes ago, Jeod said:

First, none of those projects have ended. Second--and I don't know your history--I don't see any similar threads up on other community forums. Given the lack of outreach in relation to your OP, what's the point of it?

I don't remember ever seeing you ingame. Ever. For anything.

Now, this community has been in danger of being flushed for years for various reasons. It may have its populated times and lulls but they are much too extreme and wind up turning off anyone who may be interested away. Nobody wants to join up into games that aren't always gonna have a decent amount of players.

Funny enough, I've been posting about this on the various chans for years and I had someone tell me "No, we don't want THOSE types of players.."
Lets get real, you don't get top be choosey for RENEGADE. A nearly 20 year old game that wasn't exactly popular to begin with. We should be doing EVERYTHING to retain individuals as once regulars are gone you lose 1 person who will be in that game nearly everyday giving others someone to play against.

As an aside, this current "professionalism" bullshit I keep hearing from the bigwigs makes me utterly cringe. I've had to consult with them (people wholly unrelated to what I was doing) in order to post a fan video they didn't like, when I already spoke with the LEADER of that mod project and the PR lead giving a go ahead. That type of micromanagement and obsession with control means this place was never gonna grow on its own or have much chance of holding anyone's interest who wasn't incredibly autistic about Renegade. Throw away regulars for the potential to please some undefined base and people who don't even regularly play because some people don't have a skin thicker than a grapes. I know our base, and we're not doing what we can to reach them.

 

[Jeod]

If the complaint comes down to the Discord channel removal, then there's no purpose. If you want an ear, separate that drama from the "Renegade community" aspect. I'll gladly participate when that happens.

 

[bakfiets]

The Discord channel was a huge part of the community though, and removing it was not really helpful for keeping regulars in the community.

[Jeod]

Hrm. Looked more like a circlejerk to me, with maybe 8-10 regulars committed to that channel who were rarely seen in any W3D games. Funnily enough, the 'likes' on particular posts in this thread promote that perspective.

As I said, separate the grille drama from the Renegade community discussion and I'll participate in it.

[Testament]

Just now, Jeod said:

If the complaint comes down to the Discord channel removal, then there's no purpose. If you want an ear, separate that drama from the "Renegade community" aspect. I'll gladly participate when that happens.

 

>verbose pomposity that's totally out of touch with the actual weight of killing off the one killer app that made us different from every other boring C&C discord nobody cares about because a few people clicked the NSFW tab and got their jimmies rustled.

Even then, that's not the route cause of grievers comment as I suspect, the grille removal was merely a symptom.

30+ people who organized on our discord FRAYDO created to play games, chat and have fun  = no purpose. 
I'm sorry Mr. Game Server Moderator, but I don't see anything in your title that relates to PR. I was brought here to do just that, and Its getting frustrated when you are told that engaging the community on a daily basis is worthless when no one else other than the two PR guys cares to do it. Bold strategy cotton, lets see how that played out for nearly every dev who held their base in contempt.



 

[Testament]

Just now, Jeod said:

Hrm. Looked more like a circlejerk to me, with maybe 8-10 regulars committed to that channel who were rarely seen in any W3D games. Funnily enough, the 'likes' on particular posts in this thread promote that perspective.

As I said, separate the grille drama from the Renegade community discussion and I'll participate in it.

Yeah IDK, these 12 people who actually were regulars were all players.

Spoiler

>bakfiets never seen ingame

>Testament never seen ingame

>Dale never seen ingame

>FRAYDO never seen ingame

>Disclaimer never seen ingame

>Dadud never seen ingame

>Hiramaky never seen ingame

>DMB never seen ingame

>rackz never seen ingame

>TanJieWie never seen ingame

>URKA never seen ingame

>JeJ/Anvil never seen ingame

Yet you're changing the argument to discredit his criticism. The splintering of the community is what was being discussed, not the grille removal. That's only a symptom of an underlying problem.
 

[Jeod]

So I'm not allowed to comment in a thread now because I'm not PR? What hypocrisy.

Hey @LiamGriever, I'm guessing by your OP that your concerns stem from another W3D mod being announced recently. I have to say, I'm concerned with the amount of projects going on at the same time. I was hoping to bring it up during the staff meeting, but the date for that got moved to a weekday instead of a weekend so I can't attend.

That's not to say that Ground Zero or IA should have been cast aside, but it's killing the mojo with too many splintering off to focus on different projects rather than pool resources to push one out the door in a playable state.

[FRAYDO]

8 minutes ago, Jeod said:

As I said, separate the grille drama from the Renegade community discussion and I'll participate in it.

The Renegade community discussion is what we should be focusing on. The meeting date may be changed still, so we'll see if we can bring that up.

[LiamGriever]

2 minutes ago, Jeod said:

So I'm not allowed to comment in a thread now because I'm not PR? What hypocrisy.

Hey @LiamGriever, I'm guessing by your OP that your concerns stem from another W3D mod being announce recently. I have to say, I'm concerned with the amount of projects going on at the same time. I was hoping to bring it up during the staff meeting, but the date for that got moved to a weekday instead of a weekend so I can't attend.

That's not to say that Ground Zero or IA should have been cast aside, but it's killing the mojo with too many splintering off to focus on different projects rather than pool resources to push one out the door in a playable state.

My OP is primarilly addressing two things, community, and the stagnation of mods. There are in my opinion, too many mods. Too much hype for mods that will never see completion or even public beta, like AR and Dune. I feel like W3D is sitting idly, letting people do whatever whenever, with no real direction. I get that its a mod team, but at the same time i want to see some solidarity in the production of these projects. I feel like if every dev jumpped onto one thing and got given a timescale, project requirements, etc, AR could get pushed out in 6 months. Instead, you have so many talented devs doing different things which causes mods to take so long they stagnate and get cancelled.

[Testament]

Just now, Jeod said:

So I'm not allowed to comment in a thread now because I'm not PR? What hypocrisy.
@LiamGriever

 

Yeah I have no idea where you got that from my comment, that's quite the assumption. I merely said you're missing the mark and its outside your realm of expertise.

[Jeod]

2 minutes ago, LiamGriever said:

My OP is primarilly addressing two things, community, and the stagnation of mods. There are in my opinion, too many mods. Too much hype for mods that will never see completion or even public beta, like AR and Dune. I feel like W3D is sitting idly, letting people do whatever whenever, with no real direction. I get that its a mod team, but at the same time i want to see some solidarity in the production of these projects. I feel like if every dev jumpped onto one thing and got given a timescale, project requirements, etc, AR could get pushed out in 6 months. Instead, you have so many talented devs doing different things which causes mods to take so long they stagnate and get cancelled.

Agreed. The rumor mill regarding "professionalism", as Testament pointed out, has to do with some of the dev team using these projects as their portfolio. Rumors, of course, but with a bit of truth to them I think. I don't claim to know the story behind the mill, but if I wanted to use these mod projects in my portfolio and be noticed by a larger dev company like EA, project management would take precedence over community management. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why things appear to be the opposite. A well-managed project brings in a large community, but only when the project is well-managed. Thus, community management comes after. Seems more logical.

[FRAYDO]

1 minute ago, LiamGriever said:

My OP is primarilly addressing two things, community, and the stagnation of mods. There are in my opinion, too many mods. Too much hype for mods that will never see completion or even public beta, like AR and Dune. I feel like W3D is sitting idly, letting people do whatever whenever, with no real direction. I get that its a mod team, but at the same time i want to see some solidarity in the production of these projects. I feel like if every dev jumpped onto one thing and got given a timescale, project requirements, etc, AR could get pushed out in 6 months. Instead, you have so many talented devs doing different things which causes mods to take so long they stagnate and get cancelled.

+1

However, it's not my place to say or drive game direction. I'm here to help to the best of my ability in the field of public relations, and I leave the development to the team. At best, I can put in my input from testing, but ultimately they have final say on what's going on.

[wolf]

When was the renegade community NOT toxic? lol.

In all fairness, people have moved on. Those who played (and loved) renegade have grown up, got jobs etc. Its very hard to compete against the thousands of excellent free games that are out there nowadays. Fortnite, TF2, LoL. Same with game engines.  You have really need to have something special to grab peoples attention, something which is nearly impossible with the dated w3d engine.

Finding motivation to work on projects you know people will hardly play is... well... hard.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by wolf

[FRAYDO]

1 minute ago, Jeod said:

Agreed. The rumor mill regarding "professionalism", as Testament pointed out, has to do with some of the dev team using these projects as their portfolio. Rumors, of course, but with a bit of truth to them I think. I don't claim to know the story behind the mill, but if I wanted to use these mod projects in my portfolio and be noticed by a larger dev company like EA, project management would take precedence over community management. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me why things appear to be the opposite. A well-managed project brings in a large community, but only when the project is well-managed. Thus, community management comes after. Seems more logical.

Backing this 100%. I'm also going to add that project community and community management should be best left to the respective staff. Devs handle the project and push out updates and patches, and the PR team should worry about the community and how to attract new members and retain them.

[Testament]

8 minutes ago, Jeod said:

The rumor mill regarding "professionalism"

It's not a rumour. I've seen it used as an argument time and time again. Portfolio be damned, I fail to see how having a certain "company culture" suddenly makes your achievements invalid.

I agree with you on project management over community management. Leave the community management to FRAYDO and the the policing to the moderation team.

8 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

+1

However, it's not my place to say or drive game direction. I'm here to help to the best of my ability in the field of public relations, and I leave the development to the team. At best, I can put in my input from testing, but ultimately they have final say on what's going on.

100%, I will always try to give astute observations when it comes to PR or marketing.

[thedisclaimitory]

wolf is correct when has the renegade community not been toxic

 

[Jeod]

Just now, Testament said:

It's not a rumour. I've seen it used as an argument time and time again. Portfolio be damned, I fail to see how having a certain "company culture" suddenly makes your achievements invalid.

I agree with you on project management over community management. Leave the community management to FRAYDO and the the policing to the moderation team.

Well, as a GSM I only have so much to work with. I imagine with your rank, you can see a lot more internal things than I can.

[Jeod]

10 minutes ago, wolf said:

When was the renegade community NOT toxic? lol.

In all fairness, people have moved on. Those who played (and loved) renegade have grown up, got jobs etc. Its very hard to compete against the thousands of excellent free games that are out there nowadays. Fortnite, TF2, LoL. Same with game engines.  You have really need to have something special to grab peoples attention, something which is nearly impossible with the dated w3d engine.

Finding motivation to work projects you know people will hardly play is... well... hard.

99%. When I see an APB game night I check my calendar. I'm married and have a job and am planning to start a family of my own in a few years, so life's busy. Most of the time the game nights fall on times when life is a priority. Therefore, outreach needs to go beyond nostalgia. C&C Mode is unique and pretty fun with a large server. Probably a lot of younger people out there who'd play it consistently. Even C&C Rivals Fortnite has a big following.

[LiamGriever]

1 minute ago, Jeod said:

Even C&C Rivals has a big following.

This is not the topic here. This is not the topic anywhere. Raising this topic is blasphemy punishable by death.

[Jeod]

Just now, LiamGriever said:

This is not the topic here. This is not the topic anywhere. Raising this topic is blasphemy punishable by death.

Fixed, my bad.

[wolf]

I still wonder why you guys didnt move over to UDK a few years ago. I asked once and all i got was a bunch of excuses. Too hard to do walking animations for mechs, too much work bla bla.

I think moving to UDK would breath new life in to this community and its games.

[LiamGriever]

1 minute ago, wolf said:

I think moving to UDK would breath new life in to this community and its games.

You mean make Renegade X? ..........

[Jeod]

5 minutes ago, wolf said:

I still wonder why you guys didnt move over to UDK a few years ago. I asked once and all i got was a bunch of excuses. Too hard to do walking animations for mechs, too much work bla bla.

I think moving to UDK would breath new life in to this community and its games.

I asked that too with the advent of RenX. I got a similar answer, that it would mean starting everything from scratch and learning how to develop on a more unfamiliar engine. There's also a certain bit of pride in stretching the capabilities of W3D so far, as seen in APB Delta and AR. Thing is, Renegade X has a nice SDK out now, and a lot more people are skilled in (or have the motivation to be) UDK.

It could be a rights issue, RenX is one thing but if UDK gets a huge C&C modding community? That could be something EA doesn't want. Who knows.

[wolf]

Just now, LiamGriever said:

You mean make Renegade X? ..........

Well, an APB / Reborn or AR version of Renegade X would be amazing.