IA video clip: Shotgunning practice

[Veyrdite]

This is an experiment of uploading a short video clip to the forum.  I'd like to see if it works out well, or causes issues for hosting.  Staff: please comment. 

Please excuse the blurriness.  I record in quarter resolution (1080p/2 = 540p) and for this upload I'm stuck using x264+aac to maintain web browser viewing compatibility.  I'd prefer to upload an x265+opus as it gets me about half the size for the same quality, but that's a compatibility nightmare.

 

I wanted to improve my shotgun play, so I recorded a match and played it back frame by frame.   I discovered I'm missing a lot more shots than I realise and I'm engaging from too far away.

Nonetheless: I'm still left feeling there's something I don't understand.  Grenadiers felt almost invulnerable to shotgun fire.  Take a look:

I'd like to try some static tests, but unfortunately there are no convenient default .mixes with standing bots I can play on LAN.   Dblaney and Yap have a test map (dblaney_content1? blu-dblaney?) but it's in ttfs, which as far as I can tell means I can't play it on lan without configuring an FDS

Question: If I want to make a quick IA map then where do I find objects.* and is there anything else special I need to do?

[Threve]

8 hours ago, Veyrdite said:

This is an experiment of uploading a short video clip to the forum.  I'd like to see if it works out well, or causes issues for hosting.  Staff: please comment. 

Honestly there are so many factors going into this it isn’t worth worrying or stressing over.

1. More than likely is internet connection where it registered a direct hit on your computer but it wasn’t for the server.

2. The armor on GDI Grenadier could be biased against those Shotgun projectiles for whatever reason as this game has over 1000 things going on with it at all times in terms of armor classes, weapon damage and such.

3. The Shotgun is ultimately an irrelevant weapon as with every other gun but the Lancer, Volt Auto, Railgun/PIC, Grenades, Mantis Tiberium Auto Rifle and Rep Gun. 

4. The only thing that matters for 90% of Maps/Games is vehicles purchases anyways unless it’s a Power-suit Rush or Spy. 

As for the Objects.ddb they can be extracted with RenegadeEx in the data folder I believe of IA (though I think these are for all things from finally renegade and not IA). If they’re not there then go to the TTFS Folder and they will be in there. I saw them earlier while editing the strings.tdb. If you still can’t find them just let me know and i’ll Post it.

[Pushwall]

9 hours ago, Veyrdite said:

1. Shotgun damage drops off with range dramatically. - ie: I was always too far away

This isn't even a thing in scripts 4.x, distance has no effect on damage.

9 hours ago, Veyrdite said:

2. Netcode/prediction issues - client disagrees with server about where bullets go

This is only a possibility if the shotgun's damage is all or mostly splash-based. Even so, it wouldn't be this consistently bad if this was the case (and you'd see some instances of yourself clearly missing the enemy with all your pellets but still doing some damage to them).

9 hours ago, Veyrdite said:

3. Grenadiers are immune to shotguns - wrong armour.ini settings?

I'd say this is the most likely factor since it appears the shotgun never did noteworthy damage to them in that entire clip even with a clean hit.

Another possibility is that the grenadier has some wrongly labelled hitboxes (such as a torso that takes damage like it's a foot instead of, y'know, a torso) but that would cause every non-splash weapon to suffer against them, so this probably isn't it.

[dblaney1]

Use the left click against grenadiers. The right click uses a flamebased heat weapon that doesn't damage the grenadiers flame shield well. The primary fire which uses a normal shotgun shell does. 

[Veyrdite]

1 hour ago, dblaney1 said:

Use the left click against grenadiers. The right click uses a flamebased heat weapon that doesn't damage the grenadiers flame shield well. The primary fire which uses a normal shotgun shell does. 

O.o

/topicover

 

7 hours ago, Pushwall said:

This isn't even a thing in scripts 4.x, distance has no effect on damage.

So the 'range' and 'effective range' settings in LE no longer have their traditional meanings? 

(it's been many years, I may have the names wrong.  IIRC Bullets had a range they were 100% damage up to, and then another range they would still exist to but with reducing damage)

 

8 hours ago, Threve said:

[...] isn’t worth worrying or stressing over.

[...]

3. The Shotgun is ultimately an irrelevant weapon as with every other gun but the Lancer, Volt Auto, Railgun/PIC, Grenades, Mantis Tiberium Auto Rifle and Rep Gun.

I enjoy finding new and different tactics to play.  If I stuck to those weapons all of the time I wouldn't want to play IA at all.

[notDMB]

Grenadiers OP

Pls nerf

[Pushwall]

And people wonder why I'm reluctant to go the route of secondary fires that are effective against different targets than the primary fire while looking exactly or almost identical to the primary...

[Veyrdite]

The secondary fire for the shotgun looks very different, but the difference between primary and secondary is not documented in the weapon name (like with vehicles).

I've stuck to the secondary because it's hitscan, whilst the primary takes a few frames to reach the enemy.  It's generally easier to see when you have hit using the secondary.

[Pushwall]

54 minutes ago, Veyrdite said:

The secondary fire for the shotgun looks very different, but the difference between primary and secondary is not documented in the weapon name (like with vehicles).

A change like that doesn't really give you much indication of how its effectivenesses have changed though, right?

[Veyrdite]

Making the weapon name change? Maybe.  Until DB explained it to me manually I had no clue what the difference between HE* and AP warheads were.  I presume many players don't either.  But I did at least guess that it meant primary & secondary fire.

[Pushwall]

4 minutes ago, Veyrdite said:

Making the weapon name change? Maybe.

No, being a hitscan bullet versus a non-hitscan bullet.

[Veyrdite]

We're talking about several different things, I'm not clear on what you're asking..

Do you mean: "changing between one hitscan bullet effect and another different non-hitscan bullet effect doesn't help the player understand that the damage and warhead types have also changed"?

Edited April 19, 2019 by Veyrdite

[thedisclaimitory]

triple a dont call him a n00b remember this is about a freaking shot gun problem that happened before the patch of IA I bet you he hasn't played IA after the patch but I could also  be wrong. And as for you verydite in IA you have to be atleast a good player with everything so some players think that everything is to op for the other people when this game is moraly for fun and also for the skilled, but I'm not saying your not skilled what I'm saying is or what I have been saying is that everything in apex is op except the free units but this will go away because of people who think that everything is to op witch takes away its true value therefore I'm implying that everything will get a huge nerf because of people complaining this message goes out to all of you.  Stop complaining about IA and just play the game everything is- op for a reason thats how its balanced                       

Edited April 19, 2019 by thedisclaimitory