Category 5 Hurricane

I told @ TheIrishman about the game and he said he'd be signing up. Have we pinged any other regulars besides the "Mafia Players" ping on discord?

Unit reporting. Been waiting for this to happen for a while. Keep checking back in hoping for something.

For me, there is probably four that stand out. First is my first mafia game at BHP, which was a properly epic CYOR game in which I played as the KILLER MINE LAYER, in which I broke the game by forming a protection ring with Allie29 and was armed with daykills by Retaliation to boot. Together we were an unstoppable town army, for good and bad. I killed a scum!pzeper just out of the blue the moment it was revealed I had a gun, and later killed a town!Chaos_Knight because of some bad reasoning. Also only ever killed town with my mines. The game was huge and had a ton of things happen in it. Jeod was scum Dr. Robotnik, I remember that. Also remember M1Garand8 was scum. And town won. A later BHP game I remember is the embarrassing time I lost in a 3-person LYLO with scum!Allie29 and a town player that I don't remember, I think I only saw once. The loss was embarassing because I carried out a vote test with Allie29, I caught him in the trap, and then let him get away with it. Back then most games had majority-vote hammer rather than timed hammer. So with 3 people, the first town player to vote wrong effectively ended the game. I decided to test Allie29 by voting, watching him come in to the thread, unvoted as he came in, and sure enough he voted. If you posted quick enough right after yourself, new posts were just appended to the end of the last one, so he wouldn't see the unvote. I wanted to see if he would prematurely celebrate his victory by jumping on my vote. He did vote, as the trap was intended to provoke, but he didn't celebrate. He kept up appearances as I poked at him for a response after. So despite falling in to my trap, he actually convinced me he was town anyway. And then I lost the game for town. Third is a game that was played on another board that Westy was hosting. I mentioned this one during the last game. During the course of this game, I literally saved the day for town. The role I was given was a one-time use ability to set the time limit for the next day phase to 24 hours. Seemed like a bad role to have as town, figured I'd never use it. Later a town player got lynched, whose role would cause the next day phase to be skipped, so there would be two night phases in a row. I petitioned that since my role said to set the next day phase to 24 hours, instead of just reducing the time to 24, that I should be allowed to extend the day phase from 0 to 24 hours. Westy told me he didn't design the role to work that way, but he liked the ingenuity of it and allowed it. So literally saved the day. Also during this game, Allie29 (boy he sure shows up alot in these, I miss playing with him) and I were certain that the other was scum and were attacking each other hard. Somehow we both came to an agreement that someone else was scum, so we both voted that person while still sizing each other up. The person we voted for was lynched, and was the last mafia, but Westy decided troll us and made a pretend night post as if the game was still going. I don't remember how long he kept up the charade, but it was long enough for us all to collectively flip shit, I remember that. Last is the Death Note Mafia game, and the battle with OrangeP47 during his first game. I still remember the intense amount of work I had to do to catch him as a Kira (scum in that game) and also convince the rest that he was scum, made harder because I was also technically a Kira and everyone already knew it. I wasn't part of town, but I was working in their interest the whole time. The whole "reveal of the plan" from Orange and KY was pretty epic as well. While in the end I think I think the game wasn't designed very well and only the various Kiras were capable of winning, I still view that game as a pretty epic showdown.

I suppose it couldn't hurt to open a thread with long term planning for a big game.

Sure, another easy way to solve this is to give the scum team a reference copy of the vanilla town role. But yeah, it's important to have the wording of PMs vary enough so that quoting it doesn't reveal anything.

Regarding Shade's penalty, I don't really see what he did wrong. The only reason I didn't engage with his flavor requests was because I didn't know the lore, figured I couldn't just use my own role flavor, and it wouldn't be worth the time to research one because frankly whatever I put out wouldn't reduce the suspicion at all, just as it didn't with Jeod. It wouldn't prove anything. So I just stonewalled. If this were a C&C game or something we're all familiar with, asking for role flavor is pretty natural.

Frankly I think the best time to put faith in that test is when you haven't played for a while. It worked. It worked on a game with iLTS relatively recently. It only works when people are caught off guard, though.

Also great job, Shade, FRAYDO, Chopbam. As usual Shade gets it right using the wrong logic along the way. Still impressive, though. And lucky as fuck, Louis. :P

But I think I at least made a game of it. Could have given up after night 2.

Yeah, we got screwed, or more screwed ourselves. Louis didn't actually stop a kill at all N1, we just didn't do one. It just so happened that she jailed Jeod. Also I have no idea what you are talking about, Jeod. When I had told you to keep up the ignorance of the block, you had not yet explicitly admitted to it. You were still in the slow walk "maybe I was, I dunno. I attempted to pass, but I don't know if I did" stage. You admitted to it later.

Eh, I've considered it. But only so I could host a game, not just play in it. Using it for other things right now, though.

I'm at work at this point and can't post quickly, but there isn't much left to say. It's going to be up to the rest of you to work it out yourselves.

What was this 36-hour temper tantrum and then pitiful self-vote all about?

The rest of it, fine. Can't blame you for any of the rest of that. It's why I don't care if you vote me now or not. Because the absolute worst case scenario is, we've all got it wrong and it's neither me nor Shade, and if that happens and I'm in LYLO, I'm getting voted out and we lose.

Actually not lastly, I have problems with this, too. You can go ahead and debate vote timing all you like, and this argument can be used well. But the thing left out is that voting happens when a player is available. There was a several hour window when I was not online because I was sleeping, and then going to work. To focus on the "40 minutes before hammer" bullshit because of coincidental circumstances is not a good argument, especially when a known town player in TheIrishman voted at the same time, for the same reasons.

The explanation for this was literally just above your post. I understand it wasn't in direct response to you, but you'll notice is does answer your question. And Louis jailing FRAYDO has nothing to do with this. And to accept that I did have something to do with this means that you think I can swap players and NK at the same time. And this whole thing about me needing to role claim is bunk. I have nothing left to claim. There aren't extra bits I'm hiding about my role. Frankly the deception here is that I was keeping quiet to make it appear there might be something else, but outside the number of times I can swap players, there just isn't. Shade figured out what I was hiding anyway, with the every-other-phase limitation. And lastly, why should I have any remorse over TheIrishman? I didn't vote for him, and in doing so I left myself in a tie with him. It isn't my fault he is dead.

But I suppose from Shade's point of view, it was a no risk situation. By now we know that Jeod failed to kill because he was swapped back to himself on N1. In the scenario that Shade looks like he might get swapped, if he targets himself it works out either way. If the swap happens, he kills Louis. If it doesn't, there is no kill, and he can blame that on me hopefully being blocked like he wanted.

There was also a little bit of hedging on my part, hoping that because I said that out loud, Shade would think I actually wouldn't do that.

I got a little carried away when I realized I could corner Shade with that, assuming Louis followed my case and that Shade would be killing Louis. Louis would jail herself, no kill would happen, and Louis would be able to verify it all. I thought it was a good way to tightly wrap up my case on him, having established that the only thing he's worried about are my swap targets, not that I was going to make a kill, and looked to me that he was trying to make sure Louis didn't look his way. I didn't consider at all that it would be possible to target himself, but realized after that while a bus driver isn't allowed to target themselves (because that would make them almost impossible to target) there is no established rule that a mafia player can't target themselves. But choosing to lynch me now is fine, probably optimal just to get me out of the way just to verify myself. Just need to get Shade after, and we're done.

Would a vanilla scum not have the same role name?

I can make quote trees of the interactions between two players, too! Though I admit most of the suspicion was coming from me to Jeod and not back to me, but perhaps Jeod didn't think he could go toe to toe with me. For my part, Jeod slipping that he knew me to be a bus driver before I gave enough information to confirm that was key to me eventually voting him. I understand that at the time I was more suspicious of TheIrishman than Jeod, but I knew TheIrishman was jailed on a night a NK didn't happen. Kind of natural to think that's worth suspicion, and was independent of Jeod either way. I'm also going to point out that this game should already be locked up. Shade and myself seem to be the only plausible scum members now, so you just need to lynch one and then if that is wrong, lynch the other. Perhaps Shade already figured this out, given that he seems to have stopped playing.

I swapped Louis and Shade, meaning actions targeting Louis landed on Shade, and actions targeting Shade landed on Louis. This would not impact Louis using her own role at all. It does mean that the NK was actually targeting Shade, but since I said I could prove my role by swapping Louis and Shade, Shade could have caught this and targeted himself.

I can only guess, but remember Shade was trying to warn Louis that she had to "catch" me by finding out who I was going to swap myself with, and block me. Which is a logical contradiction for the reasons I already mentioned. The fact that I can swap people around is only a theoretical threat if I can both swap and kill at the same time. The item suspected to counter Louis's role was in Jeod possession. Also assumes I can target myself, which isn't allowed. Her night post suggests to me she took Shade's ideas to heart and decided to try to figure out who my swap target would be.

That isn't what I did. I swapped Louis and Shade. Louis must have picked FRAYDO on her own accord.

Fuck me. Instant regret for accidentally giving away what I was going to do. I realized my mistake right after posting, and I just hoped like hell Shade couldn't target himself the same as I can't. ##vote Shade939