Category 5 Hurricane

While that was actually a very persuasive argument, and I have to admit the same thought had already occurred to me as an option, I'm afraid it isn't so simple. I'm not the only person who can stop you. Nodlied can stop you in two different ways, and I think Jeod can too if you pick the wrong way to remove him. And I can't even try to help you, because I'm not allowed to target the same player twice, and I've already wound up randomed to both of them. The only other person I could target tonight is Alstar. Lastly, that passive you picked up from kamuixmod expired after D1. Even if you did inherit it, I don't think you'll keep it.

Keeping my vote on Killing_You incase he can't target himself.

I know that. But each one of you have reasons why you have to be town. Killing_You just has the least reasons. OrangeP47, afterall, pulled a move that protected FRAYDO from Killing_You, which would be a total town move if Killing_You is also town, for example. Alstar having his day action makes it more likely he's town. Killing_You being known to target Alstar when ChopBam died should be a town indicator. There is an argument for all of you, except Nodlied. I've seen the history where he's lynched, so it's not like my result can be insane. If we have nothing else to think about for the rest of the phase, I suggest rereading the whole thread again and remaking cases, as I did last night. Probably need to nolynch after that. I have to go to work.

The only way a scum is sneaking in a victory here is if Jeod is actually Mafia, which I have failed to mark impossible. I had a plan to prevent even that, but Killing_You just made that harder,

If that action is successful, we need to nolynch.

I forgot a part of my case. The very last player to say anything negative towards or from OrangeP47 was Killing_You, and then all negative comments came in a short period of time just before he was lynched, including the day block from OrangeP47 that still makes no tactical sense for Mafia to do unless it's a distancing move.

OrangeP47 incorrectly identified Alstar as tracker. If Alstar is his teammate, I don't think this mistake occurs. And then ChopBam dies, while the Watcher is turned back towards himself. Both Alstar and Killing_You actually hit their intended targets N1, though only Alstar is actually confirmed to have performed that action. OrangeP47 talked about having some actions that were unalterable, and I imagine his scummate is the same. If Killing_You is scum, his declared actions make sense. His N1 action was improbably not redirected, but then every action after that was "redirected" to the target that would make most sense for Mafia to hit. Here's what I currently think Killing_You's actions were: N1 Reflect unknown, NK FRAYDO N2 Reflect Alstar to himself, NK ChopBam N3 Reflect Nodlied to himself, NK kamuixmod It makes total sense that Alstar was reflected to himself N2 when ChopBam was being killed. Why wasn't he reflected again N3? Because I made Nodlied a bigger target since I declared that he could stop the nightkill. Alstar was left alone to watch Killing_You, but Nodlied was actually the intended target. Killing_You claimed he was redirected to the only player who doesn't have a night action, making it impossible for him to be counterclaimed. If Killing_You is Mafia, he has to be able to do this while also making the NKs. Given that the NK is considered separate from the character's role, I'm sure this is possible. This statement doesn't fit Killing_You's eventual role claim. Killing_You made this case on FRAYDO about not believing his claims while he still had his vote on OrangeP47, and didn't move from it, even though disbelieving FRAYDO should have meant believing OrangeP47. Attempted to kill and vote for Alstar when it appeared the game was in LYLO, instead of killing or voting for the confirmed scum. ##vote Killing_You Nodlied, even if we're wrong about Killing_You, Alstar will be unable to dodge our combined set of skills now that the randomizing effect is gone. We already know that his role can be dealt with. If Killing_You is lying about his role, he could shoot at the end of day today, kill someone else during the night, and open up right away at the start of the next day. That would be Mafia victory. If we lynch Alstar and we're wrong, we CAN lose. If Killing_You can banish, he can also switch the vote. We need this vote to be unanimous.

Depending on the situation later, we may need to use that ability in a way that we can control and not leave it to you. That's where I'm going with that.

You know, OrangeP47 had a dayblock. And because it was a roleblock, it wasn't effected by randomizer, was it?

Does your ability stop people from talking, or is it just a dayblock?

No, I have a different idea for Killing_You's claim, but only if Jeod, Nodlied and I can't come to an agreement on the same lynch target.

I specifically want to know if you're going to vote to end the day early. I want more time, but if I don't have it, I have a different strategy I can use.

Nodlied, what are you thinking right now?

And you can't use banish now because that would protect Alstar from being lynched?

If Alstar is mafia, he's boned. He can't win. There is a path for Killing_You to win this game as Mafia, as he has a daykill action that we don't know if it's one use.

We always got told that we targeted someone other than our intended target.

According to kamuixmod's flip, only roleblockers were not effected by the randomizer, Nodlied. That would explain why you always hit your target.

Blah, I mean I'm not open to SHORTER phase. There's so much switching going on in this game, I can't get my own statements straight.

I am not open to a longer phase, but I'm clearly outnumbered. We should use all the time we have, at least until we've all voted.

We're mixing up terms here. Having targets changed by kamuixmod's known passive is different than bussing, because we're being told of the changed targets. Bussing swaps players, not targets. I can't recall a game I've played with a bus driver where players affected by the bus driver knew about the effects. A search of the mafiawiki I pointed TheIrishman to says there isn't a consensus on the idea. However, same wiki does not include a variation of a cop role that would have an insane cop return Third Party on a Neutral, and therefore I think a bus driver exists. I think it was triggered by someone visiting kamuixmod and his hidden passive. If we think a bus driver is responsible for Alstar showing up as Mafia on N2, then we have to figure out who the other person was who was bussed. Same way I figured out kamuixmod was Third Party. Such a thing seems far fetched, though. This would mean that FRAYDO randomly picked the same target as someone who was bussed two times in a row, and it couldn't even be planned that way due to the randomizer. ... Good lord, that really does make me think that "insane" makes more sense even though I've seen no precedent for that. Killing_You, please explain why you attempted to target Nodlied when I gave him vague instructions to stop the nightkill?

Killing_You, since you claim to have done an action on Jeod, can you tell me what the hypothetical results would be if Jeod was the person attempting a nightkill while you did that action?

If we're wrong, who is it? Stop throwing a hissy fit at me and build a case. You seemed to be waiting for something earlier. I suspected it was waiting for Killing_You. He replied and contradicted your claim. Why are you not talking about this?

Are you perhaps stuck on this idea because you used a nightkill on me, and it still hit me? Perhaps that nightkill has a modifier that makes it so that it will not fail to hit the original target. Why don't you check that out for me?

Listen. kamuixmod and I were bussed on Night 1. This means reported actions actually occurred on the opposite player. Anything that supposedly hit kamuixmod actually hit me. Anything that supposedly hit me actually hit kamuixmod.

Otherwise we're left with the "insane FRAYDO cop" idea, which is itself insane. I've never heard of an insane cop that gives Third Party results on Neutral Players, and then we have to explain why nobody was tracked by ChopBam on N2, and why I didn't recieve a report for being watched N1.