Killing_You

I... did. I stand by everything else, though.

Thank you very much, Mr. Wonka. Well, I believe I know who it could be. And now, without further ado... THE CASE OF THE PEOPLE v. CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE & ORANGEP47 PART I: PROCESS OF ELIMINATION So, let's start with where we stand as far as the players go. I estimate that we have 3 town, 2 neutral, and 2 scum. With FRAYDO and I as the neutrals, that leaves Nodlied, Sunflower, ChopBam, Orange, and Cat5. -Sunflower could be ruled out immediately for doctoring FRAYDO and herself. -ChopBam's cop claim isn't one that I find myself doubting on any level. If he was a false cop, he could've easily claimed that Nodlied was scum for a swift and easy mislynch. Then, just nightkill one of the two remaining townies, and bam! Scum win. Furthermore, he has been rather cleverly softclaiming this whole game without it looking like him trying to set up a false claim in advance. I think we can clear him easily. -Nodlied, among other things (like being very helpful), was copped Town. That narrows us down to Cat5 and Orange. Convenient, eh? Well, let me see if we can back this idea up. PART II: THE EVIDENCE Let's start by reminding everyone that Orange has been a scum mason in the past. In that instance, he masoned with me to gain my trust, and used that to carry himself to the end. This was directly after iLikeToSnipe cast a fake action on Orange, one that implied that Orange would receive consequences if he lied. So, he starts off by dancing around the classic "r u scum" question and playing it off as a joke. And then he gives a direct answer. Notice that it has to do with his role, not his alignment. Let's take a second to look at Cat5. Remember how I said Chop was softing without looking like he was deliberately setting up a false claim? This is the inverse. Here, this looks like a false claim being set up. There's also a bit of shade tossed specifically at Orange, though it's kind of weak on content. So, here I reveal FRAYDO's alignment to keep town from going after him. I also felt that since Orange wasn't responding privately about the origin of the information in question, this would nudge him to being more responsive. Orange follows up by revealing more about FRAYDO's role, this time seemingly designed to paint him in a more negative light. Note the difference in tone and intent. There's also the fact that he basically called me a liar (and you all know what good mafia players do with liars...) Cat5 reveals his claim, along with a quick vote on Orange. No reason given, though. But he follows up by suggesting a FRAYDO/Sunflower scum team possibility. It felt like he was trying to get us to put more faith in that while still seeing that he voted for Orange. This is my one sticking point with this scenario, but it's becoming less and less of a major flaw to me. It could just be a false contradiction for one reason or another. However, any explanations are welcome. And now we get to the iLTS train, which I said I will expand upon. Now, I gave my reasoning in this post. I was wanting a Louis lynch, but I also said that I'd support an iLTS lynch. Jeod's reasoning wasn't consolidated in a single post, since he and iLTS had been going at it for a while. However, he also claims that Nodlied discussed the situation with him in their doc, and I see no reason to consider either of them in the wrong. FRAYDO's reasoning. Rather solid, if ultimately wrong. I thought I grabbed my actual vote quote, but apparently not. Anyway, right after this I followed up on my earlier post and supported the lynch. So that was the infamous train. As I said, mostly accidental, especially given how close the posts were to each other in time. Wait, we forgot the caboose. This time, it seems a bit half hearted. Afterwards, rip iLTS. Mojo turned up dead N2, and we move on to D3. This discrepancy continues to bother me. My brain has gone through several possibilities, but at this point, I think there's one very simple solution. We'll get to that later. Keep this in mind. Orange believed (with good reason) that Louis had no night actions. And here's Cat5's heftiest post in the game so far. Notice how it's heavily weighted against Jeod, and yet he votes Louis. How did that go unnoticed? Looking back, it looks like he's setting up something for after Louis (who was Suspect Alpha at the time) got lynched. Questions about his role came up, and he had this to say. Rather wishy-washy, more of an excuse to get people to stop asking questions than an actual explanation. Here, Orange tosses some shade Cat5's way, but again, not a whole lot of meat. Instead, it's leaning a bit more in the Louis direction, but still looks like he's distancing himself from Cat5. And later, Orange votes for Cat5, but I want you to note the context. Notice how there's a bunch of Louis votes, and he's the only Cat5 vote? Yet, he didn't provide an adequate argument other than "I want close trains," which is not enough in my book. Soon after, Louis lashes out and kills Jeod. Orange, understandably, is quick to vote Louis. However, by this point, there were also some Cat5 votes. It could easily be seen as him wanting to find a way to unsuspiciously unvote Cat5, and the opportunity was handed to him on a silver platter. And more wishy-washy stuff. Amazingly convenient, isn't it? Especially since I expressly stated that my goal was to forklift Cat5 right after the Louis lynch. I bet Cat5 didn't target anyone because he was warned in the scumdoc. So, Orange's tracking claims are: Track Louis to nowhere (RESULT: Discrepancy due to her visiting Jeod even though she claimed no actions), and track me to Cat5 (RESULT: Successful, although he was informed beforehand). He also claims that this track is RNG -1, which while odd, isn't too wild. So, what's the explanation for the N2 discrepancy and N3 convenience? Simple: He was lying. PART III: CONCLUSION In closing, I'd like you to consider the following; Cat5 and Orange are the scumteam. Cat5 tried to kill FRAYDO, either one was responsible for Mojo, and Orange tried to kill Sunflower. My vote currently rests on Cat5, but I will support an Orange lynch as well. I will not support any other lynch. Now, good day to you all. I hope you agree with my findings.

Working on a case right now, but in the meantime, @Category 5 Hurricane care to share your thoughts?

Counter point: If Cat5 wasn't actually a hider, then passing him an item would work normally. We haven't even verified that he is a hider, and he's been consistently unverified. However, let's say his alibi holds up. Looking purely at N1, at who's actions are verified or not, the only other living person who could've attempted the murder is ChopBam. I'd say more, but unfortunately I have to leave for work momentarily.

Cat5 is the only person who could be responsible for the attempt on FRAYDO's life, so until we get enough information to decide on a direction to go, I'm staying the course. ##vote Cat5

Nope. It's just "You gave your target a ride on a forklift!" and that's that.

Doctor roles are generally prime NK targets, since they can save someone from being killed.

Cat5. I was going to not mention it, but Sunflower being hit tells me that I probably didn't randomize the nightkill.

Thanks for the clarification.

Day start, and no death. Excellent! Now I can get to FRAYDO's questions, since I no longer have a post count to worry about. First off, it's a very nice factory. I'm glad you trusted me with the ticket. I don't remember Chop claiming tracker. The quote you referenced seems closer to "If I was a tracker" than "I am a tracker." Let's also not forget that Mojo also claimed Tracker, technically giving us three. So I don't have any idea what Chop is, and that worried me at the time. See above. Him also saying that he's "85% sure I'm neutral" doesn't quite sound like he tracked me. @ChopBam can we get a little bit of clarification? Just a yes or no on you being a tracker would do. Honestly, not much. I guess it helped put the pieces from N1 together, but eh. I'd have to reread the arguments, but at the time it seemed slightly accidental. Jeod pretty much had control of the conversation that day, and was making good points. I was swayed by his arguments. Can't speak for everyone else, though. As for those who didn't vote iLTS, Chop's the only one that stuck out to me at the time. It felt like he was trying to be on the train just enough to appear town-y, but not enough to be implicated when iLTS flipped.

...and I just realized that I somehow forgot that Mojo tracked Nodlied, which counts as a visit, so I guess that eliminates that point from my argument. This is why you need coffee before doing any Mafia, kids!

You really need to work on your swamp german :P Translation: Oh wow. Sorry man, you were not my target. That would be the man who likes being a sniper. Very bizarre that I ended up with you. Looks like a bus driver is busy. The fact that you now have that write restriction also indicates that I have been visited by two or more people. So yeah, Nodlied targeted iLikeToSnipe, and caught a ride on my forklift. Let's also not forget that Mojo was gimmicked rather than blocked, which supports Nodlied's claim that if two or more people visit him, the gimmick triggers rather than the roleblock. If you remove me from the equation, only Jeod visited him. As a matter of fact, I do. She was hostile third party who lashed out with a daykill, eliminating Town. Getting rid of her was good. We started the day with (est.) 4 town, 2 scum, 2 neutral, 1 TP. We're now down to 3 town, 2 scum, and 2 neutral. We need to be careful moving forward. But, ehh that chart of yours is a touch outdated (which is funny, since I was considering a case on ChopBam when I made that particular chart). Let me fetch you an updated chart. D1 N1 D2 N2 Category 5 <No Vote> Hid behind Louis Received item from Louis Unverified, FRAYDO kill suspect OrangeP47 Hid behind Louis Unverified, Mojo kill suspect ChopBam OrangeP47 Visited KY Unverified, FRAYDO kill suspect No Lynch Attempted to visit Nodlied Roleblocked Verified, clear in Mojo case FRAYDO FRAYDO Passed ticket to iLTS Forced to follow Jeod to Nodlied Verified, sudoku attempt implausible iLikeToSnipe Passed ticket to KY Verified, clear in Mojo case Jeod Spare Voe Masonry w/ Nodlied Verified, clear in FRAYDO case iLikeToSnipe Roleblocked Verified, clear in Mojo case Killing_You Spare Voe BUS DRIVER / Nodlied Verified, clear in FRAYDO case iLikeToSnipe BUS DRIVER / ChopBam Unverified, Mojo kill suspect Louis Spare Voe Passed item to Cat5 No action claim Unverified, FRAYDO kill suspect <No Vote> Item thief/Jeod Unverified, Mojo kill suspect Nodlied Voe Redirected to Mojoman, Forcing Dutch gimmick Verified, clear in FRAYDO case <No Vote> Was put into a pumpkin Roleblocked ChopBam and Jeod Verified, clear in Mojo case OrangeP47 Voe Masonry w/ KY Used rolecop item on FRAYDO Verified, clear in FRAYDO case iLikeToSnipe RNG Tracker/Louis Pass Profiler/Unknown Unverified, Mojo kill suspect Sunflower Voe Doctored FRAYDO Verified, clear in FRAYDO case No Lynch Doctored Orange Unverified, Mojo kill suspect iLikeToSnipe Voe Received ticket from FRAYDO Gave FRAYDO bonus action Verified, clear in FRAYDO case No Lynch / Dead - Mojoman Jeod Visited Nodlied Verified, clear in FRAYDO case <No Vote> Dead [RESULT] Effectively No Lynch NK failed, FRAYDO was saved iLTS died town Mojoman died town (I don't know how to add columns to copy/paste charts and I don't feel like doing it right now since I just woke up) As you can see, in the Mojo case, we have Cat5 and ChopBam left, and in the Mojo case we have Cat5, myself, and OrangeP47. Cat5 is still a common factor, and I don't think that's coincidence. Either way, I'll be more than happy to answer your questions during my visit to the factory, Mr Wonka. I've read the book rules quite thoroughly, and I promise not to be a bother.

Alright, I have to head out, so I'm gonna miss hammer. Personally, I still see Louis at the epicenter if the different scum possibilities in my head, so I'm placing my vote on her. I trust Town to make the correct decision, however. ##vote Louis

I'll tell you where I'm at right now, and I'll let you do with the info as you please. Right now, I have two possible scum teams in my head: Cat5 and Louis or you and Louis. The case on Cat5 and Louis is mainly due to them both being unconfirmed both nights and the apparent night interactions between the two (Cat5 choosing to hide behind her). You and Louis, however, is mainly due to how as soon as votes started piling up on Louis, you started making a case for Cat5. I also can't ignore the fact that Louis was Suspect Alpha for a lot of yesterday, until your spat with iLTS steered the lynch onto him. \ Either way, Louis is on both teams I can think of, and therefore will probably get my vote today.

MAFIA EDIT: Forgot to mention, I'll be placing my vote closer to hammer. I want to see where the arguments go today.

##unvote Looks like there's a lot of good arguments in favor of either Cat5 or Louis. I'd be fine with lynching either one today. That being said, I can see Jeod's push on Cat5 as subtly steering the lynch away from Louis, but it's not strong enough for me to make a definitive case.

So, yeah. Just add "not reading my PM correctly" to the list of Voe things that I've done this game.

...okay, never mind. Retal just reminded me that there is a mason action in my PM. It was just in the OP, not the result PM. And no, it's not automatic.

No, there's no masonry attached to this thing. It was just, "Hey, neat! You have a golden ticket!" and that's it. (Okay, that's not the specific wording, but same principle.)

Nope, not that I can tell.

What can I say? You make good points.

That... makes a lot of sense, actually. Good catch. And since Cat5 is equally as high on my list... ##vote Category 5

Not without good reason, though. There's a good chunk of evidence in your direction. Is there anything besides targeting you that shows Jeod and I could be scum?

Interesting. Care to explain your position?

My PM doesn't specify, but based on the info Orange got from copping FRAYDO, I'm his "heir," so to speak. I just need to stay alive and hold the ticket for him to win, in the event that he dies.