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Also, this puts Louis more on the Town side, now that I think about it. If she was scum, she would've gotten this advice already from her partners in the scumdoc.

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1 minute ago, Louis said:

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated, I still feel like I have a lot to learn.

Anytime. Really, it's a constant learning experience. The most important thing is to not get discouraged.

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I think I'm going to go ahead and get off the Louis case. On the surface that quick double vote combined with her and ChopBam backing each other today looked rather scummy. But reading back through... that's it. Even then, it almost feels as if Chop was banking on Louis's desperation to clear herself as a proxy defense for himself. 

Cat5, on the other hand, has quietly taken advantage of this in the opposite direction. He brought up a possible slip on Louis's part, but left it to us to push on it. My earlier case on him, even sans Meta, still stands in my eyes. I think iLTS did a decent job building a case himself.

##vote Category 5 Hurricane

Also, Louis, a little advice from someone who was in the same boat a few years ago: Don't worry too much about being confirmed. Nothing will ever be 100% anyway. This is a game of trust and deception, not facts, and being concerned with your town standing is generally considered scummy. I'd recommend focusing less on how Town sees you and more about how you see other people.

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5 minutes ago, Louis said:

I've made my case as to why I'd vote for mojo, but I don't know why chop is vote with me, but I've made my case, what's your case as to voting for me?

The short version is in the post you're quoting, and has been brought up. I've got some time, though; I'll go ahead and grab the long version.

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I don't like this. Chop and Louis have been heavily in sync the whole day, and those two votes right next to each other don't help.

xxvote ChopBam

Nah, just kidding.

##vote Louis

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I'm against a nolynch. Just because we can't hit CHop today doesn't mean we can't try to get his scum partner. And on the off-chance that Chop is somehow town, then the remaining scumteam is out in the open.

1 hour ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

That right there. Defending ChopBam but ready for the scum flip when it happens.

Good eye. That might be enough to make me lean toward a possible Louis lynch. If nothing else happens between now and hammer, I'll put my vote on her.

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Here's where I'm at; Everything points to Chop being scum. Everything also points to there being two scum members. However, I'm having trouble rationalizing who that scummate is. It's definitely not FRAYDO, and my gut tells me it's not Mojo (scum team having a warp star PLUS a one-time lynchproof passive AND three members total? That's crazy imbalanced). iLikeToSnipe came into the game late, and opened by trying to build a case on Chop based on him skimming over some important info, which I don't think would happen if they were a scum team together. For me, that leaves either Louis or Category 5, and I'm having trouble deciding. There's a case for Cat5, but his responses today and the reveal of his item make me doubt this possibility. As for Louis... I don't think there's a strong enough case there. At least not yet.

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

On the surface level I feel like such a thing is pretty unlikely. I feel like that if iLTS were scum, Mojoman would be the partner.

That could be an interesting possibility worth looking into. We'll have to assume that the 1UP didn't come from Verti at all if this is the case, however.

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9 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Alright, so at least we know he isn't lying about it. For a moment I was considering that all roleblocks were not on the mafia side.

However, as you're going to lynch me I'm going to add a bit of information I've been hiding, as it may be relevant for Louis vs Mojoman.

That gif I'm using as my avatar is one I made myself using footage from my copy of the game. I specifically made it because I wanted her holding a Rapier.

I have a Rapier as my item. I can roleblock people who target me as long as I'm holding it.

So, in the case where ChopBam and Louis are the scum team, there are three roleblocks outside of the scum team, and a scum member who has never proven to use her ability has the ability to undo a roleblock.

That's a hell of a game changer.

##unvote

I don't feel like voting Louis just yet, however. I want to get a more detailed case down first.

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Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Who all had roleblocking actions? Just Nodlied and ChopBam?

Mojoman as well.

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1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

I'm a bit dubious of your read on iLTS unless you have more information you're not sharing on why you think he's a townie.

There isn't. I've been iffy on him most of the game, but right now FRAYDO trusts him and I trust FRAYDO. I've also liked how his cases have been built today.

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Just now, ChopBam said:

Ignoring the 1-Up as a lynchproof for me, I do have the warp star which is a one-time lynchproof. Why would you like the idea of me having one time lynchproof and being scum, but not Mojoman?

Items and abilities that have to be activated aren't the same as a flat-out passive, as is the case with Mojo.

Just now, ChopBam said:

Did he? I have been missing this info [as usual]. This lends itself to a scum still alive that's not Mojo.

It was stated D2.

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14 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

There has been one specific reason for why I've been able to do shorter posts this game. I've been on vacation since last Monday. Normally my big posts come around because I have nobody else to talk to.

Okay, that's fair.

5 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Regarding not explaining ChopBam's excuse, I was pointing out that I had come up with one, but I didn't say it because I wanted to wait for ChopBam to come up with it himself. He never did, which is why I explained my possible theory later. However, even now I don't think that alternate theory is possible.

This, however, isn't. You seem like you're putting the gas back on the Chop train now that the spotlight is on you.

3 minutes ago, ChopBam said:

Town decided a few days ago Mojo was worth lynching. Then when half of him was lynched, town decided to forget about him. What happened to the line of reasoning that led to the lynch?

For my part, a couple things. One, I don't like the idea of scum having a lynchproof, even if it's one time. Two, I can't rationalize the idea of a Mojo/Chop/Orange scum team, and since you're looking scummy, I'm discounting Mojo for the moment. I could see a scenario where a scum has a one-time lynchproof due to a reduced team size, but a Mojo/Orange only team makes no sense. That would assume that you're town and you blocked Orange N1, and we know Mojo blocked Shade, so there was no way either of them killed Verti in that circumstance.

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1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

@Killing_You Are you then on the Cat5/Chop train?

Given the evidence, yes. I'm gonna make a trash run, be right back.

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It appears my hunch was right. Between Shade's usual distracting shenanigans and Donkey Kong causing a shit Banana storm, I've missed something very important: Category 5 Hurricane has been behaving out of character. At least, for a town Cat5.

On 9/17/2019 at 5:01 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

When it comes to Mojoman vs Chopbam, I'd lynch Mojoman, no question. I'm also suspicious of iLikeIrishman.

 

On 9/18/2019 at 3:34 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

See, Mojoman's action on iLTS is the kind of thing that I look at like it was an attempt to distance the two from each other.

 

On 9/18/2019 at 3:57 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'm not happy with iLikeToSnipe either so I don't really care which way this vote goes.

Day 2, these are his posts where he expresses displeasure with iLikeToSnipe. Granted, a lot of us had our suspicions about iLTS at that time, but Cat 5 never says why. The closest he gets is when he mentions Mojo using his hammer on iLTS. But would he really think scum would risk daykilling their partner? Especially so soon after one scum was daykilled already?

On 9/18/2019 at 4:43 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

It's basically a formality now, but I better vote so that I don't get a penalty.

##vote Mojoman

 

On 9/19/2019 at 5:08 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

And I'm pretty suspicious of someone that can control another person's actions.

See a pattern? His posts mostly consist of one or two sentences with no real substance to them.

On 9/20/2019 at 7:19 AM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

You're right, there isn't any proof, unfortunately. I attempted to prove it through Shade on N1, but for reasons unknown to me he doesn't seem to know that I targeted him. N2 I showed up just on time to send my action in only to find out that that deadline changed, so unfortunately I did nothing.

I also can't do anything right now, not having a day action. However, I don't think I'm in any position where I need to prove anything.

Did you start with the Mask in your possession?

And here's his biggest post at that point in the game. Notice how it's all about defending himself rather than giving his input on the other players? Normally Cat5 considers clearing himself to be somewhat of a secondary objective. He'll do it, but he puts most of his focus on scumhunting.

On 9/20/2019 at 7:57 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I came up with another explanation for why he didn't mention the 1-up, but it isn't the explanation he used. So as far as I'm concerned, he's scum.

Not the response I'd expect from a town Cat5. Town Cat5 would bring up this explanation, and use this as the basis of his case.

On 9/20/2019 at 11:06 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

My thoughts on the matter is that roleblocks possibly do not stop passing of items. However, I still find ChopBam's convienient loss of memory regarding an item that belonged to a dead player, to be more suspicious than I can forgive.

At this point the Chop train was already well-underway, and a Chop lynch was also unlikely, thanks to both the Warp Star existing and Donkey Kong shenanigans. But look at his wording.

On 9/20/2019 at 11:06 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:

more suspicious than I can forgive.

Let's keep this in mind.

20 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'm giving you a chance because I do think it's possible something else is going on, even if I still seriously dislike your responses regarding the 1-UP.

 

19 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

For what it's worth, despite Louis claiming to have something to do with undoing roleblocks, we've never seen the results or her actions. It's like she's doing nothing at all. So, you can back her up?

Day 4 starts, and this is how he opens the day. It feels a little like he pulled back the brakes on Chop for seemingly no reason.

19 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Mojoman is still on my list. There is likely a third mafia, afterall. If you think he's so suspicious, why didn't you block him?

Still gotta keep the suspicions going around, eh?

12 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

To get my full thoughts on the game I would need to do a reread, which I might not get time to do until tomorrow. However, I can do a lightning round right now.

Killing_You: Still have some lingering suspicions regarding early defense of OrangeP47, but in general your role masonry role appears to be confirmed and there is little reason to think scum would have one. Has it been done? Yes. Do I think that's particularly likely this time around? No.

iLikeToSnipe: I'm actually still pretty suspicious of this guy. In my mind he's somewhat linked to ChopBam in that if ChopBam is scum, then iLTS is not, and vice versa. Right now I favor ChopBam as scum due to things I've already talked about, and thus iLTS has fallen off my radar. However, I still don't like the feeling of this mask that can control it's owner and we don't really know to what extent he can exert control. The actions that eventually got me suspicious of iLTS himself may actually have been an additional attempt to get attention off of Mojoman.

Mojoman: I think he's scum and is the player I'm most likely to vote for today. The DK event probably an event designed to give mafia a day where town was likely to lynch them and turn it around, and Mojoman had plenty of reason to suspect he was going to be voted up again.

ChopBam: This is the guy I most need to go back and reread on. The fact that he has the 1-UP is suspicious sure, but perhaps there really is a reason for the transfer that we don't know about. The excuse that ChopBam could have used, but never did, was that he was trying to hide the fact that he had the item so that he could use it to his advantage were he to be targeted by a NK (presuming the item protects from that, I guess. I don't know what it does yet). That would totally have made sense, but he never said it. I will add here as I saw someone mention maybe the 1-UP came from somewhere other that VERT, but again I asked earlier in the game if anyone started the game with an item that didn't belong to them, and nobody said anything. Turns out ChopBam did start the game with someone else's item, Nodlied's garlic. Do we really know for sure where the 1-UP was on D1? (Did Nodlied see it in VERT's inventory N1? Another thing I need to go back and check)

Louis: My stance on Louis is mostly going to depend on how this interaction of roles between Louis/ChopBam/iLTS goes. Why did iLTS use inhale when that shouldn't be the action that ChopBam has anymore? I noted that Louis didn't use the correct term to describe what happened to her. She said she was warped, not sucked up and spit out.

FRAYDO: I don't like the direction his cases have been going today, but all in all he's probably the most townie player left standing. He volunteered as sacrifice, afterall. Unless ChopBam was his buddy that was quite dangerous, and OrangeP47/FRAYDO/ChopBam doesn't seem like a partcularly likely scum pairing.

Myself: You guys should suspect me. I haven't managed to do anything verifiable and frankly I think if I were on the outside of this situation I would be going after me.

And here, on Day FOUR, we finally get what looks like a typical Cat5 post. Even then, however, there's some issues.

Look at how heavily he seems to suspect Mojo and iLTS. He's done so all game, and yet has never fully explained his reasoning on either of them. More importantly, however, look at his section on Chop. It's a whole lot of fluff that boils down to "The evidence says he's scum, but does it really?" Overall, his interactions with ChopBam felt like two players pushing on each other when it's convenient, only to back off and try to deter suspicion away from each other. This is exactly what I expect from a scum Cat5. A town Cat5 would be making this kind of post far earlier, and would be more solid with his reads and bring harder evidence. I was tempted to quote examples from a game where Cat5 was town (APB Mafia 1) and a game where Cat5 was scum (Battle of the Gods Mafia), but I don't know if that's allowed, so I won't do so. Besides, I think this case is solid enough.

##vote Category 5 Hurricane

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Pls quit memeing I am doing an investigate

Spoiler

j/k continue with memes at your pleasure

 

[[GAME OVER] CYOR: Nintendo Edition]

Since you're here Cat5, I'd like your full thoughts on this game. I'll be doing a full analysis in the morning, and I'd like to hear what you have to say.

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31 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

I've got another direction to go in. I'll be back soon.

Actually, I'll get to this in the morning. I want be thinking as straight as possible so that I don't miss anything. For now, all I will say is this: We've made plenty of assumptions and ran with them. Specifically, I've been writing Cat5 off as Town because that's what he usually is and because there have been other, more obvious cases. I want to take a second look at him and challenge my own reads. Maybe the answer is somewhere in there.

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16 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

The only two players Chop has blocked this game are you and Orange. Chop didn't reveal that he had a 1UP, and when asked about it he didn't give straight answers.  The train of thought here is that Chop has been working with his scummates to falsify claims in order to "clear" them. I'd gather the evidence right now, but as stated above, I want to put it on hold for a second. I want to see what Cat5 has to say.

I had an epiphany while writing this. The crux of the case against ChopBam is based on the idea that the 1UP he possesses was Verti's that he took when he killed him. Here's the thing; we don't know any of this for a fact. We're assuming that it was Verti's in the first place solely because he was Dr Mario. This looked strong at first, but if we consider the 1UP coming from somewhere else, it's a lot flimsier.

I've got another direction to go in. I'll be back soon.

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Just now, Louis said:

What's the case, please enlighten me?

The only two players Chop has blocked this game are you and Orange. Chop didn't reveal that he had a 1UP, and when asked about it he didn't give straight answers.  The train of thought here is that Chop has been working with his scummates to falsify claims in order to "clear" them. I'd gather the evidence right now, but as stated above, I want to put it on hold for a second. I want to see what Cat5 has to say.

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Just now, Louis said:

@Killing_You I'd like to know your thoughts right now please.

Right now? I trust FRAYDO, and I somewhat trust iLikeToSnipe. I do think there's a case to be made for you and Chop to be on a team, but I'm waiting for Cat5 to respond to my question before moving forward. I want to keep my options open.

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At the same time as all this though, something's dug into the back of my mind...

Hey @Category 5 Hurricane who were your targets the past few nights?

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2 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

I'm beginning to doubt this claim. I think I know who has the 1-Up and will survive today's lynch. And when she lives, her partner will return from his warp and we'll be left at their mercy.

One way to find out. Try doing the thing.

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1 minute ago, FRAYDO said:

ChopBam couldn't have performed the kill, he was busy blocking you. You couldn't have done the kill, you were busy being roleblocked by him. If there were suspicions of your abilities, ChopBam has "verified" what you have. If there were suspicions of ChopBam not actually blocking you, you just described the block. Essentially, you both have an alibi for last night. Am I mistaken?

I see...

And the only other person ChopBam blocked was Orange...

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20 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:

Just making sure I have my days and nights straight.

N1 I attempted to charm ChopBam, did not succeed
N2 I attempted to charm Nodlied, did not succeed

so

N2/D3 I was invited to the gym, yes? Yes.

D3/N3 Masonry with KY, got the boost, N3 my charm succeeded and so D4 today is where I am.

That would be the order of events, yes.

[[GAME OVER] CYOR: Nintendo Edition]

Just now, ChopBam said:

Are you masoned with someone else at this point?

No. I boosted FRAYDO last night, so I can't bring anyone else into my gym until tomorrow night.