ChopBam
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Posts posted by ChopBam
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9 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:
I can make quote trees of the interactions between two players, too!
On 5/7/2022 at 9:18 PM, Category 5 Hurricane said:You responded with a quote tree of your own, but it kinda misses the point. I wasn't saying quote trees by themselves make a strong case. It was the the content and context of the quote tree that was relevant. They had heavy-hitting stuff on each other right out of the gate on D2 and lasted all day. I don't think Jeod or Shade would fake this. They don't have the personality or the brazenness. And Jeod wouldn't complain about how he wasted so much time trading blows with Shade and making cases against him if it was all meant to be a ruse anyway.
16 hours ago, ChopBam said:This war between Shade and Jeod wasn't composed of a few half-hearted tit-for-tats that we occasionally see between scum when they are afraid one may get lynched so the other distances themself for town.
Your and Jeod's exchange, on the other hand, actually fits the bill way better, so thank you for saving me the work of posting that quote tree. I think it actually follows a bit what I said about how scum tend to sus each other out with varying degrees of softness when the circumstance calls for it, something which does not apply to Jeod/Shade.
I've noted that you didn't respond to this section of my post at all. You responded to the Light Infantry thing, and made some jape about quote trees, but nothing responding to what I said about how outlandish it would be for Our AUM Shade, SHADE, (SHADE???), in a brief move of blazing brilliance, to choose tails over heads and target himself for a nightkill in order to successfully kill Louis through your unwitting actions (???), and simultaneously fool Louis into jailing FRAYDO for some reason (
).
More Notes
- Cat5 took forever to admit he was a bus driver. He was happy to suggest and to leave us guessing that he could be a role blocker or watcher (town looks more favorably on RB/watchers than bussing roles), but Jeod suggested the bus thing for Cat5 early on. A slip? Not sure. This part honestly confused me a bit. Cat5 eventually admitted to being a bus driver after having it called out and being an unavoidable thing, but wouldn't elaborate at all to any of us about its limitations or how it works. Posted pink tractors, and even now when he's "okay with being voted," he's still holding this close to the chest for some reason, as if (in the case of him dying and flipping town), it helps town somehow to still have this information left unknown. I'll note that I have seen no evidence at all of these secrets being helpful to town. He certainly suggests that they weren't a help last night (or forgot about that part of his story, I don't know).
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Cat5 has said multiple times he is okay getting voted. This also confuses me a bit, but could pass as a gamble of nonchalance.
- "With very little left to lose, if I express that I don't mind being voted in order to clear the air, maybe they'll vote for the other guy."
- Cat5 did what I thought was a lot of really good sleuth work throughout the first part of this game, with a post count typical of his play style when he's town. Up to this point though I've sort of ignored the fact that he pushed hard for Irish as #1 scum suspect ahead of Jeod, when in reality Jeod was scum and Irish was town. Was okay calling Jeod scum #2, but only after a day of heavy pressure from most players against Jeod. Cat5, our quote trees are as different as night and day, Mr. "I was on board with lynching real scum, see I voted for Jeod 40 minutes before hammer after his fate was basically sealed already at 4v3".
- Cat5 didn't express surprise, remorse, or any other evidence of a changed disposition at Irish flipping town the following day, despite prioritizing him ahead of Jeod most of Day 2.
- A big 🚩🚩🚩 for me at the start of this Day was when Cat5 opened right out of the gate with guns blazing with something about how Shade outfoxed him at the last and then came in hot with this story about how Shade attempted a suicidal nightkill. Could be legit in way I guess maybe if you squint? But to me and to all the rest of the seven hells, this bell rings a much stronger toll as attempted narrative control.
Yes I am aware, in a great stroke of unluck, I suppose a town player could look as sussy as this too. To varying degrees the stars have aligned just wrong for me before. But I don't know man, at some point I gotta look at it and combine it with the rest of the case information we have, and in my book if we eliminate the assumptions and what appears as most likely to be really strange mental gymnastics regarding Shade, this snowball has rolled down the hill too far and become too large to stop.
##vote Category 5
@ Shade939 You said you were gonna come back to at least cast a vote today?
@ FRAYDO Got thoughts?
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Shade is known to say a lot of things that make little to zero sense, as town or scum. Being our resident AUM, this makes him the easiest scapegoat ever for scum. Picking out the stuff he says is almost like a free ride.
While this bit may be somewhat trivial, I figured I would include it since it sticks out to me. It's the exact same role that I have, and from the description Shade has made of it, I share his description of it as well. One could say "Shade knows the Dune flavor" but KY's game could have any set amount of roles that do any number of things, and I don't think it's a coincidence that Shade's roleclaim and description are very close to my own.
On 5/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, Shade939 said:Light Infantry.
Now, onto the things you have been saying @ Category 5 Hurricane . Let's break down these implications a bit.
You point out all the contradictory things Shade is saying, and mentioning slipping out too much information about what items are in play, and more. But in the middle of all this easy scum Shade slippage, you suggest he has a moment of extreme clarity and luck, and can fool both Louis and you (even after fishing for more information about your role, to which you responded with a pink tractor in order to keep that information from him), ending up using reverse psychology successfully to target himself for a night kill and to get our jailor killed. Calling this far-fetched is putting it lightly.
Combine with this the fact that Shade and Jeod were fighting tooth and nail in this thread to try to get each other voted, and you suggest to us with a straight face that they were on a scum team together. This could have been some serious big brain on their part, but knowing what I know about both Jeod and Shade, I don't think they would invent, organize, and then execute something like such a complicated matrix of in-fighting so early when there was absolutely no need to.
This war between Shade and Jeod wasn't composed of a few half-hearted tit-for-tats that we occasionally see between scum when they are afraid one may get lynched so the other distances themself for town. This seems to have started at the beginning of D2 when Shade started pretending he knew something, and Jeod said he was going to shoot shade, and it only became more serious from there, right up until the time Jeod was voted off.
I'll also point out the sussing and discussion between them was a great deal of interaction that could have simply taken place in the scum doc if they were together. What follows for the rest of this post is an abridged summary of the fighting between the two. I'll note again this started at the beginning of D2 when there was no reason for two scum members to fight.
On 5/9/2022 at 4:08 PM, Jeod said:Would you like me to shoot you now, or wait until you get home?
On 5/9/2022 at 4:49 PM, Shade939 said:He could be Mafia with a day kill.
On 5/9/2022 at 5:32 PM, Shade939 said:Let me guess, you roleblocked Jeod...
On 5/9/2022 at 5:44 PM, Shade939 said:I can tell you the odds, but sometimes Town really does get that lucky.
On 5/9/2022 at 5:58 PM, Shade939 said:I'm really only thinking it's you because Louis seemed to have targeted you with an ability that makes you a suspect of the failed NK. If it's not because of her ability, then it should obviously be someone else's ability instead and a different player.
On 5/9/2022 at 6:39 PM, Shade939 said:Welp, I know what to do now then.
##Vote Jeod
On 5/9/2022 at 9:07 PM, Shade939 said:On 5/9/2022 at 9:04 PM, ChopBam said:To try, and fail, to get himself out of the spotlight.
On that I completely agree.
On 5/10/2022 at 4:01 AM, Jeod said:I'm always in the spotlight. So much in fact it seems Shade got jealous of it and wanted to be on the other side of it. Unfortunately I don't have time to catch up properly because I've gotta get to work (longer commute now), but I will say that my role and action last night are both fairly simple and given the way Shade is controlling the day and making "predictions" I'm starting to wonder if he deliberately chose a no-kill.
On 5/10/2022 at 6:34 AM, Jeod said:@ Shade939 What did you do last night? Are you still going to claim vanilla even after suggesting you affect those who visit you?
On 5/10/2022 at 8:47 AM, Shade939 said:Why yes, for you it would be, because you'd be a mafia item thief.
On 5/10/2022 at 8:53 AM, Jeod said:You just keep on telling yourself I’m scum no matter what. I’m curious about this double-roleblocker thing going on, but haven’t been able to read through it at my own pace yet.
On 5/10/2022 at 10:32 AM, Shade939 said:I'm convinced it's Chopbam and Jeod.
On 5/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, Jeod said:Or a scum cat5 and scum shade with a failed night kill on me.
On 5/9/2022 at 7:14 PM, Shade939 said:@ Louis , so what made you decide to target Jeod and basically win the entire game?
On 5/10/2022 at 2:54 PM, Jeod said:Shade is still my #1 scum suspect. Everything in my perspective of events leads to him over the other vanilla claims.
On 5/10/2022 at 3:07 PM, Jeod said:That said, now that my point of view is fully on the table:
##vote Shade939
On 5/10/2022 at 5:31 PM, Shade939 said:So, is anyone else going to vote Jeod?
On 5/10/2022 at 5:54 PM, Jeod said:Because I'm the only one who scumreads you at the moment and am the safe mislynch?
On 5/10/2022 at 5:55 PM, Jeod said:You even tried manipulating Louis with the jailer vs roleblocker thing to your benefit.
On 5/10/2022 at 5:55 PM, Shade939 said:I mean, the fact that you're voting for me despite everything that's going on kind of speaks for itself...
On 5/10/2022 at 8:54 PM, Shade939 said:The reasonable question I would ask, is who can be partnered with Jeod?
Asking who could be partnered with Irish doesn't really have as many possibilities.
On 5/10/2022 at 9:49 PM, Shade939 said:Well, I'm as convinced of Jeod being mafia as I can really get.
On 5/11/2022 at 4:39 AM, Jeod said:I find it hard to believe there are two jailers in the setup at this point. I'm going to go through the thread again today and collectively summarize what narrowed me down to Shade being scum, as well as why TheIrishMan is probably his partner.
On 5/11/2022 at 5:36 AM, Jeod said:[long post about how Shade is scum]
On 5/11/2022 at 9:17 AM, Jeod said:Read my post more thoroughly, I have my item. Shade wants a BP item to exist since it’ll explain away his troubles.
On 5/11/2022 at 9:18 AM, Shade939 said:Neither, pointing out what defensive item I should have if I had one.
By the way, want to see another inconsistency in Jeod's claims, that he can trade items with players and is a smuggler...
On 5/11/2022 at 9:31 AM, Shade939 said:Also, what's up with you're laser focus on me having a passive ability to role block players @ Jeod ?
We literally have Louis claiming a role blocker who targeted you and Category 5 has the ability to influence other players actions, and you're response is Shade must have role blocked me after I tried to pass an item to him that disappeared, if anything I'd assume you're trying to cover up that you used an item and visited me last night.
On 5/11/2022 at 9:41 AM, Jeod said:So you're saying I wasn't jailed now? Is that what you're saying?
On 5/11/2022 at 9:44 AM, Shade939 said:Do you have a problem with that, because you really aren't paying attention if you think I'm the one who said that couldn't have happened?
On 5/11/2022 at 9:51 AM, Jeod said:Feel free to outline your entire version of events so that I may poke several holes in it like the Swiss cheese it is.
On 5/11/2022 at 9:55 AM, Shade939 said:1. No NK happened.
2. Louis targeted you to roleblock you, her action was used.
3. Category 5, later claims that he swapped the roleblock targets, so Irish was role blocked instead.
4. You have a very convoluted story about your role and what you did.
On 5/11/2022 at 10:16 AM, Shade939 said:Because you really are scum, if you weren't you would have accused Category 5 a long time ago.
On 5/11/2022 at 12:38 PM, Shade939 said:Hey @ Jeod , I think I found the item you tried to pass me last night?
On 5/11/2022 at 1:46 PM, Shade939 said:Proper alignment should be House Atreides instead.
On 5/11/2022 at 2:27 PM, Jeod said:I'm not mad at being voted, I'm upset that I've wasted a good part of my day playing with shade the punching bag and participating. If nobody else is going to have time for it, what's the point in putting forth the effort.
On 5/11/2022 at 2:36 PM, Shade939 said:How many of your contributions haven't been directed at calling me scum?
On 5/11/2022 at 2:55 PM, Shade939 said:From another point of view @ Jeod , we know you're Scum, and your arguments to convince us otherwise have all failed and actually convinced us even more that we should vote you up.
As much as you might try to convince us with effort, you do need to put forth better arguments, rather than trying to goad other players into distracting Town from you.
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Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:
That isn't what I did. I swapped Louis and Shade. Louis must have picked FRAYDO on her own accord.
The only case where I can see Louis jailing FRAYDO intentionally is if she considered him a scum suspect or suspected him to be the target last night. Being that she suspected you and not FRAYDO, and that FRAYDO is not a power role to be targeted by a NK, do you see any precedent for her to target FRAYDO?
And if you swapped Louis and Shade, why didn't Shade get jailed instead? It sounds like it should be pretty simple, but am I misunderstanding how this works?
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15 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:
Instant regret for accidentally giving away what I was going to do.
When did you accidentally give away that you were switching Louis' target to FRAYDO?
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2 hours ago, TheIrishman said:
I know I was dumb for missing hammer, but y'all except [redacted] were even dumber.
Knowledge != Intelligence
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7 minutes ago, FRAYDO said:
Predicting tonight's death, are we?
A description or a prescription, you think?
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I was kind of okay leaving this to RNG. Honestly the result surprises me slightly.
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6 hours ago, FRAYDO said:
Interesting. @ ChopBam r u 100% Vanilla?
Yes
6 hours ago, Retaliation said:Chopbam knew what shade meant when Shade claimed light infantry so he's either vanilla town or scum.
Vanilla scum who voted Jeod both days, and prioritized Jeod's lynch when there was at least one other viable choice.
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20 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:
I figured it was pretty obvious.
You indicated at the start of the day that you used an item on me, and also said I was cleared as town (without claiming a separate ability). It's easy to infer a link between the item and the investigative result, being that you used them both on the same person and only directly claimed the item rather than a full ability.
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9 minutes ago, Retaliation said:
Also there is a world I'm jail immune and just failed to kill Louis.
And yes this is quite far-fetched.
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5 minutes ago, Retaliation said:
My gut read is Irish is scum. I think a lot of he inconsistencies from Jeod are because he was trying to figure out how to play around his scum buddy being jailed.
This is kind of my gut read as well, but with Cat5 as a possible alternative.
At the end of the day when he was on the chopping block, Jeod expressed frustration with the inactive players here, and it's possible he was actually speaking less about the town inactives and more about a scum buddy who was inactive, so Jeod got frustrated with pulling all the weight. Now that Jeod is gone, notice that there is more activity from Irish.
This line of reasoning would indicate Irish didn't investigate me, and leave him free to make an attempt on Louis' life.
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Beyond the idea that bussing isn't really a town thing, Cat5 was able to distance himself from Jeod just enough in the last few days and even after outright calling Jeod scum, still tried to push Irish for the lynch anyway. I am curious to hear more about his abilities, however, especially these "limitations" he keeps bringing up.
10 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:If it comes down to it that I need to be lynched just to have my story verified, though, I'm fine with that. We likely have plenty of time, and my usefulness is pretty limited at this point.
If your usefulness is limited at this point, what harm could come in a roleclaim? You're still keeping things pretty close to the chest, even when asked about those things. Why keep it so close to the chest if the usefulness is limited? It could be keeping key parts of the puzzle out of the light. If you get lynched and die with your secrets, what use is it then?
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5 hours ago, TheIrishman said:
I kinda want to No Lynch so I can investigate first but I'd probably also die first.
I was under the impression that your item was what gave you the investigative ability. Do you also have a built-in investigative ability in addition to the item you had?
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Just now, ChopBam said:
One question I actually have is whether Louis is sure she really successfully blocked Retaliation, or if her target got swapped to someone else again. Before anyone objects to Cat5's claims about limitations, we can, in Cat5's own words, use our imaginations. Such as, I don't know, not being able to both bus and attempt a nightkill on the same night. His public lampooning of Jeod does give me pause, however, although he was really trying to still prioritize Irish's lynch over Jeod's.
Call this midnight brain, but I just realized I suggested two simultaneous, contradictory situations of Cat5. Independently though I think they could stand. If he is a scum bus boy, the latter situation is more likely (unable to bus and attempt NK in the same night). Claiming limitations without explaining why is pretty convenient, especially when the only person that's died so far is scum, and town has a lot less risk now.
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5 hours ago, Louis said:
The only people i can see not off the scum list is you or FRAYDO
FRAYDO made a decent, independent case against Jeod regarding his changing story.
4 hours ago, FRAYDO said:Seeing as we are lacking confirmation from ChopBam on this, this does not confidently place Irish as visiting Chop after all. If anything, this may be his best alibi given the circumstances.
Just to double confirm that the item thing was flavor, I refreshed my PM and I definitely don't have an item.
4 hours ago, Shade939 said:Wouldn't a simpler answer be Louis roleblcoked Jeod last night hence why the NK failed?
And perhaps Category 5 roleblcoked Irish instead somehow?
One question I actually have is whether Louis is sure she really successfully blocked Retaliation, or if her target got swapped to someone else again. Before anyone objects to Cat5's claims about limitations, we can, in Cat5's own words, use our imaginations. Such as, I don't know, not being able to both bus and attempt a nightkill on the same night. His public lampooning of Jeod does give me pause, however, although he was really trying to still prioritize Irish's lynch over Jeod's.
2 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:And then as far as anyone else that eventually cased and voted for Jeod, if Jeod felt he was going down for some reason, any teammate could be directed to turn on him for town cred. That fairly applies to me, but at the same time it applies to anyone else.
I don't think this scenario applies to Shade or myself, who were pretty much going for Jeod since the start.
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8 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:
From my PM, it sounds like I left you my item but I'm not sure as it was a one time use.
Left me an item? I don't think I received anything..
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On 5/9/2022 at 3:55 PM, FRAYDO said:
Snooze
With just vanilla abilities here also, I'm just kinda riding along.
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1 hour ago, TheIrishman said:
By process of elimination, Retaliation or ChopBam are my main suspects.
Yeah buddy I just spent the whole game bussing my partner.
39 minutes ago, Jeod said:I'm gonna go metaposting here for a moment. I understand that changing anyone's mind was a slim chance, but that was all genuine. Maybe it really was that folks had their minds set in stone and couldn't be persuaded, but then again most of the players here have had issues with participation in the past. That's why we started a participation/post count rule, and why we ended up having more CYOR games than anything else--because if there were no vanilla roles then everyone would have a reason to participate.
Seeing this continue after months of no mafia games at all though, that's telling me that it's not about having abilities. It's about passion for the game. Mafia is, in the end, a game of words, conversation, and deduction. There's a reason we have "famous names" in mafia here--Jeod, Category 5, OrangeP47, Shade939, etc. It's because those names are generally the most passionate about the heart of the game. Now what do you think might happen when a passionate player puts forth such effort only to be met with apathy? It's contagious and demoralizing. I'd hoped for better after months of silence.
It was so outlandish (and mixed with desperate town claims) that I just wasn't sure. Thanks for clarifying.
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4 hours ago, Jeod said:
No point in hosting or playing mafia games anymore I see.
4 hours ago, Jeod said:I'm not mad at being voted, I'm upset that I've wasted a good part of my day playing with shade the punching bag and participating. If nobody else is going to have time for it, what's the point in putting forth the effort.
4 hours ago, Jeod said:I mean step back and look at it in a general sense. If I flip scum, coasters are just going to give themselves pats on the back and convince themselves that they mattered and weren't just votes. If I flip town, coasters are just going to shrug it off and move on. My participation in this feels abused no matter how it's looked at.
4 hours ago, Jeod said:Even worse is that when I do flip town my contributions won't even be looked at. These players all have a track record this game of selective quoting and casting weak votes.
4 hours ago, Jeod said:Don't @ me in this thread.
Can't tell if Jeod was just being in character for all of this or if he's actually being genuinely upset in the parts that claim "no point in playing or hosting," "wasting a good part of the day," and "participation abuse."
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32 minutes ago, Jeod said:
Yikes.
17 minutes ago, Jeod said:Unbelievable.
Your personal expressions of incredulity are unconvincing to me.
I'd hope that even you would admit that lynching you at this point should answer more questions that we really need to have answered.
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17 minutes ago, Jeod said:
Wow, three hours to go and the game's kinda stalled. @ ChopBam If you're going to maintain your vote, mind telling me who you think my partner is? Same to @ FRAYDO . Here I'm seeing a solid Shade/Irish team and yet so far I'm the lone scum according to the peanut gallery. Mighty convenient to leave out who I must be paired with.
Finding the partner is indeed one piece of the puzzle. Usually I put bigger stock in this piece of the puzzle, but honestly you've been all over the place this game, and considering the combination of the numerous disconnected bits with all the chaos and confusion you've introduced this game, I'm happy to eliminate some of that confusion and chaos by lynching a liar. If you are town, then this is something you pretty much did to yourself.
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3 minutes ago, Jeod said:
I do, as I said in my long post.
I read your long post again, and the closest thing I can find to an answer is something we already knew: that your PM said you attempted to pass your item. And some things about how you worded this to the rest of us. But I'm not seeing where you said explicitly whether you still have the item or not.
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Just now, ChopBam said:
So, do know whether you're still holding the item or don't you?
mafia edit: "Do you know.." ??
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Just now, Jeod said:
I have a track record of telling half truths when I’m town. You know this.
So, do know whether you're still holding the item or don't you?
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[GAME OVER- ATREIDES VICTORY] Battle for Dune Mafia 1
in Forum Games
Posted
This wouldn't be a true Mafia game if you weren't jailed by RNG. Lord for the sake of all that is memes please let it have been RNG.