Games Vanilla-Chocolate Twist Mafia

[Category 5 Hurricane]

25 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Conversely, the fact that TheIrishman keeps leaving the door open for Shade to be scum when I don't think it is possible, is just another part of why I suspect him.

 

Infact, if he does have suspicions on someone other than me, shouldn't he be following Shade's call to nolynch again? It's dangerous to vote on a player in this situation unless you are sure you have it right. That's why we nolynched the first time!

[Sunflower]

27 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Sunflower, wouldn't it make more sense that if I were scum, I'd be trying to keep Shade a suspect? Why limit my options to TheIrishman? The more suspects there are, the better for me.

I've narrowed my focus to TheIrishman because that's who I think it is.

Conversely, the fact that TheIrishman keeps leaving the door open for Shade to be scum when I don't think it is possible, is just another part of why I suspect him.

Not really for me. I mean at first I didn't think Shade could be a suspect because of how gung ho he was on Orange, but the way he acted a couple days ago when he seemed so strongly opposed to nolynch despite the fact that we didn't have any cop reports to go on made me start to wonder if he was trying to end the game with a mislynch. I thought that was pretty suspicious. 

Obviously I'm not suspicious of him anymore. Mostly because I investigated you and you are town and there's been no credible explanation provided for how you could be targeted by a kill and also have my report fooled at the same time (it's probably because there is no explanation because you didn't actually get attacked last night...). But also because I don't see how he would be so opposed to voting for you if he was a scum.

[Shade939]

I feel like everyone's already completely forgot about Mojoman...

[Category 5 Hurricane]

What about him?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

1 minute ago, Sunflower said:

Not really for me. I mean at first I didn't think Shade could be a suspect because of how gung ho he was on Orange, but the way he acted a couple days ago when he seemed so strongly opposed to nolynch despite the fact that we didn't have any cop reports to go on made me start to wonder if he was trying to end the game with a mislynch. I thought that was pretty suspicious. 

Obviously I'm not suspicious of him anymore. Mostly because I investigated you and you are town and there's been no credible explanation provided for how you could be targeted by a kill and also have my report fooled at the same time (it's probably because there is no explanation because you didn't actually get attacked last night...). But also because I don't see how he would be so opposed to voting for you if he was a scum.

 

None of that answered why you think it makes sense for TheIrishman to suspect Shade. You're suffering from tunnel vision as a result of that report.

[Sunflower]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

 

None of that answered why you think it makes sense for TheIrishman to suspect Shade. You're suffering from tunnel vision as a result of that report.

I think it does because if I thought Shade was suspicious before, wouldn't it also make sense for Irish to maybe feel the same way?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just now, Sunflower said:

I think it does because if I thought Shade was suspicious before, wouldn't it also make sense for Irish to maybe feel the same way?

Well yes, Shade WAS suspicious before, but he isn't now. So why is TheIrishman the only one who still suspects him?

[Shade939]

I do take offense at being called suspicious considering some of my actions.

The short reasoning is they were way too risky for me to take if I was actually a Town player needing to basically keep myself alive in order to win....

[Sunflower]

6 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Well yes, Shade WAS suspicious before, but he isn't now. So why is TheIrishman the only one who still suspects him?

I'm pretty sure the 70/30 comments I was talking about happened the previous day when we were trying to get a nolynch for another cop report. Irish voted for you now though, so I'm pretty sure you're his top suspect now.

[Sunflower]

Just now, Shade939 said:

I do take offense at being called suspicious considering some of my actions.

The short reasoning is they were way too risky for me to take if I was actually a Town player needing to basically keep myself alive in order to win....

It's not like I'm saying you were my top suspect. I'm saying that you weren't 100% clear in my mind and there were reasons to consider you a possible suspect. Like I said, I don't suspect you anymore now.

[Shade939]

Just now, Sunflower said:

It's not like I'm saying you were my top suspect. I'm saying that you weren't 100% clear in my mind and there were reasons to consider you a possible suspect. Like I said, I don't suspect you anymore now.

Was that after I was willing to go after Orange over a minor detail in my PM at nearly the stat of the game that I should only possibly risk using if I was certain I could argue my way out of someone calling me out on it, by actually being Mafia so I'd know at least some of my fellow Mafia members should have similar names for certain?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Actually, Shade, that little stunt raised my suspicions of you. You made me think that perhaps something about the names would tell you something if people revealed them. I considered you might be fishing for power roles. Doesn't look like that anything ever came of that. I never noticed a pattern in the names so far.

[Shade939]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Actually, Shade, that little stunt raised my suspicions of you. You made me think that perhaps something about the names would tell you something if people revealed them. I considered you might be fishing for power roles. Doesn't look like that anything ever came of that. I never noticed a pattern in the names so far.

Well, Orange was very reluctant to reveal anything about his name.

[Sunflower]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Was that after I was willing to go after Orange over a minor detail in my PM at nearly the stat of the game that I should only possibly risk using if I was certain I could argue my way out of someone calling me out on it, by actually being Mafia so I'd know at least some of my fellow Mafia members should have similar names for certain?

I literally said in my post that I didn't initially suspect you for those reasons...

The reasons I started to suspect you were:

1) When we were lynching Orange, you changed your vote at the last minute to Jeod before changing it back to Orange. We were in a situation where Orange might not have gotten lynched without your vote if I remember it right, especially because I don't think Cat 5 had even voted yet. So that was pretty suspicious in my mind.

2) Orange didn't kill you with his daykill.

3) The stuff I mentioned about possibly going for a mislynch yesterday when a mislynch would have most likely ended the game.

Does it really matter though? I mean I told you that I don't suspect you anymore. Why does it matter if I suspected you before? I'm the cop. Isn't it my job to consider all the possibilities with every player?

[Category 5 Hurricane]

You guys really need to get over being called suspicious. It's part of the game and it's going to happen. A lot. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for bad. And sometimes for fake reasons. You just need to take it in stride and try to figure out which reasons are being used for those attacks.

[Sunflower]

I don't have a problem with being called suspicious for normal stuff. The thing that bothers me is the suggestion that I would bus my friend out of the blue just to try to win the game. I don't really want to participate if it's going to be that way.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Well, a somewhat natural progression of player skill when they get more experienced is to pull stunts that seem more and more unlikely, knowing they could potentially cruise to the end of the game if they do it. It's not unheard of.

Another iLTS story, he actually did kill a teammate once, to make himself look town when he was actually mafia. And I completely bought it.

[Sunflower]

6 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Well, a somewhat natural progression of player skill when they get more experienced is to pull stunts that seem more and more unlikely, knowing they could potentially cruise to the end of the game if they do it. It's not unheard of.

Another iLTS story, he actually did kill a teammate once, to make himself look town when he was actually mafia. And I completely bought it.

I could see maybe doing it if the teammate looks like they might get voted up soon. But I dunno. Out of the blue just seems like something that's not very sporting. Just my opinion anyway. And part of it for me is that it's Orange too. Friendship is really important to me. It's like the only meaningful thing in my life, so I just tend to be pretty protective of my friends. Like I said, one of the reasons I decided to investigate Orange was because I liked the idea of being able to confirm him as mafia. lol. Not like the only reason. I had a list of players that I thought might be good to clear too because when I was reading up on how to be a cop, that was one of the suggestions I found. But yeah.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

If I'm scum, why aren't you dead?

[Sunflower]

5 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

If I'm scum, why aren't you dead?

Because you knew you wouldn't be able to kill me. As for why you didn't kill Irish, my guess is because you were hoping I would investigate Jeod in order to promote maximum uncertainty by making sure the person that I investigated was killed. And last night, you knew that if you killed someone, the odds were pretty strong that it would be narrowed down against you.

[Sunflower]

Especially because you didn't know who Irish would be bodyguarding, and you needed him alive because he is your ace in the hole.

[Sunflower]

I also think it's noteworthy how Cat 5 is just mostly ignoring the part about how he could be investigated and attacked at the time. He's one of the smartest players and can't come up with a reason. It's probably just that there isn't a reason because he wasn't attacked last night...

[Category 5 Hurricane]

5 hours ago, Sunflower said:

Because you knew you wouldn't be able to kill me. As for why you didn't kill Irish, my guess is because you were hoping I would investigate Jeod in order to promote maximum uncertainty by making sure the person that I investigated was killed. And last night, you knew that if you killed someone, the odds were pretty strong that it would be narrowed down against you.

No, I don't mean "why weren't you NK'ed". I'm asking why OrangeP47 didn't daykill you. I said this before. The fact that OrangeP47 didn't kill you should show that the remaining scum member was not concerned about being investigated. 

And I do have a reason why you got a guilty on me at the same time as I was attacked, I just unfortunately can't find a name for the role and therefore I know you're going to dismiss it as impossible.

I think you were targeted with a role that caused your investigation to be inverted.  I tried finding a name for this role at Mafia Universe, and the closest I got was "Scrambler" or "Deflector" which were both marked in the "Occasional use" category. (For comparison, Cop being Common, Doctor being Common, Bodyguard being Occasional, Bullet Proof being Occasional, Silencer being Occasional, and Day Vig wasn't anywhere on the list of 475 entries)

And that goes back into why you aren't dead. I said that the fact you were not killed meant that the remaining scum doesn't have to fear your investigation, because they had a way to change your result.

 

[Sunflower]

29 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

No, I don't mean "why weren't you NK'ed". I'm asking why OrangeP47 didn't daykill you. I said this before. The fact that OrangeP47 didn't kill you should show that the remaining scum member was not concerned about being investigated. 

And I do have a reason why you got a guilty on me at the same time as I was attacked, I just unfortunately can't find a name for the role and therefore I know you're going to dismiss it as impossible.

I think you were targeted with a role that caused your investigation to be inverted.  I tried finding a name for this role at Mafia Universe, and the closest I got was "Scrambler" or "Deflector" which were both marked in the "Occasional use" category. (For comparison, Cop being Common, Doctor being Common, Bodyguard being Occasional, Bullet Proof being Occasional, Silencer being Occasional, and Day Vig wasn't anywhere on the list of 475 entries)

And that goes back into why you aren't dead. I said that the fact you were not killed meant that the remaining scum doesn't have to fear your investigation, because they had a way to change your result.

 

This is a basics game. If you had to scrounge mafia universe just to find a role that you don't even know the name of, that's totally not a basics game thing. I know there's a lot of talk about what roles ilts included or not, but I think it's pretty obvious that this game is mostly basic. I mean as far as we know, almost all of the mafia members just had vanilla roles. It doesn't make sense that ilts would include a "deflector" or "scrambler" or whatever. I mean what's next? Do we have a jester and a beloved princess too?

And about Orange thinking his partner wouldn't have to worry about being investigated, he could have just as easily assumed that about you. You weren't really under suspicion at the time at all. Nobody really mentioned you that much as a suspect at the time. When Shade asked me what I thought about you, I pretty much gave a typical "I don't think so but I guess maybe?" type reply, which pretty much suggests I didn't really think so. It wasn't until later on when you made your silence claim and started going after Irish really hard that I started to suspect you. So I could totally see Orange thinking that I would just never investigate you. Besides, if Orange killed me, he would have been giving up. He at least had an outside shot of surviving. If he killed me, that would have been it for him right there.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

On 4/16/2018 at 8:45 PM, iLikeToSnipe said:

This will be a mostly vanilla game of mafia; I do have a couple of minor twists though. So, if you want a mostly vanilla game go ahead and signup!

Cykes-dono, you're letting your emotions take over, as usual. You've decided what you want the truth to be and are avoiding anything that counters it.

Just because it's a vanilla game doesn't mean that every role is going to be predictable. iLTS specifically said that he has a "couple minor twists", so what do you think those are? One was clearly having Mafia be Town and Town be Mafia. What was the other? I'll state once again that if you think I'm lying, then you are saying that Doctor/Bodyguard is a classic role. I'll point out that such a combo is also not on the list of 475 roles.

And regarding OrangeP47, according to the plan that TheIrishman wrote out, there is no way scum could avoid being pinned by your investigation today. Simply you getting investigation results would mean that you would either find the scum directly or narrow the suspects down to one. If OrangeP47 doesn't daykill you and they suspect a protective role in the field, it's not possible for them to win. It doesn't matter if he might survive, because if he doesn't kill the cop, the chances of his team winning becomes 0 if he fails to avoid the lynch, which was pretty damn unlikely. OrangeP47 not killing you guarantees the scum team loses, unless they have a way to mess with the cop.

[Shade939]

Sigh, honestly, I'm going to regret not doing this far more than this actually backfiring on me and losing the game..

##Vote TheIrishman

[Shade939]

Yeah, I think Category 5 is Mafia @Sunflower, if you keep pushing to lynch him today then I'm going for the only shot at winning I can picture in this scenario.

[Shade939]

Actually, it's probably better to just go ahead and go for the 50/50 shot at this point regardless.

[Sunflower]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:56 PM, Jeod said:

Most basic mafia setup is a doc, cop, two scum, and rest vanilla. I think the twist was the dayshot. If orange flips scum, I’d bet my life that cat5 is the partner. Check him or me.

@Shade939 Consider this. Jeod said that the most basic mafia setup is a doc, cop, two scum, and vanilla. Cat5 admitted that he's not the doc by claiming that his secret ability was BP all along. That means that if Irish was lying, there are only three possibilities for who the doc could have been. Chop straight up said he was vanilla on day 1. Mojo said he was a "safe lynch." The only one we don't know anything about is FRAYDO. Honestly, it makes a ton of sense that Irish is the doctor....

[Sunflower]

Also. Literally the only way Irish could be scum is he he could try to kill Cat5 and target me with a scramble at the same time. That is just totally impossible.