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In some ways you're right. RenForums is a ghost town and there are only a handful of server communities left hosting servers which have definitely seen better days. Renegade as it stands is pretty dead. That's why we got some retaliation when we launched Interim Apex; the owners of those stock servers didn't appreciate the competition that we brought into their space and our server was subsequently blacklisted by the owners of the RenList server. That being said, we aren't a traditional Renegade community. We put our focus into improving the engine rather than hosting stock Renegade content; our latest version of the scripts project (version 5.0) doesn't event support base Renegade anymore. This year though, we do plan to support Renegade a bit better, in order to try and unify the communities a bit more. As it stands, I feel we are distrusted by communities such as MPF and Rencorner, which works against us, but I hope we can change our image for the better in the coming year. As for recoil, we've actually been talking about whether we should implement it or not. We have quite an amazing level of flexibility for new features these days and it's definitely something that hasn't gone unnoticed. The community makes the game, but the game also makes the community. There's a lot of charm in Renegade, but something that it does incredibly well in particular is vehicular combat. There were still games being released 10+ years afterwards that has worse vehicle implementation than Renegade. What we should definitely look to do is expand outwards, but also try and heal these wounds as you say, so that we may move forward as a community that is a fair bit more united than it is currently. I honestly don't feel that we are a laughing stock. Who's laughing at us right now? It's certainly not the rest of the C&C community or EA. I disagree about the 2000s being less PC than today though. I'm not sure if you were around in the APB/BHP community during the 2000's, but it was a really wonderful place to be (despite Aircrafkiller banning anyone who looked at him in a funny way). We had a large community who regularly played (and modded) our games, but also respected each other thanks to a moderation team that kept shitposting to a minimum and thoroughly enforced the community guidelines. Anyone who said the N word in-game or on IRC was instantly banned. You can imagine the cry of "CENSORSHIP + MUH FREE SPEECH THO" from the Grillers if that were to happen today though. I remember that time too and you're right, it was great! Unfortunately MP-Gaming has been dead of nearly a decade now and we're the only community hosting APB. MPF did a approach us about hosting an APB server, however we refused because the population in APB was so small that it didn't warrant an extra server and we also had doubts about MPF leaving the APB gameplay experience in-tact, given their track record with previous servers and questionable mods. I'd say this, AR has always been my passion project, but it has most certainly also been a source of portfolio material for me. These projects got me into the games industry and have introduced me to so many wonderful new friends from around the world. Your comment about Game Dev College rejects is rather shortsighted seeing as a large majority of our dev team are now working professionals, with a significant amount of our new code team hires being skilled professional programmers. To your last point though, it does make me realise something; we aren't as transparent with our team structure and "who's working on what" than we used to be, which may be a contributing factor to your comments. Granted, it does take us a long time to get our arses into gear and make content, but the split across the teams is a bit more polarising than you might think. The new Ground Zero project, for example, is being entirely developed by @Killing_You and @Ice (so far), who have never really held any sole allegiance to any particular projects before. KY has previously worked on audio a lot, but this is the first project that he will be doing the unit and structure work for, making this a new learning experience for him; as well as a cool game for you guys. ICE is a military specialist with 3D skills, which he will largely be carrying over to GZ. This thread will definitely be a talking point in the upcoming meeting, so thanks for posting. We do have some fairly lofty plans brewing for wider C&C community integration, but I'm not really at liberty to talk about those yet. Rest assured though, we've heard you and we will be discussing our next moves carefully. Also, AR will never end as long as I live. Come at me! The thing is, we quite like developing for the Renegade W3D Engine. This is the main reason amongst these other ones: UDK is now essentially a dead game engine because of UE4. Renegade X is on UDK, but barely has more players than stock Renegade. The draw to change engines just isn't worth it. Moving to UE4/UDK would leave us with a very high dependency on creating current/last generation art assets that require specific pipelines; e.g. PBR (Physically Based Rendering) or Normal/Specular. We don't have a team who knows how to create such assets, as we develop solely using diffuse maps. Moving engine would require to either buy or create animations for infantry, We currently have no animators on the team. Moving engine would throw away the years of work we have put into the codebase; essentially putting our code team into a position where they have to code the most basic Renegade gameplay elements (i.e Harvesting, Buildings, Purchase System) back into the new engine, which would take a lot of time and effort. Little-to-nobody on our staff roster knows how to use engines like UDK or UE4. We would have to re-learn a lot of things to become competent again. We do this in our spare time. It's not like we're being paid to make these games. Part of the reason we make these games is because we enjoy working with the engine and improving it as a hobby. Other than better graphics (which we can't have due to lack of artists), I don't exactly know why the suggestions to switch engine game time and time again. It's just not realistic. Please take discussion surrounding the BBQ Grille to a different thread instead of derailing this one. Cheers!

Have a read of the other points I mentioned and try not to focus on just one. Moving to a new engine is not a good idea collectively because of all of those things. It's like telling the Mental Omega team that they should move to the C&C3 SAGE engine or the OpenRA guys that they should be using UE4. It's just not gonna happen.

You can guarantee a functioning port? Do you know how to create models? Export them from w3d and import them into UE4? Do you know if it's possible to convert diffuse maps to specular or PBR? If it isn't, do you know how to create those kinds of maps that are demanded by UE4? Do you know how to animate models with more advanced technique than w3d currently needs? If you can do all that, then why not do it yourself--and by that I mean showcase things like APB logic in UE4, apply to staff team, offer to teach fellow developers, etc. Instead of being hostile towards dev-fans who work on these mods in their spare time and are curious about how far they can take the w3d engine, why not dig deeper and find out about personal goals and ambitions? Communication and transparency is a two-way street. We've stated already that we'd like to do a better job of it on our end, but hostility from the other end isn't productive towards the common goal.

Hi Shaitan. We've been working on getting Renegade support for the launcher, but progress has been slow because danpaul88 (our launcher guy) has been very busy getting married amongst other things. Our intentions are to get Renegade (with all of the servers) up onto the launcher so that people who enjoy W3D Hub Games can also enjoy Renegade. In October I sent you guys a PM asking what you thought the solution to our problem should be. This left the ball squarely in your court for you to make some demands so that we could form a plan together and move forward. The problem is that those demands never came through, so as far as we're concerned we've had nothing but radio silence from RC and MPF on the matter since October. As for the block, part of IA's inherent design is that it can be joined from the IA client on the W3D Hub Launcher or the Renegade client, allowing for a wider potential player base. Here are my notes from the PM I sent you on the matter: So, with that in mind, we will be trying our best to add Renegade to our launcher, but you've got to understand that this does take time. As for covering our asses legally, this is incredibly hard to do when there is a third-party tool out there (mixcheck) that is able to convert heavily modded Renegade builds into full Renegade builds by re-downloading the base mix files and repairing them. Did you know that you can get a fully working copy of Renegade from the freely available Renegade multiplayer demo if you install Scripts 4.6 on top of it and run mixcheck? Food for thought. dblaney asked us how to get his game on the launcher and we helped him. That was about it. There were no talks about any other platforms (RenList) that Apex would be hosted on, because that was really dblaney and Kaskin's decision to make. As I mentioned in my earlier comment, our long-term goal is to include Renegade on the launcher in a way that is legal. I'd like to know what we can do to satisfy you and the others in the meantime whilst we work on this solution. No offence, but I see a lot of soapboxing and shouting about how we've done a bad thing, but not a lot of ideas or solutions coming from you guys to help us all fix the problem and get us past this. Tell us clearly what you want and we can discuss it. As it turns out I was wrong. EA does give a shit about old games. I sent them a tip last year about a website called Abandonia that was hosting full isos of RA2, Renegade and Generals. When I went to check back late last year, I had seen that they had been removed, which suggests to me that they got a C&D sent to them. I wouldn't underestimate EA legal, since all it takes is one tip-off for the lawyers to come running. I'm not really concerned who blocked the server really. I just want to work towards a solution to this problem instead of bickering about it. I'm not sure what you're talking about with the scripts there. Scripts 5.0 doesn't support Windows XP at all. If you meant to say 4.x the thread wasn't due to a lack of caring, but more of a curiosity surrounding what portion of the player base still made use of Windows XP. If you read the posts in that thread it's never once suggested that XP was to be dropped because of a lack of caring. You do what you like, but just know that my offer of a solution still stands. Here's another quote from that PM with my request for ideas. There's no need to threaten drastic measures if we can find something that suits all of us. I just want to also take this opportunity to ask that you please refrain from venting these issues in public. We're all reasonable people here, so there's no need to call us out when what we all want can be achieved through PM. Let's find solutions, not more problems.

There are also few short videos with Frank Klepacki and Tiberian Sons practicing few Command & Conquer songs, check them out too:

I'm well aware of the work they have been doing, but thank you for sharing.

I thought it was you, you change your name more than a girl getting ready to go out on a Friday night haha. I know you're stance on our projects and you've had this view for a long time now. It might be on the cards at some point, but not in the near future as you can see we have more immediate tasks. If you want to talk about things more about this, hit me up on Discord. This isn't really that on topic for this, but it's a fair statement.

Actions do speak louder than words. However, I for one don't judge a mod by graphics alone. For example, these guys got a functional chronotank complete with a teleport-targeting map into W3D. A selling point for UDK wouldn't just be that it looks better, but you'd be wise to make an argument for the greater possibilities and ease-of-functionality. Consider what features APB/TSR/AR could have but are limited by W3D, and consider if UDK could support such pipedreams. Take it as a challenge if you like. Either way, seeing C&C FPS progress on more engine platforms will most likely be a spark to the greater modding community even if it doesn't affect the dev team here. I think proving that it's possible and showcasing the possibilities will bond the community together in a way it desperately needs.

Whats stopping you? You're about a year or two from irrelevancy to basically everyone but yourselves. move to a new game engine. take some fucking initiative to learn something new. You're literally beating an already beat to a pulp game engine with terrible net code that makes it basically unplayable on less than high quality internet connections. You're stagnant, and adding ships and pretty textures wont change that.

It's fine, I just did this to confirm to "TeamWolf" that the notion was a complete waste of time. I'm glad to see testimate beat me to the punch tho, I'll let him carry the torch on this mess.

I believe we need to look again at the purpose of this thread and the main argument. Forget the Grille, we need to address the community as a whole.

Well, one of the reasons I joined was to implement that into the game, along with better gunplay in general. So I hope this part of your concerns will be addressed soon.

I'm actually going to agree with the community aspect. We really should seek collaboration with the other communities and encourage some sense of solidarity again. The C&C Renegade community as a whole needs this.

This would be awesome! I really liked playing on the Volcano map. Good times with Light Tanks being up to scale up those steep hills.