Pushwall

Just because it's still the least used unit does not mean its usage rate has not been boosted from before. Besides, something will always end up being the "least used unit". And not every option that is explored is doable. For example one of the ideas I had for it in Delta's development was to make it usable on all maps by allowing it to jam the radar of players within a certain radius of it even if there's no dome at all. So, for example, you could plop it behind a wall in your base somewhere and enemy infantry rushes would have a harder time if they couldn't take it out beforehand because they would lose their radar after getting deep into your base and wouldn't just be able to watch their radar to see when defenders are coming. Which was, according to jonwil, not doable. So I had to just can it from all non-dome maps. :/ If that's the case then you'd be better off trying to pin down what unit or what map causes it as I did in that report. "Here's a thing that happens at complete random!" doesn't help anyone especially since it doesn't even lead to crashdumps. And since you are apparently the only person with this issue...

10% now. Enough to give "naked" teammates just enough armour to matter.

This is actually no longer true, it had to be removed because it interferes with the "has to be manned or deployed to do something" logic (iirc if a passenger gets out it would turn off even if it's undeployed with a driver or deployed period?) MGGs also had a passenger slot at the start of Delta and this was removed for the same reason. This is also true of the ore in ore silos.

Hi, I remember you! I'd say it's absolutely worth it, but then as the lead developer I might be a tad biased A number of oldies have come back and seem to be here to stay so you shouldn't have any trouble fitting in. Here's a few things of note: infantry other than Volkov are actually worthwhile now, Tech Levels don't gradually unlock anymore (everything that is available on a map can be bought as soon as you have money), and naval combat has returned - as someone who's been playing for longer than I have I'm sure you've missed it! And that's just a TL;DR of those 3 things, there's so many more major changes but I'd rather not bore you with the details. However, I'm still supporting the game with constant balance/bugfix patches, so you can expect that most major problems that arise won't be sticking around for too long. That reminds me that I never did post a full changelog for 3.0 :x Here it is though I doubt Mike is looking for a big wall of text.

There's already a limit of 2 MGGs at a time anyway. Because a certain other mod whose name is apparently taboo to mention in comparison to APB has already shown what happens when you let a ton of units with big animated domes run rampant.

I might ask the script guys about making MGGs deployable too, but they'd probably have to be removed from Complex if that were the case because their bubbles cover like half the playing field, both above and below.

I've heard enough about Zama being too similar to Bonsai as it is, does it need to be more similar? Let's not and instead point out that units under a MGG are getting hit less and therefore generating less points/credits for the enemy, which is pretty much the same thing. So none of these things count? Getting rid of the prized Gamma "feature" of causing headaches and being a Player Quit Factor Making the jamming SILENT to the other team instead so they don't immediately notice unless they happen to be looking at their radar at the time of jamming Removing it from all the maps that don't have a dome, so newbies don't buy it expecting it to do something in places where it doesn't do anything Making it deployable so you can be a useful field rocket/sniper/mech/tanya and jam at the same time Doubling its hitpoints and raising it to light tank speed It could be better, yes, but seriously? A points trickle? That doesn't make it more useful because points don't actually do anything useful, it just means that matches that don't end in base destruction are a little more likely to result in +1 to the stat total for Allied victories, making it harder to take map stats seriously because we have to consider the possibility that Allies are winning close games on map X because they're abusing Mobile Points Generators as well as the possibility that Allies' defenses/terrain/OP unit makes it easier for them to get points through combat/deny points from the enemy than it is for the Soviets, and whatever thing is responsible needs a little nerf (or something opposite needs a buff). It doesn't even make base destruction easier like removing radar and diverting enemies to bring it down does.

Could have tried to find a spot to ram/overtake, jump out and stick a C4 on it. That's what I did on Pipeline recently. Looks like there wouldn't have been enough time for that here though

I can give medics/mechanics a flat income for healing which is unaffected by the "value" of the unit they're healing to make it less abusable. Here's some potential values to start: Medic healing: 10 credits per second. Since medics heal 10 health per second your teammates have to be losing that much for you to gain that much though. And bear in mind that this is better than the income you get for damaging any infantry. Given the time taken to abuse, it's probably not worth abusing. Mechanic healing: 10 credits per second. Since mechanics heal 75 armour per second your teammates have to be losing that much for you to gain that much though. This, on the other hand, is less than the income you get for damaging most vehicles. Since vehicle health repairs at 37.5% the speed armour does, that goes down to 3.75 credits per second when healing a vehicle that has no armour or has been hurt by things that pierce armour, such as shock damage and oh yes water damage. Hoorah for reduced abuse potential! Points are of course not being given. As far as I'm aware recommendations for repairing vehicles and buildings do still exist, not sure there have ever been ones specifically for infantry. I remember "Good Support" from MP-Gaming which covered both infantry and vehicles though. But last I checked there's no value in the auto-rec config that handles recs for repairing infantry, only vehicles/buildings

I should clarify then. His medic kit is getting more use. Even when still in possession of a weapon that allows him to be good for more than just the medic kit.

The flamethrower already only gets one shot every 3 seconds. There really is no reason for it to be any longer than that. The higher it goes, the more crippled he becomes in the open (which I thought you wanted him to be better in?) and the more overpowered he becomes in any situation with lots of cover for him to hide behind while reloading (like Fissure or certain building interiors). A few patches ago Volktillery had about 25% more DPS and it rendered raiding buildings from within mostly obsolete. And even then he was still doing "merely" 60% the DPS of a V2. I'm considering raising the grenadier's range a little instead, because the range gap between a Grenadier and the more damaging RPG is actually not that significant. When do Allies need a squishy 250$ machinegunner when they can just use a ranger? When do Allies/Soviets need a squishy 300$ rocket guy when they can just use a medium/heavy tank? When do Soviets need a squishy 900$ shock trooper when they can just use a tesla tank? Vehicles are not fit for all the situations that infantry are (and vice versa). Vehicles cannot get to all the places that infantry can. Vehicles are really easy to hit. Vehicles leave infantry behind when they die. A grenadier+V2 combo actually seems like not a bad idea because you're not going to bring your V2 close to the enemy base anyway (unless you have a pretty damn robust escort that also wants to attack things), it's going to be pretty hard to stop sneaky flankers from destroying your V2 even if you hop out with a shock trooper or something, and the more time you spend sprinting to the enemy base to continue attacking when your V2 inevitably dies, the more time the enemy has to start repairing. Also I hear MPRA2 is basically trying to get people to boycott the grenadier now because it is underpowered in his hands (just like, you know, the old one which was also underpowered in his hands). Unfortunately I don't negotiate with terrorists so this is not going to get me to do anything that reasonable people aren't requesting.

It may not be that common but I do see others using him properly at times. Particularly on Pacific Threat where there's no ground vehicles and Under which is really small. But he's certainly getting more use than Gamma and Nuclear Winter (I can't speak for versions before that when I wasn't around but I get the feeling it wasn't any different.) I used to very rarely see APC medic rushes in Nuclear Winter but that hinged on using donations to get an APC before Soviets can get a minelayer Now that the Engineer has a much easier time of removing mines I'd really like to see someone actually pull off a medic + engineer + some form of fire support (sergeants, captains. tanya, possibly even another medic) apc/truck rush and take down a mined building with it and continue to live long enough to cause a little more havoc in the Soviet base. He also has his non-healing purposes (the MP5 is basically the Allied version of the flamethrower except based on direct damage instead of splash; only the other team's equivalent and commando weapons really surpass it in close quarters) but that's not what we're talking about

Problem there is how easy and effortless it is to generate risk-free damage for yourself on any map that has water, or for infantry, ledges or buildings that you can climb up and jump off. Medics and mechanics will just be able to abuse that to generate a bunch of free credits without also generating free credits for the enemy because they're not the ones damaging them. But since you're saying they shouldn't earn points doesn't that mean you're already somewhat aware of the abuse potential?

Never seen this, got any screenshots? ...well actually, I have seen it. Except it was in Nuclear Winter and not Delta. Never saw it in Gamma either.

Doesn't happen to me. C4-type weapons are server side. I can't fix lag and I can't make the animation perfectly synced to everyone's individual lags either. C4 should have the exact same problem since it uses the exact same logic, why've you never complained about that, especially considering you only get one shot with them so having your aiming thrown off is super bad? If you notice a really bad desync between your click and the actual firing maybe you should stop firing for a couple of seconds and start again to let your game sync with the server. Just like how when C4ing a terminal you should stop and jump in place for a second or two so that you can be sure that your position matches what it is on the server so the C4 will actually land where you want it. So... you want it to be the old one but a bit stronger. So you want a $160 unit to be exactly as good (or better) than a $300 one that was in the same role. I can't believe I never thought of that It is impossible to have anything between "linear falloff to 0 damage at max distance" and "no falloff".

Turret held together by sellotape and hope after an infantry rush. I think it stayed like this for a few minutes cause I was more concerned with keeping actual buildings alive and the soviets had no WF after the initial rushes anyway. More stellar parking!

Not really. In C&C (assuming you mean TD/RA) you do more damage to a tank if you hit it in the very middle, and do less damage the further from the middle you hit. This is easiest to see when you have a bunch of tanks attack a stationary tank and then attack a moving tank, particularly in RA where tanks aren't inaccurate, they will all still clearly appear to hit the moving tank but it will take more "hits" to kill as the tank moves away from the impact point. This was also the case with infantry who had the exact same sized hitboxes as vehicles; it just wasn't as obvious because bullets had a much smaller splash radius than explosives, but still large enough that they would still take damage from bullets that landed on the tile adjacent to them (though in their case, moving to reduce damage didn't really help because bullets were instant and running meant not taking the 50% damage reduction bonus of being prone). But of course none of that translates well to an FPS environment. Well, except prone, but that doesn't translate well to this engine, which I actually find a shame, and I'm honestly surprised it's not in Renegade to begin with.

In a similar vein I believe he can also be used to disrupt mechanics that are trying to repair a vehicle while it's attacking. Which flamers aren't as good at because of their slower running and damage falloff, and the delayed explosion aspect of nades isn't as great a deal there because the explosive follows the vehicle around anyway so the mech has to get away from IT (or get in if it's multi-seated) to be safe. I think I will make them undisarmable since that lets them do the anti-building/anti-repair job better against anything that has to be repaired from outside (like defenses). Granted, if you're at the appropriate range, it's basically a non-issue right now because the grenades explode in 3 seconds after being thrown and take 1 second to disarm with the normal tool. So if it's in the air for more than 2 seconds it's not getting disarmed. I'll have to look up the wrench rate though. Will probably give his 60 health back too. He'll still die in the same amount of self-harm mishaps since it's a fixed 15 damage through armour Of course, the last match I got to use them in (where I got to get some pretty good use out of them) someone was gem farming and left me with 10000 credits anyway so I *could* have just used a Volkov instead and done more when I wasn't pummeling buildings - but as I mentioned before this isn't always going to be the case, and being able to reasonably afford a Grenadier but not a Volkov when you want him for long-range building hunts is far more likely than being able to reasonably afford a older Grenadier but not a Flamethrower (not to mention you're certainly not getting a Volkov on the 7 maps that aren't TL5... or rather 6 because one of those is Hostile Waters where there really is no place for grenadiers to artillery buildings from. But that's still a lot of maps.) This is kind of what I was going for. Volkov's status as a "jack of all trades" was dubious when there was nobody else in the "artillery man" trade to compare him to. Now that the Grenadier is that, Volkov no longer has any weapons that stand out, he just stands out by having a wide variety of them and being hard to kill, which is about as much distinction as he needs.

Half seems like a bit too much. Bear in mind that his current radius is 10, same as the flamer/kovnades, and 5 puts him equal to a shocky, who has been described as "has to hit between someone's feet to splash them". And the shocky doesn't even have to worry about a 3 second delay on his attacks . The radius of 10 combined with the "if you're in the radius you take full damage" feature is meant to allow him to stand some chance of splashing infantry in the field while also making him harder to use non-suicidally in super-close quarters, making it much lower than that kind of undermines that. Maybe a bigger explosion effect would help with the "intuitive" aspect? As for removing the pistol, maybe, though to prevent him from suddenly dying to techies I'd also have to remove the "disarmable" effect from grenades - that was another thing to discourage use in interiors but it's probably not necessary; the high chance of self-harm probably already does a good job of that. Not sure how getting rid of his pistol and dropping his splash radius down to "nigh unusable except on things the grenade sticks to" levels makes him "viable" even with the price drop though, compared to his current state? The flamethrower is meant to be used in buildings and has trouble hitting people in the field even when they're in range anyway, I'm not sure how more range could really help with that, so maybe he could just use more accuracy or a faster projectile? Most people who use him probably couldn't care less if he had his current 80 range or 40 because that's still just enough to fire from one end of the WF interior to the other (of course this is all hypothetical, he certainly doesn't need a range nerf, and he uses a fireball-thrower which would be silly to have such a short range for anyway.)

But according to you that means mud-slinging and avoiding issues. So since that's not in my interest, I'll get back to issues: That only makes sense if you see the previous grenadier's role as what it was intended to be - "close quarters splash guy". But since the flamethrower had the exact same role but also did it better in exchange for costing very slightly more, the grenadier never got used, except on Fissure where you can't take a step without running into an enemy so being able to buy a splash unit the instant the game starts actually matters. So outside of Fissure his role was actually deemed "looks pretty in the purchase list" by the meta. Considering that his new intended role of "long range building harasser" is only shared with an infantry that costs 1000 credits more and isn't available on every map either, there's got to be more situations that he can be applied to than the old grenadier, so it should be a lot harder to shove him into "looks pretty in the purchase list" again. Basically, he is now a much cheaper version of Volkov with much less power against vehicles, instead of being a marginally cheaper version of the flamethrower with less power against everything. So the Grenadier is still a unit that borrows another unit's role, but instead of being worse at that role in every way, he's damn near equal to Volkov in that role, but worse at other things. Also the price gap between him and his superior version is big enough that you might actually care about saving the money. 1000 is much more likely to matter than 140 when it comes to providing for impoverished late-joiners, getting a bigger vehicle or saving for later because you lost a ref/silo and need to make sure you can actually get something after you die. I suppose I could have made the grenadier free and nerfed him a little because even in his previous state he was not appropriate for being actually free, and that would mean there are situations where he gets bought instead of the flamer, but that also means when both teams have no barracks or no money to get a good infantry to put in their vehicle, the Soviets' options are much better and much more varied than the Allies. Not to mention it would mean instant grenade rushes could be a thing without worrying about not being able to get a HT when you die (and then you can of course put a free grenadier in that HT) and depending on how cramped the map is, that may well be uncounterable until medics/snipers are available. But once the Soviets actually have money he would suddenly be a joke compared to the 160 grenadier, because paying the extra 300 for the flamethrower is still nothing compared to now paying the extra 1000 for Volkov.

I was pointing out how secondary fires that you can't tell are different from the primary are a bad idea. This is regardless of what game does it. Reborn just conveniently happens to be a W3D mod that does it so I can use it as a comparison. You are now the one bragging about actual unit role differences specifically between the two games.

Huh, I guess TeamWolf is insane then. 500 may not be the ~perfect~ price tag. But the thing is, we cannot accurately put a price on it without knowing how good it is. And how do we do that without seeing it in action? 160 is too little now that he's actually competent at a role, and people seem to have this aversion to him having a price that stands out due to not being a multiple of 50, and anything less than the flamethrower means he's still really spammable on Fissure, so I had to give him some price increase and matching him with the Sniper and Medic seemed a good place to start. But if he's proving to be too inefficient then he may go down to 300-400 or so. Strangely nobody ever seems to complain about the spy costing 500 despite him being worth much less than the grenadier's previous 160 price tag except in very specific maps... Yes, that was not the intent. It just happens to be the one W3D mod I know that really loves the "this secondary fire is arbitrarily anti-something that the primary is not, but since it looks and sounds identical to the primary and fires at the same rate you'll never be sure what it even is without extensive testing or delving into the objects.ddb" thing, so that mod an example of the problems it causes. The fact that it just happens to be Reborn does not matter... or rather, it wasn't supposed to but apparently it now does. If people absolutely want a close-quarters splash unit, hey guess what? That already exists. It's called the flamethrower. You've all been using it for years because it did everything that the grenadier did better, except on Fissure where the grenadier was able to be deployed faster. Stop feigning ignorance.

Exactly.

I could give the LAW a range boost of about 5m to compensate for the "80 damage but more ROF" RPG just being better against everything that's not an MBT. But that also makes it easier to outrange flame towers...