A Path Beyond Remove snipers

[SarahNautili]

Seriously, they're nothing but a killwhore tool. They contribute nothing to the game but cheap instant kills that are hard to defend against.

[Testament]

First off, no their not. I've used the Draganov to kill mechanics and counter snipe. They are great for defending the base against the first rush and for shoot engineers repairing base defenses. 

They are not cheap, takes quite a bit of skill at long range actually.  

[SarahNautili]

you're about the only one that does so, most of the time I've seen them used it's just for easy k/d whoring on maps like Pacific threat

[SirJustin90]

I must say I've never been a fan of snipers for this game with limited range infantry. Although the advent of running has helped a bit.

 

I still think the old soviet sniper with no headshot (kind of like a DMR) was far more appropriate for the gamestyle A Path Beyond has. But it sure beat the old instakilling monster that the allies had back in the day.

 

I'd just love to see all snipers be the old soviet sniper; a lower damage ranged rifle, with a fairly rapid fire rate with no headshots. It kept people surpressed and made them panic and run all over the place. Most snipers hated this, but it made it a fine supression rifle rather than a 2 shot / 1 hs infantry crushing weapon it is now. (Still better than Allied DEATH CANNON, by far. )

Edited May 26, 2017 by SirJustin90
Capitals Fix

[Pushwall]

See the thing is we can't do a "no headshot" gun without either making all guns no-headshot guns, or making the snipers use splash damage which then causes them to deal server-side damage which would therefore make actually aiming them impossible because you have to magically know where the server thinks the enemy will be instead of where you think the enemy will be. So then they just become spray and pray. Another alternative is making them use a damage-over-time effect set to like 20 damage over 0.1 seconds, but then that means they cancel burns/shock and can't hurt people who are drowning. And if two people happen to shoot the same guy at once they get less of an effect. Which aren't significant downsides to the one other unit this currently applies to, the shock trooper, because he can actually do something other than shoot infantry.

[SirJustin90]

11 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

See the thing is we can't do a "no headshot" gun without either making all guns no-headshot guns, or making the snipers use splash damage which then causes them to deal server-side damage which would therefore make actually aiming them impossible because you have to magically know where the server thinks the enemy will be instead of where you think the enemy will be. So then they just become spray and pray. Another alternative is making them use a damage-over-time effect set to like 20 damage over 0.1 seconds, but then that means they cancel burns/shock and can't hurt people who are drowning. And if two people happen to shoot the same guy at once they get less of an effect. Which aren't significant downsides to the one other unit this currently applies to, the shock trooper, because he can actually do something other than shoot infantry.

Actually can't you? Since you can set headshot multipliers as you showed in the weapon pass where you were switching 3x to 5x... and just set it to 1x? Or is that universal and not per unit/weapon/shell_type?

 

We used to have this with the soviet sniper right?

[Pushwall]

Just now, SirJustin90 said:

Actually can't you? Since you can set headshot multipliers as you showed in the weapon pass where you were switching 3x to 5x... and just set it to 1x? Or is that universal and not per unit/weapon/shell_type?

It's universal.

Just now, SirJustin90 said:

We used to have this with the soviet sniper right?

The early Gamma sov sniper was partially projectile damage (which is affected by head/limbshot multipliers) and partially splash damage with a 0.1 radius (i.e. only triggers on a direct hit... or what the server perceives to be a direct hit). The early Gamma sov sniper was also hot garbage.

[SirJustin90]

5 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

The early Gamma Soviet sniper was partially projectile damage (which is affected by head/limbshot multipliers) and partially splash damage with a 0.1 radius (i.e. only triggers on a direct hit... or what the server perceives to be a direct hit). The early Gamma Soviet sniper was also hot garbage.

Eh, I did well with it. But like I said most hated the hell out of it. But I found it fit well, but if it is indeed limited to splash only, that kind of removes it as an option due the the bad detection of splash. And a large splash would effectively make it a sniper flame thrower in essence.

[ganein14]

38 minutes ago, SirJustin90 said:

Eh, I did well with it. But like I said most hated the hell out of it. But I found it fit well, but if it is indeed limited to splash only, that kind of removes it as an option due the the bad detection of splash. And a large splash would effectively make it a sniper flame thrower in essence.

Or in extreme cases, like the 9935 nuke sniper from the map SOVIETALLIESLOL.

[SarahNautili]

And the nuke sniper was a pretty terrible unit even for a LOL map since he could just keep units locked inside their bases for the entire match.

 

 

 

But yeah if we're removing the grenadier for being an annoying (but counterable) "building sniper" it makes no sense to not also get rid of the actual sniper, which is a lot harder to counter - "get vehicles" works well till the War Factory goes down and doesn't work at all on infantry maps, and "get cover" doesn't work well on maps like Pipeline with no cover in the bases, or if there's multiple snipers at good angles for a crossfire (that one match of pacific threat earlier), and "get hinds" works until there's a single rocket soldier within about a mile of the sniper, and that's if you can even find the sniper in the first place (again, pacific threat) 

Edited May 26, 2017 by SarahNautili
i fucked up

[SirJustin90]

Just now, SarahNautili said:

And the nuke sniper was a pretty terrible unit even for a LOL map since he could just keep units locked inside their bases for the entire match.

 

 

 

But yeah if we're removing the grenadier for being an annoying (but counterable) "building sniper" it makes no sense to not also get rid of the actual sniper, which is a lot harder to counter - "get vehicles" works well till the War Factory goes down and doesn't work at all on maps like Pipeline with no cover in the bases, or if there's multiple snipers at good angles for a crossfire (that one match of pacific threat earlier), and "get hinds" works until there's a single rocket soldier within about a mile of the sniper, and that's if you can even find the sniper in the first place (again, pacific threat) 

That is too true. I never found the grenadier to be a major issue. But the sniper is a big problem especially on maps without ground vehicles (pacific threat.. again) ... or like you said when the War Factory dies goodluck.

[devilslayersbane]

I rarely use snipers. The scopes don't provide enough information to help range the shots and the most I'm ever able to get is a perfectly survivable body shot. Snipers can be annoying, but you're also not talking about the big picture. Snipers are a great diversion to a large rush. Think, about it. The soviets have a large heavy tank rush, a lone soviet sniper makes it to a decent vantage point to start shooting into the allied base. The allies make a perfectly rational, but exploitable, decision to focus on the sniper as the heavy tank rush hasn't been spotted and the sniper can do more immediate damage. The soviets can then use this as an opportune time to steamroll the allied base. A similar effect can be done with the allied sniper.

[SarahNautili]

That's great in theory, but almost never happens in practice, more likely the sniper is camping without care for what his team is doing, or worse, in smaller games taking up a player spot that could be doing a lot more useful things than snipe rifle soldiers hanging around the base.

[ganein14]

Then how about this much more likely scenario? A group of tanks (either side) is rushing towards the enemy base and is primed to do some serious damage to it after it has lost its War Factory, but not its OT. The side that's being rushed spams rocket soldiers (or shocks/kovs) and is in place to stop them. A decent sniper or two could easily pick off some of them as they moved to engage the tanks.

[Testament]

Snipers have their place in APB. If you wanna see kill whoring and cheap one shot insta kills take a look at the ramjet of vanilla Renegade. One shot kill to basic infantry, no bullet drop and a one shot kill head shot on anyone character. I have seen snipers used in a myriad of roles, if there are bothering you go buy a captain or use a soviet rifle soldier and run them down. If people wanna sniper people that's their prerogative, denigrate and nag them in game to stop being a useless pleb to the team.

TL;DR lern2dodge

[ChopBam]

Snipers are fine as-is. They take skill to use. Any vehicle or infantry up close is a threat to them. They are unable to repair the base, defend against vehicle rushes, or join rushes, all of which are extremely valuable roles. They can be heard from a mile away. Their shots go wild if they bunnyhop. Radar sneaking is a thing. Tons of map cover is a thing. Use them.

[SarahNautili]

1 minute ago, ChopBam said:

Snipers are fine as-is. They take skill to use. Any vehicle or infantry up close is a threat to them. They are unable to repair the base, defend against vehicle rushes, or join rushes, all of which are extremely valuable roles. They can be heard from a mile away. Their shots go wild if they bunnyhop. Radar sneaking is a thing. Tons of map cover is a thing. Use them.

the same arguments fished up back in beta, for the overpowered beta sniper, and they only ring slightly more true today - there's plenty of bases that don't have enough cover (pipeline), plenty of places where the cover's only good for one direction (so two snipers means there's basically no cover) and, again, war factory down?

 

Also the bunnyhopping thing doesn't matter when they only need to land one headshot or three bodyshots to end the battle, so the other infantry can't risk *not* bunnyhopping. Even at point blank range they're hard to fight.