Games [Game Over] RA:APB-themed Mafia Game VII (B0tes Edition!)

[Shade939]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

I think the difference between land and sea would be shown though.  Unless you have a rule saying it won't, I'm not going to follow your logic on the matter.

Taking several facts together Orange, I find it more likely that the Spy Plane has a different action to scout the map, and that scum are trying to present the NK as scouting action instead.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Taking several facts together Orange, I find it more likely that the Spy Plane has a different action to scout the map, and that scum are trying to present the NK as scouting action instead.

Good luck with that theory.  I don't think it's going to gain any purchase.

[Jeod]

Shade stop being you.

[ChopBam]

43 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Are you going to claim to be the Spy Plane?

The Spy Plane can't shoot.

He is a submarine in Q3.

[Shade939]

37 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Good luck with that theory.  I don't think it's going to gain any purchase.

No, I'll insist on the fact it's a good theory, but I don't think it's how it actually works reviewing what was said in some of the initial rule posts.

I would argue that the NK functioning as scout/killing action would be a better mechanic for it in a battleship themed game though.

And I'll still point out that the Spy Plane has basically eliminated the Airfield's position from about half of the map now...

[Killing_You]

1 hour ago, Shade939 said:

And I'll still point out that the Spy Plane has basically eliminated the Airfield's position from about half of the map now...

What is it supposed to do? Not scout as to keep the Airfield hidden?

Also, I'll go ahead and mention that I was notified when the Spy Plane scouted my position.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

What is it supposed to do? Not scout as to keep the Airfield hidden?

Also, I'll go ahead and mention that I was notified when the Spy Plane scouted my position.

I mean true, as time goes on, the hidden space naturally decreases.  Hence why I wasn't too eager to be shooting earlier, but saying the spy plane shouldn't spy is an extreme.

[Shade939]

32 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

I mean true, as time goes on, the hidden space naturally decreases.  Hence why I wasn't too eager to be shooting earlier, but saying the spy plane shouldn't spy is an extreme.

If you had an ability to reveal four tiles in a cross section on the  map, what would you choose to focus on scouting first?

[Shade939]

You wouldn't be focusing on filling in the map, and spacing your action out so it'll effectively eliminate any hiding place for the Airfield.

If anything, you should be directing it at confirming players locations so we can validate if they are telling the truth about where they are, one very effective use of the role would have been to target Jeod's coordinates since no one shot at them yet, and so no one would need to waste a shot on that area and a player's role could at least be semi confirmed.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

You wouldn't be focusing on filling in the map, and spacing your action out so it'll effectively eliminate any hiding place for the Airfield.

If anything, you should be directing it at confirming players locations so we can validate if they are telling the truth about where they are, one very effective use of the role would have been to target Jeod's coordinates since no one shot at them yet, and so no one would need to waste a shot on that area and a player's role could at least be semi confirmed.

TBH revealing someone's FULL coordinates before they awknowledge them is 1) kinda rude, 2) not actually a good test, because it wouldn't catch anyone in a lie when they've just been quiet.

The airfield still has plenty of places to hide, and the plane might have thought it was already down in Q4 or something so stuck to the left side of the map.

[Shade939]

Just now, OrangeP47 said:

TBH revealing someone's FULL coordinates before they awknowledge them is 1) kinda rude, 2) not actually a good test, because it wouldn't catch anyone in a lie when they've just been quiet.

The airfield still has plenty of places to hide, and the plane might have thought it was already down in Q4 or something so stuck to the left side of the map.

What else would use an ability to reveal tiles on the map for though? It's honestly more of a scummy ability than it is a town aligned one.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, Shade939 said:

What else would use an ability to reveal tiles on the map for though? It's honestly more of a scummy ability than it is a town aligned one.

Town are probably more open about their positions than scum, on the margin, so it's not necessarily about what you see, but how people react to what they see.

[Shade939]

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Town are probably more open about their positions than scum, on the margin, so it's not necessarily about what you see, but how people react to what they see.

It's one of those balancing issues that'll need to be addressed later on. Revealing tiles on them map is only really useful for proving that a player is there and letting them use submerge, or letting everyone shoot at a player at those coordinates. The later which the Spy Plane seems to be more focused on.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

It's one of those balancing issues that'll need to be addressed later on. Revealing tiles on them map is only really useful for proving that a player is there and letting them use submerge, or letting everyone shoot at a player at those coordinates. The later which the Spy Plane seems to be more focused on.

Well nobody said Verti is perfect

[Killing_You]

9 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

You wouldn't be focusing on filling in the map, and spacing your action out so it'll effectively eliminate any hiding place for the Airfield.

If anything, you should be directing it at confirming players locations so we can validate if they are telling the truth about where they are, one very effective use of the role would have been to target Jeod's coordinates since no one shot at them yet, and so no one would need to waste a shot on that area and a player's role could at least be semi confirmed.

 

9 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

What else would use an ability to reveal tiles on the map for though? It's honestly more of a scummy ability than it is a town aligned one.

There's a few problems with this line of reasoning.

First, it requires somebody to claim their coordinates. If you'll notice, very few of us have. If you use it only to confirm player's locations, and nobody has any location claims for you to confirm, what do you do? Sit on your hands?

Second, even if you do get claims out of people, you can only check them one person per night. That's extraordinarily ineffective.

Third, let's say that it was indeed a scum ability. Why would it show up for all of town to see? Looking at the role sheet in the OP...

...both the Gunboat and the Destroyer have scouting abilities. Yet, aside from Jeod's report of being pinged by the Sonar Pulse, we haven't seen evidence of either of those actions. Even then, Jeod's position was not revealed on the main map; he had to tell us that he was pinged. (And if I haven't said so yet, yes, I do believe that scum have a more complete map than us). Why, then, would the Spy Plane show up if it was a scum ability, yet the other actions wouldn't?

I think Shade's throwing us off the trail. Perhaps purposefully.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

I think Shade's throwing us off the trail. Perhaps purposefully.

I think he's just being obtuse.  Besides, even if he was, what's the end game?  Gang up on the spy plane?  Nobody's claimed, and even if they had, the spy plane is pretty clearly a soviet unit regardless of whatever it is it does.  This is a tall ladder, and I don't think scum would try to bark up it when they have other options.

[Shade939]

KY, my entire claim that the Scouting action is the NK instead should be incredibly easy for the Spy Plane to disprove if that's it's ability, and if anything I'm pointing out how they're sabotaging the Airfield by using their ability as they are?

[Shade939]

On the other hand, if that is the NK, I've now made things much more difficult for Scum to freely use that ability to scout around, and made everyone aware of the possibility if it turns out to be true.

[Killing_You]

So, why wasn't I hurt when I got tagged?

[Shade939]

Just now, Killing_You said:

So, why wasn't I hurt when I got tagged?

There are multiple things in game pointing to the fact that not everything is a valid target for the NK, some of which is the fact that Depth Charges usually don't work as well on land.

[OrangeP47]

I think KY would know if he could avoid the depth charge 

[Shade939]

At the moment, we have a single players claim that they received a message to the effect that the Spy Plane is responsible for that action, until you're role is proven or validated by other players, there are some doubts if you aren't making that claim up.

But when you have Jeod, Category 5, Voe, and yourself claiming to be informed of unusual events that occurred during the night, I'm not really inclined to dispute your claim or think you're making it up. Also, your claim was made after my claim you know.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

At the moment, we have a single players claim that they received a message to the effect that the Spy Plane is responsible for that action, until you're role is proven or validated by other players, there are some doubts if you aren't making that claim up.

But when you have Jeod, Category 5, Voe, and yourself claiming to be informed of unusual events that occurred during the night, I'm not really inclined to dispute your claim or think you're making it up. Also, your claim was made after my claim you know.

Claims must be flexible and develop as new information presents itself

[Killing_You]

Something just came to mind: If Town loses the airfield, we'll lose not only the Spy Plane (I assume), but the lynches as well. If this is the case, then we'd have to rely on blind fire and claimed positions to find scum, while scum would still have their scouting abilities. What would you suggest Town do in that situation?

[Shade939]

Just now, Killing_You said:

Something just came to mind: If Town loses the airfield, we'll lose not only the Spy Plane (I assume), but the lynches as well. If this is the case, then we'd have to rely on blind fire and claimed positions to find scum, while scum would still have their scouting abilities. What would you suggest Town do in that situation?

And that's my biggest complaint about the Spy Plane's role if it reveals tiles, it's ability is likely to lead to it's elimination from the game itself. And yet the only time when we should need it's ability is after it should be eliminated from the game, and we can't lynch players so we have to shoot them instead.

[Shade939]

4 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

Something just came to mind: If Town loses the airfield, we'll lose not only the Spy Plane (I assume), but the lynches as well. If this is the case, then we'd have to rely on blind fire and claimed positions to find scum, while scum would still have their scouting abilities. What would you suggest Town do in that situation?

There's only one thing you can do, try to do some preliminary scouting before the airfield is discovered, and then try to outgun Scum with superior firepower. Also, at that point it's likely that Verti would reinstate the quadrant reveal mechanic to help narrow down who's firing from where.

[Killing_You]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

There's only one thing you can do, try to do some preliminary scouting before the airfield is discovered, and then try to outgun Scum with superior firepower.

And you just described what the Spy Plane had been doing the whole game.

[Killing_You]

MAFIA EDIT: has* Dang it, drunken fingers.

[Shade939]

Just now, Killing_You said:

And you just described what the Spy Plane had been doing the whole game. 

It could still easily be my least favorite role to have in the game. I'd basically call it a negatively neutral role in terms of what it's ability does in game for Town.

It's probably somewhere around there with a Bodyguard role that can only die instead of another player.

[Shade939]

Yeah, it's not a very fun role to have when you can easily wind up helping Scum win the game based on practically nothing more than RNG.