Balance Do you use the Flamer?

[des1206]

I think most units are pretty widely used these days, even the nader after the range buff - now he's great vs. base defenses! Splash even kills techs quickly! (Although I disagree with the recent engineer buff. It used to take 4 hits from a grenade splash to kill an engin repairing a base defense, now it takes 7). 

Anyway, Fissure aside does anyone consistently use the flamer? I feel every role he can be in is usually overshadowed by another unit, and his slow speed makes him an easy target.

Making him anymore lethal will just be OP on infantry only maps, or eclipse the RPG Trooper vs vehicles or Shockies vs. buildings. He can't be faster too since he was a slow unit in Ra1. Maybe we can:

1. Increase his flame damage, increase reload time, keep DPS constant. Makes him a unit that can really make use of the cover system Volkov style.

2. or Give him more armor, make him a heavily armored but slow infantry. Maybe a bit of an arty/phase counter?

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by des1206

[NodGuy]

No, I never use the Flamethrower unit and I haven't seen anyone use it in a very long time. I would rather the Kapitan unit 100% of the time.

[OrangeP47]

I use them sometimes, and actually see them used a lot more often than I see grenadiers used. I see them most often on Pacific Threat and Wasteland. I'll admit, they're kind of situational, but in those two places as well as a select few others they really shine. Defending from higher up with them really shines. A few times I've seen them used (and used them myself) for infantry rushes against the allied buildings or the ore silo, as they're handy for clearing out engis/techies.

[Pushwall]

6 hours ago, des1206 said:

the recent engineer buff.

 He's had that 50% splash reduction for all of Delta, before the Grenadier even had his role remodeled. The +50 armour just means it's harder to bring him to the breaking point of taking much more splash damage - something the grenadier was never able to do against freshly bought engineers in the first place because the highest his armour-breaking's ever been is "equal to health damage". Fun fact: Something Engineers don't have 50% resistance to is... flamethrowers! They do block the burning effect, but in close quarters where you're reliably getting close splashes or even direct hits, that accounts for maybe 5-10% of your total damage. The burning really only makes a difference if your splash damage is being hampered by far misses or cover, which isn't going to happen inside buildings.

I primarily use Flamers when I expect my vehicle to be able to get close to enemy buildings before it dies, when I need to defend against infantry infiltrations, and maps where infantry dominate (Pacific/Under on top of the obvious options of Fissure/Wasteland). He's the best option for taking out buildings - Starshina has a negligible edge in MCT power but Flamer doing more damage when not hitting MCT allows him to start contributing to team damage earlier and also continue doing noticeable damage to the building while defending himself from attackers, and Shocky has a more noticeable edge in MCT power but can't really hack it in infantry combat unless he scores direct hits. Downside is the explosion when he dies which can hamper his use in attack teams, but if you know about that and can predict how long you have to live, you can turn it to your favour by moving away from your allies and towards enemies.

Flamer is also like the Shocky in that direct hits help a ton, though unlike the Shocky he can make do without them. If you're inside a building (particularly the WF where enemy has to travel a straight line to get up to you) and aren't bunnyhopping, it's not too hard to pull off. If projectile extensions weren't bugged to go through walls when fired at point blank range, I would totally give his fireball a larger projectile hitbox to make this purpose more reliable (but reduce the damage). As it stands though only a select few vehicle weapons have that property due to the difficulty of lining up their muzzle to almost the exact same spot as the wall (and even then they're still sometimes bugged - I'm sure all of you have seen a V2 rocket fall through the ground at least once).

http://w3dhub.com/ranks/apb/unitstats.php

Given that the flamethrower gets bought about as often as the Starshina (2 units whose stat tracking are actually workng, unlike the nader) with marginally better results against infantry and much better against buildings, and considerably outpaces the Kapitan in both departments when it comes to kills per purchase (Kapitan is only doing better on total kills because many more people buy him, presumably since he is much easier to use), he can't really be doing that bad can he? It's been a whole year since his last real nerf or buff (the "burn damage lasts longer but does less DPS" is more of a sidegrade, slightly nerfing him in CQC but at the same time buffing him in the field, and his increased armour-melting simply brings him in line with the captains who were also upgraded for that role) so I don't think it can be attributed to earlier use that much.

Maybe he can splash himself less?

[OrangeP47]

49 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

I primarily use Flamers when I expect my vehicle to be able to get close to enemy buildings

That's actually a pretty good idea. I tend to buy rocket soldiers because I always expect I'll need to take out enemy vehicles, but I might switch now.

[JigglyJie]

I use them a lot, I find them be an all-rounded unit and I think they're just 'okay'. Not too good but not too bad either.

[des1206]

Seems like he's one of those jack of all trades but master of none units huh?

[ganein14]

Except against armored units I believe.

[des1206]

2 hours ago, ganein14 said:

Except against armored units I believe.

If I recall from my testing he actually pretty decent DPS-wise if he can always land his shots.

[Raptor29aa]

First off he damages himself so as to prevent early flamer rushes by supply truck into buildings (used to awesome and unstoppable) 

his slowness is stop the peek-a-boo games of the past. Where fast enough side stepping meant high kill count.

As a result he can't be massed like shotgun rushes, or massed as field units like captains.

Thus he is more of a specialist. In a vehicle rush he would be the infiltrator while the rest of the team shot at the outside of the building. Or taking the high ground to defend against an enemy assault. (have you seen what he can do on a roof top)

The flamer has an important role of disbursing groups of enemies. (I use him all the time in infantry defense scenarios)