A Path Beyond Ideas for improvements of infantry only maps

[Raptor29aa]

I have Ideas to improve either to fissure, forest of illusion, or rock trap.

Idea #1 how about player controlled cannons? They would have limited health and might be something for those who are not good at infantry combat to do. 

(Remember cannon or turret; not pill, not flame, not m60, nor machine gun.)

Idea #2 (fissure only) capturable oil pump? It allows some who don't like infantry combat to instead go for a moneymaker.

what do you guys think?

Edited July 11, 2017 by Raptor29aa

[Pushwall]

In these maps where units rarely engage with each other at distances greater than the cannon's minimum range, in rooms/corridors/valleys that range from "narrower than the cannon" to "barely wider", where exactly would the cannon would fit gameplay-wise? To say nothing of where it would fit thematically. I might as well put icebergs on Pipeline and palm trees on Camos Canyon.

Whatever gets done with Fissure or RockTrap, I might try scaling them up by like +25% or +50% as well. They're just too cramped, and they're such small maps that it won't really be a pain to have to redo all the scenery.

[Raptor29aa]

I should specify. When I said cannon, I meant an allied turret, not a cannon like on Siege.  Some sort of neutral attack/defense structure.

[Raap]

I figured you meant that. On a side note, the Siege cannons cannot be copy pasted into other maps as easily as other defenses, they need an assigned failsafe exit teleport zone and destination, something you cannot do in a proxy.

But as Siege's Cannons should tell you, player controlled defenses cause some oddities in a fight, when people use them to hide inside of them. W3D needs to support the ability to damage the driver(s) of a "vehicle" upon damaging a sub-hitbox, so that you can actually kill players to take control of a defense, and to punish people using them as escape shields in a fight. This would actually make Snipers useful as well, and have this expanded to certain open-cabin vehicles like Rangers and the various trucks.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Raap

[Pushwall]

11 minutes ago, Raap said:

and have this expanded to certain open-cabin vehicles like Rangers and the various trucks.

Do supply trucks, ore trucks (two of the least useful vehicles), rangers, gunboats, and especially V2s who will have the hardest time of dodging sniper fire really need to be nerfed in this way though?

[Raptor29aa]

@ Raap you bring up a good point. It's almost as if the turret would have to start destroyed and be repaired. (Although on domination maps someone would have to become a techie which wouldn't work. 

It could on fissure, lol.

Also what do you think about an oil pump  on fissure?

Also I never liked the idea of a killable driver (hence why the forklift on riverraid is so sweet) (and yes forklift on infantry only map would be funny, but not worth the time it takes to implement it)

@ pushwall maybe expanding fissure so narrow long hallways have more space to dodge flamer or shotgun slugs. And it would more than 8 seconds to walk to the other team's base which would be useful. And who knows maybe a neutral structure. 

[Raptor29aa]

@ Raap you bring up a good point. It's almost as if the turret would have to start destroyed and be repaired. (Although on domination maps someone would have to become a techie which wouldn't work. 

It could on fissure, lol.

Also what do you think about an oil pump  on fissure?

Also I never liked the idea of a killable driver (hence why the forklift on riverraid is so sweet) (and yes forklift on infantry only map would be funny, but not worth the time it takes to implement it)

@ pushwall maybe expanding fissure so narrow long hallways have more space to dodge flamer or shotgun slugs. And it would more than 8 seconds to walk to the other team's base which would be useful. And who knows maybe a neutral structure. 

[FRAYDO]

Infantry maps, but with one side playing as Allies and the other playing as Ants.

[Pushwall]

36 minutes ago, Raptor29aa said:

Also what do you think about an oil pump  on fissure?

That's also a possibility. But where would it go that has almost the same travel time and accessibility for both teams though, given the way the terminal is positioned. It can't go anywhere in the centre because of the collapsible platform that blocks access to the lower centre, and it would make no sense for it to be on the man made platforms.

[Raap]

8 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Do supply trucks, ore trucks (two of the least useful vehicles), rangers, gunboats, and especially V2s who will have the hardest time of dodging sniper fire really need to be nerfed in this way though?

It'd have to be considered experimental and probably only work with direct damage (so no splash damage). I'm just highlighting potential extra usage of such functionality, but my case for it with defenses stands, one needs only try to fight around the cannons on Siege to see that problem.

[Raptor29aa]

7 hours ago, Pushwall said:

That's also a possibility. But where would it go that has almost the same travel time and accessibility for both teams though, given the way the terminal is positioned. It can't go anywhere in the centre because of the collapsible platform that blocks access to the lower centre, and it would make no sense for it to be on the man made platforms.

Maybe replace the underground silos?oyu have a good point.

[NodGuy]

8 hours ago, FRAYDO said:

Infantry maps, but with one side playing as Allies and the other playing as Ants.

Only if the Allies are yellow. 

[NoSpoons]

"Ideas for improvements of infantry only maps"

Add vehicles 

[Raptor29aa]

1 hour ago, NoSpoons said:

"Ideas for improvements of infantry only maps"

Add vehicles 

Fork lifts and tacos and a supply truck ;-)

[Pushwall]

On 7/12/2017 at 1:42 AM, Raap said:

But as Siege's Cannons should tell you, player controlled defenses cause some oddities in a fight, when people use them to hide inside of them.

This was an especially big issue with Gamma's version of Antlion which had an immobile version of the cargo truck that you now see on Pipeline/Metro. Not only could you hide inside it but it was indestructible. And it was very close to one of the spawning areas - forget whose team though - meaning the other team could use it to spawncamp (wait for people to spawn, kill them, hide in truck forever when things get hot, rinse and repeat) assuming someone else wasn't spending the whole match sitting inside it for the express purpose of preventing that. I really wonder what was going through CJ/PA's heads sometimes.

[Raptor29aa]

I remember that. There's no way I would want anything indestructible on a map.

I was just trying to suggest some sort of variety. Something odd to break up the chaos. Be it a destructible turret or pumps Or even meteors raining down from the sky or a lava flow would be an interesting change like dust storms on pipeline. 

(By the way I do enjoy the random cyborg commando on FOI.)

[Testament]

I feel like inf only maps are too narrow. APB needs room to maneuver in infantry combat with places to advance and fall back too. It's far removed from the days of hitscan sniper only maps of Renegade. (I actually do quite well in those)

In regards to fissure, I think it needs to be slightly longer (15 minutes?), have more objectives, routes and space inbetween the bases. Maybe an open field in the canyon if that's not too difficult and maybe a pumpjack or two to capture like others mentioned. A good way to prevent economic ruin for teams when the silos are down would go a long way. I find it a tad silly to play a map where the sole goal is to buy a medic or a flame thrower within the first bit of money you get and then runaway with it the second you get in trouble, (Wasteland is a good example of where this doesn't happen) only to refill and be back in the fight within 10 seconds for nearly 10 minutes. I'd like to see the infantry maps be a place where people hone their skills instead of being destroyed instantly. I think a way to stop the mob of players in a single spot so that fighting can be more one on one is something to be explored and discussed since duels are rather thrilling IMO.
 
I quite liked the revamped Forest of Illusion sans the slenderkov/rebarn killwhoring and the pistols only. Not many inexperienced players like getting decimated completely, even though I got into APB playing Fissure over LAN with friends back in Nuclear Winter/Gamma.

Perhaps a simple set of tutorials available on the launcher in video and written form could help new players (and make them less likely to quit) like the manual back on the BHP launcher did for me in 2009/2010. Problem is in how we keep them relevant