Discuss Red Alert 1's Time Line

[Chad1233]

I remember old discussions years back about when RA1 took place and recently I found a transcript archive of a Q&A that took place in 06 Feb 1996 which was really early in RA1's development and had some interesting information. Well It may not be much but I always wanted a specified date of the war unless I missed some information somewhere. XD

VENOM: what's the story behind RA and in what time and technology level will it be on ?

WSAdam: Okay -- Here's the scoop: World War II never happened the way that we think of it. Hitler never came to power, and there was no WWII... for a while. We're spinning European history in a new direction, with Joseph Stalin and the USSR coming to power as the big heavy in the game. The player can play the Allies or the USSR as they strive for conquest of Europe. The technology ranges from 1940's to 1980's, but that doesn't mean that you're going to be commanding Pintos! We've also spun the technology up a bit, so there's plenty of cool stuff for you to use.. like attack dogs!

Rambo: what will RA's story line be about?

WSAdam: RA is an alternate time line that takes place in the 70's. WWII in Europe happened in another way, where Stalin and the USSR became the big heavy that threatened Europe.

Also some neat early ideas at the time

kane: how will you earn your money to make units? Tiberium?

WSAdam: Ahh- this is somethingwe changed. Since Tiberium isn't around yet, the player has ore to mine (on the board, not in mines) to get money -- there are three types of ore, so which one you go after will determine how much money you get per load. Sure, you can go after the copper, but that Iron deposit is worth more, but closer to the opponent - - it adds a strategic advantage to what you collect.

WSAdam: there are three ores, Copper, Nickel, and Iron. Each is worth a different amount of $$ per scoop for your ore collector. We've kept the metaphor of harvesting, but now you've got a dump-truck like unit with a scooper, and an Ore Processor.

WSAdam: Side note -- we considered power lines, but they were problematic for the computer and made the game a lot more of a sim than we want it to be.

They were found here: http://www.tibcom.com/wchat/transcripts/

[NodGuy]

I like the idea of RA taking place in the '70s but it doesn't make sense when it comes to Stalin. He would've been almost 100 years old by that time but he definitely doesn't look like it in the game.

[Goliath35]

I still like to have the thoughts that the World War II we all knew and fought on our PC's had intertwined with the early years of the cold war (Allies vs USSR irl to NATO vs Warsaw pact), I mean it would make sense in the way that some of the technology you saw in that alternate world war had some technology that existed irl (nuclear weapons, fighter jets, attack helicopters for example (albeit not on the same level, or was invented later on)). 

With that said, for the allies in particular as I've noticed some people whine and bitch about how the M1 Abrams (the medium tank) doesn't make sense to appear in the 1950's, you can always take a look at medium tank as the British Centurion tank. 

That's my 50p on the matter, so if you've read this you deserve a medal for this incoherent gibberish. 

[Chad1233]

20 minutes ago, NodGuy said:

I like the idea of RA taking place in the '70s but it doesn't make sense when it comes to Stalin. He would've been almost 100 years old by that time but he definitely doesn't look like it in the game.

I'm guessing that's why they quietly scrubbed the year from being mentioned anywhere pass the Q&A. :P

[Mojoman]

This is one of the best time line write ups I've seen. It's years old now and probably inaccurate in some parts, but it's still an amazing afternoon read.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/pc/196957-command-and-conquer/faqs/13721

[GraYaSDF]

@Chad1233, @Mojoman - really good stories, I enjoyed a lot. I think I will read that document completely later.

[Chad1233]

While this topic is old, I do have something new to add to my own topic from a magazine page I found with the help of a friend. As Westwood went further into the concept of the timeline of Red Alert 1 and changed it up over time. Apparently it now started in the 1940s and ends nearly to the 1980s. That would make it an insanely long lasting war!

Also speaking of pre-release content, Red Alert 1 had plans for a hijacker to steal vehicles and engineers were able to repair bridges. There's actually source leftovers for that but it does nothing except give a "enter" cursor I believe. In skirmish, countries were meant to have bigger house bonuses and they mentioned Italy (beta allied house) as having extra firepower and lower armor. A shame that wasn't utilized very well except for small buffs.

Most interesting part was you could lose some missions that could change the story in minor ways, and characters like Tanya can die mid-campaign and permanently be gone in the rest of it. I have no idea how they were suppose to do that.

Sources are from here.

https://archive.org/details/intelligent-gamer-issue-2-july-1996/page/n45/mode/2up?q=command+conquer

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Chad1233

[Ice]

On 11/6/2019 at 12:26 PM, NodGuy said:

I like the idea of RA taking place in the '70s but it doesn't make sense when it comes to Stalin. He would've been almost 100 years old by that time but he definitely doesn't look like it in the game.

Exactly, the whole 1970s comment really just seems like them speaking without putting any real thought into it in that regard. Regardless of any other factors, Stalin being alive and not visibly decrepit means that RA1 absolutely could not have taken place any later than the early 1960s (and even that's a stretch), although the 1950s is the most likely overall (personally I've always considered RA1 to take place from 1949 to 1953 and that's most likely never gonna change lol).

[Chad1233]

3 hours ago, Ice said:

Exactly, the whole 1970s comment really just seems like them speaking without putting any real thought into it in that regard. Regardless of any other factors, Stalin being alive and not visibly decrepit means that RA1 absolutely could not have taken place any later than the early 1960s (and even that's a stretch), although the 1950s is the most likely overall (personally I've always considered RA1 to take place from 1949 to 1953 and that's most likely never gonna change lol).

Well after, all these statements were made really early in RA1's development, in my opinion it is perhaps a leftover when RA1 was in early planning development stage when it was still just an expansion pack to C&C1 which it started out as. During the first story drafts it might of simply been NATO vs Soviets as shown in the radar sidebar from the pre-alpha mockup screenshot Westwood released. So a 1970s timeline would make the biggest sense there considering the tech in the game. It's possible Stalin was added to the mix quite soon during development and they had to change the timeline again once they realized the age gap.

The idea that it started in the 40s and lasted to the 80s would make sense as well since the early tech in RA1 is primarily WW2 based and then you start unlocking 70s tech later on. Though the question would be is why none of the generals age during the campaign? Stalin and others should be dead by end of it, along with a granny Tanya.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Chad1233

[Killing_You]

Technology is a pretty poor way to judge timeline IMO. We don't really have a "technology tree" set in stone IRL, and alternate universe shenanigans would naturally lead to different designs appearing at different points in time. Plus, Anachroism Stew is nothing new and shouldn't be used to assert time period (unless you're ready to argue that X-Men: First Class takes place in the late '80s due to tomahawk missiles being shown, or that The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly is set in the 1890s or later due to Tuco handling a Bodeo M1889 in one scene :P ) Having Stalin added late in the development cycle would certainly explain the jump in tech out of universe, but it wouldn't effect the in-universe timeline.

Frankly, the timeline ending the war in the mid-1950's makes a lot of sense, not just because of Stalin, but because of Red Alert 2. That game is soaking with the atmosphere of the height of the Cold War, from Dugan being somewhat an amalgamation of John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon to the penultimate Allied mission being very obviously based on the Cuban Missile Crisis, so it's almost certainly set in the 1960s.

[Chad1233]

Well this thread is more about discussing the original intentions of Red Alert 1's timeline since Westwood kind of left it up for guessing when it first came out. In my opinion Red Alert 2 is such a different game it hardly looks canon to the original Red Alert, that was more grounded and shared tech with GDI/Nod (excluding giant tesla coils and giant ants). The amount of crazy stuff in Red Alert 2 suddenly goes missing in C&C1 like Prism Tanks, Mirage Tanks, etc. Westwood clearly planned RA1 to be the direct prequel to C&C1 since RA1 would end near the start of the first game originally and not have the existence of RA2.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Chad1233

[Ice]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:03 AM, Chad1233 said:

Well this thread is more about discussing the original intentions of Red Alert 1's timeline since Westwood kind of left it up for guessing when it first came out. In my opinion Red Alert 2 is such a different game it hardly looks canon to the original Red Alert, that was more grounded and shared tech with GDI/Nod (excluding giant tesla coils and giant ants). The amount of crazy stuff in Red Alert 2 suddenly goes missing in C&C1 like Prism Tanks, Mirage Tanks, etc. Westwood clearly planned RA1 to be the direct prequel to C&C1 since RA1 would end near the start of the first game originally and not have the existence of RA2.

RA2 has no connection to the Tiberium universe, so the extreme amount of crazy tech in RA2 isn't a problem in that sense; Westwood themselves even stated that RA2, although following on from RA1, takes place in its own separate universe where the world took a very different turn from that of the Tiberium universe. Both timelines canonically follow the Allied victory (with the Soviet campaign as a non-canon 'what-if' scenario), but something about the war itself or its aftermath was drastically altered to produce the RA2 timeline.

In fact, according to Westwood's internal drafts for Tiberian Incursion which EA later developed (albeit heavily changed/reworked) into C&C3, the RA2 universe was directly caused by time-travel shenanigans involving Yuri, similarly to how RA1 and the Tiberium timeline were caused by Einstein's time-travel shenanigans in the first place, making RA2 an 'alternate-alternate' universe. (Which is kinda funny since RA3 was also caused by time-travel shenanigans, making it an 'alternate-alternate-alternate' universe, with the general pattern seemingly being that every time history is changed, the world just gets progressively crazier )

[Chad1233]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:03 PM, Ice said:

RA2 has no connection to the Tiberium universe, so the extreme amount of crazy tech in RA2 isn't a problem in that sense; Westwood themselves even stated that RA2, although following on from RA1, takes place in its own separate universe where the world took a very different turn from that of the Tiberium universe. Both timelines canonically follow the Allied victory (with the Soviet campaign as a non-canon 'what-if' scenario), but something about the war itself or its aftermath was drastically altered to produce the RA2 timeline.

In fact, according to Westwood's internal drafts for Tiberian Incursion which EA later developed (albeit heavily changed/reworked) into C&C3, the RA2 universe was directly caused by time-travel shenanigans involving Yuri, similarly to how RA1 and the Tiberium timeline were caused by Einstein's time-travel shenanigans in the first place, making RA2 an 'alternate-alternate' universe. (Which is kinda funny since RA3 was also caused by time-travel shenanigans, making it an 'alternate-alternate-alternate' universe, with the general pattern seemingly being that every time history is changed, the world just gets progressively crazier )

Also don't forget that Westwood actually tried to tie RA2 into C&C1's timeline during Renegade 2's first initial development with the Scavengers. It would of been interesting too see how that would of worked out. But it seems shortly after they scrapped all of that, and was turned into "RA2 but as a FPS game" like Apocalypse Rising before cancellation. Some early alpha screenshots have shown that later build to even have working multiplayer to some extent with the Prism Tanks.

Edited August 24, 2023 by Chad1233