[GAME OVER- ATREIDES VICTORY] Battle for Dune Mafia 1

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Not exactly, I waited for you to say anything at all, and since you didn't I decided to vote for you. You sure have interesting timing. I don't think your name was even in the thread when I came in to post.

[TheIrishman]

I've been slowly typing out my stuff while watching TV since 3 something. I just assumed you were painfully waiting while watching the italisized name for the last hour or so after I read the "I'm done waiting"

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Ok, I like this post, though I will point out that the idea that Jeod could have targeted TheIrishman also works in reverse, and this is one of the alternate theories I've been thinking about.

##unvote

An extension of that is the NK might not have been blocked, but failed because it landed on a mafia player due to one of them being swapped. TheIrishman suggests BP, I figured that a NK directed onto a mafia member would just auto fail, but the result is the same. In this scenario, a mafia player is one of TheIrishman or Jeod, but not both, and the NK came from outside that loop.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

8 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

I've been slowly typing out my stuff while watching TV since 3 something. I just assumed you were painfully waiting while watching the italisized name for the last hour or so after I read the "I'm done waiting"

No, I was doing things and checking back occasionally, and I voted when I decided that you weren't going to say anything. The only time I saw you online was just after you were done with work.

[TheIrishman]

That theory doesn't exactly work in reverse though. If I was scum, it doesn't matter who I targeted because I'd have been blocked by being jailed. But we don't "know" Jeod was jailed, so if he's lying then I'm the only target for him that would've negated his nk. At least with the info we have.

Huh, I've always thought if a NK was bussed that the target player would die unless they had some type of BP. I mean the ability of bussing is to have the targets switched while the actions follow through.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

3 minutes ago, TheIrishman said:

That theory doesn't exactly work in reverse though. If I was scum, it doesn't matter who I targeted because I'd have been blocked by being jailed. But we don't "know" Jeod was jailed, so if he's lying then I'm the only target for him that would've negated his nk. At least with the info we have.

Huh, I've always thought if a NK was bussed that the target player would die unless they had some type of BP. I mean the ability of bussing is to have the targets switched while the actions follow through.

I technically do not "know" you were jailed either. I just know Louis claimed to be a jailor that targeted Jeod, and I swapped Jeod with you, and you claimed to be jailed. Seems legit, but if the two of you are a team, it could be a double fake. So that scenario still works on you in reverse. But yes, rather outlandish, all outside factors considered.

As far as a NK hitting mafia, that's another one of those things where it would be up to the GM to decide. Town bus drivers aren't popular because of that potential where mafia risks killing themselves and can't do much to stop it, (in a 3 person MYLO with a town bus driver, how does mafia win?) so usually mafia members are made immune from their own attacks. How that would be resolved in this case, I don't know. You could be correct as well, we wouldn't know the difference.

[Jeod]

Ok Irish must be partnered with Shade then because he didn’t even acknowledge that Shade could have blocked me via self defense.

GM said there are no guns in the game right? Why would scum need BP then? It’s far more likely that scum would have a defense ability to prevent investigations on them.

[Jeod]

@ Category 5 Hurricane I’m surprised how easily you accepted that block of text.

[Jeod]

##vote TheIrishMan

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I sort of feel like all the bullshit is a huge distraction, so I want to refocus on what we think we know.

We know there wasn't a kill N1. We don't know why.

Possibility #1 is that TheIrishman was going to do the kill and was stopped by Louis

Possibility #2 is that TheIrishman was the target of the NK and protected by Louis (unclear if Louis's ability actually has this function, jailors don't always protect)

Possibility #3 is that Jeod was going to do the kill and was stopped by ???

Possibility #4 is that Jeod was the target of the NK and was protected by ??? (again, unclear if this is actually possible)

Possibility #5 is that Jeod targeted TheIrishman but was redirected back to himself. 

Possibility #6 is that mafia did not do a kill, and all this other stuff has nothing to do with it.

Sorted more or less in the order I think it's possible, ignoring outside factors.

I'm sort of assuming Louis is actually a jailor for all of this, otherwise the possibilities open up to just about anything and become worthless to think about.

 

[Category 5 Hurricane]

@ Retaliation  keeps quietly mumbling that he was going to take credit for stopping the NK. Is this where the mystery second jailer comes from?

[Jeod]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

@ Retaliation  keeps quietly mumbling that he was going to take credit for stopping the NK. Is this where the mystery second jailer comes from?

He claimed vanilla.

[Jeod]

I find it hard to believe there are two jailers in the setup at this point. I'm going to go through the thread again today and collectively summarize what narrowed me down to Shade being scum, as well as why TheIrishMan is probably his partner.

[TheIrishman]

I actually missed that. But a self defense jailor? Seems like a stretch and weird to handle in a game that already has a jailor. Would that have been swapped to me as well if you targeted him? Would I have had to target Shade to have it be swapped with you? But I'm jailed so I couldn't have targeted someone to activate anything in the first place. Self defense roleblocker would be more likely, but doesn't line up with what you've said. And they both seem pretty unkillable unless he just got lucky with a one time protection item against you and saved himself. Then he would've lied about being vanilla town. But your indecisiveness towards your own actions and demanding others to clarify before you could even assert passing an item, along with a bus driver being your first thought makes you the more likely culprit in my mind.

And, Jeod, you gotta press inconsistencies then. Like Shade, how do you know anything about items and whether you can have them as vanilla town? I have an idea but would like to hear your thoughts.

But me asking him in your place will make you press me for "coordinating with Shade" but looks more to me like you're reacting/panicking instead of trying to find out the truth.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

9 minutes ago, Jeod said:

He claimed vanilla.

Yes, well, I wonder.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Anyway, I've delayed going to bed long enough. Off for now.

[Jeod]

There's a lot to quote here so I'm just reading from Day 2 and writing my responses to the timeline.

DAY 2 - https://w3dhub.com/forum/topic/427942-day-2-battle-for-dune-mafia-1/?do=findComment&comment=727980

Shade has claimed vanilla, with no abilities or items

With no nightkill, Shade immediately posts that the previous night was "interesting". One would expect Town to react with a bit more surprise. Chopbam catches this and asks about this very point.

Shade simply responds that Chopbam should know what's so "interesting". Shade knows he's been visited and his self-defense has been triggered, and here is looks like he thinks Chopbam did the visiting.

I chime in with the most likely possibility. Shade's reaction to this statement, if he were town and had a self-defense blocking ability, should be different. Instead, since Shade is scum, he responds differently.

I threaten to shoot Shade. Obviously, scum being daykilled with no nightkill would be a major setback. This is where Shade starts to get tunnel vision. Fortunately for him, FRAYDO brings up the excellent point that there are no daykills. (Honestly here I'm not sure why he didn't just let me question Chopbam like I wanted and see how that played out)

Shade takes control of the discussion by asserting the two possibilities are a blocked nightkill and a no-nightkill, and says only the latter needs to be discussed. Why? He goes on to state that whoever could have prevented the NK should come out and state it (so they can be nightkilled after a mislynch?).

---

Now we'll shift over to my point of view. Louis starts questioning me, and Shade thinking I'm a threat to him is all too eager to latch onto it. At this point I know that I attempted to pass my item and that I was put in a cell overnight. So I know that I got roleblocked, and knowing that jailers can be protection roles, and given Shade just asked them to come out, I wanted to tread carefully.

Shade immediately starts probing Louis to see if she prevented the kill. My reaction is to lump Louis and Shade together and wave it off by saying I passed my item. I try to redirect the discussion to Chopbam again--worth noting that at this stage of the game I believed Chopbam could be scum. Unfortunately I make the mistake of saying Louis should just come out and say if she blocked me, which is what Shade is looking for.

I adjust my stance. Louis hasn't explicity said she's a jailer, so I soften the roleblock. I suggest my PM was vague, that I "probably" didn't pass my item, etc. I then try to get back to Chopbam, but Shade of course is in control. At this stage I start paying more attention to Shade acting scummy and possibly being a partner to Chopbam, who was my initial soft scumread. Shade and Chopbam start going back and forth a bit. Again, Shade remains in control of the discussion and I can barely get any words into Chopbam.

Here my stance changes, as a result: https://w3dhub.com/forum/topic/427942-day-2-battle-for-dune-mafia-1/?do=findComment&comment=728091

Shade is becoming a stronger scumread than Chopbam, so I shift my focus to him. I tell him I targeted him because on Day 1, he wifom'd a potential bulletproof item by saying scum would have to nightkill him. Note they keyword here: bulletproof. Where has that come up recently?

While at work I'm limited to my phone for posting, as well as prone to interruptions to train of thought (I'm at work, duh). I'm just now reading about what happened to TheIrishMan and trying to get a summary. Shade obliges, but reading back now I'm noticing that Shade never asked TheIrishMan about his claims. He took them as fact and just backed him when I clarified if my summary was right.

Let's pause here. At this stage in the game, scum Shade only knows that Louis claimed to roleblock me and that TheIrishMan was jailed (presumably by Cat5 thanks to Chopbam's guessing). Scum Shade has no idea that Louis was redirected to TheIrishMan, nor does anyone for that matter. Despite this, he still accepts the idea that there are two roleblockers in the game immediately. Why? Because his scum partner confirmed what happened in the scumdoc.

Back to the posts--I disclose that Louis is a jailer, and add that jailers are protection roles. I default to that idea because, on epicmafia (where I was first introduced to the game over a decade ago), the jailer role chooses a target and opens a masonry with them for the night, and simultaneously prevents their choice from being targeted by anything else for the night. I'm used to the jailer role being a protective town, like doctor.

---

I'll fast-forward here since I feel it's redundant to go through posts within the 12 hour window. I already provided the logical trail that led me to guess Cat5 was softing bus driver before he openly claimed it. I will however respond to this post from Chopbam: https://w3dhub.com/forum/topic/427942-day-2-battle-for-dune-mafia-1/?do=findComment&comment=728244

It's bullshit. I made up the manifest part. I was at work during the jailer revelation so bringing up that my item was still in my inventory didn't ener my train of thought. What smuggler uses a manifest?

---

Irish, you seem a little lost. Where did anyone say anything about a self-defense jailer? I've been saying that Shade has a self-defense roleblock ability since I was put in a cell after visiting him. Thanks for agreeing that it's likely though. As for pressing inconsistencies, I've been working my angle as just explained. If you've spotted inconsistencies, why haven't you brought them up?

[Shade939]

BP should be activated shield generator by the way.

[Shade939]

Otherwise I'm disappointed at how that obvious an item is missing from this setting. 

[Retaliation]

4 hours ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

@ Retaliation  keeps quietly mumbling that he was going to take credit for stopping the NK. Is this where the mystery second jailer comes from?

I only did that once. It was a joke because there was a cluster of games where I was always the roleblocker.

[Louis]

34 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Otherwise I'm disappointed at how that obvious an item is missing from this setting. 

Are you talking about Jeod's missing item or yours?

[Jeod]

4 minutes ago, Louis said:

Are you talking about Jeod's missing item or yours?

Read my post more thoroughly, I have my item. Shade wants a BP item to exist since it’ll explain away his troubles.

[Shade939]

5 minutes ago, Louis said:

Are you talking about Jeod's missing item or yours?

Neither, pointing out what defensive item I should have if I had one.

On 4/24/2022 at 8:34 PM, Killing_You said:

     Previous Mafia games have also featured Items. They will make a return in this game, but with a twist. Rather than having a seperate action, they will provide passives when activated. All items can be activated alongside an action, but will expire after a single use. They will also be available to pass around.

By the way, want to see another inconsistency in Jeod's claims, that he can trade items with players and is a smuggler...

[Shade939]

Also, what's up with you're laser focus on me having a passive ability to role block players @ Jeod ?

We literally have Louis claiming a role blocker who targeted you and Category 5 has the ability to influence other players actions, and you're response is Shade must have role blocked me after I tried to pass an item to him that disappeared, if anything I'd assume you're trying to cover up that you used an item and visited me last night.

[Jeod]

8 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Also, what's up with you're laser focus on me having a passive ability to role block players @ Jeod ?

We literally have Louis claiming a role blocker who targeted you and Category 5 has the ability to influence other players actions, and you're response is Shade must have role blocked me after I tried to pass an item to him that disappeared, if anything I'd assume you're trying to cover up that you used an item and visited me last night.

So you're saying I wasn't jailed now? Is that what you're saying?

[Shade939]

2 minutes ago, Jeod said:

So you're saying I wasn't jailed now? Is that what you're saying?

Do you have a problem with that, because you really aren't paying attention if you think I'm the one who said that couldn't have happened?

[Jeod]

Feel free to outline your entire version of events so that I may poke several holes in it like the Swiss cheese it is.

[Shade939]

Just now, Jeod said:

Feel free to outline your entire version of events so that I may poke several holes in it like the Swiss cheese it is.

1. No NK happened.

2. Louis targeted you to roleblock you, her action was used.

3. Category 5, later claims that he swapped the roleblock targets, so Irish was role blocked instead.

4. You have a very convoluted story about your role and what you did.

 

[Shade939]

It's a lot simpler if you simply point 4 isn't it.

[Jeod]

Why wouldn’t I just say I wasn’t jailed off the bat?