OrangeP47

Okay, I was hoping there was maybe a way to check for fakes if that wasn't universal, or to detect if Mojo had slipped if he was scum and we really could just sit on the note somehow, hmm... What I recommenced, then, is handing the note to the person we can all agree on we trust *the most*. Someone we're all at least 95% sure isn't scum. Then, that same night, I'll meet with them and discuss how we can use it to find a Kira supporter. (This can't be ChopBam, because I can't discuss in private with him 'in time'). Again, discussing it publicly will likely mean it won't work. Now, I understand if you don't trust me, and that's a valid reason for everyone to reject my plan. I'd also understand if whoever we gave it to and then I contacted didn't want to follow through on the rest of the plan, as it's not a 100% sure fire thing. I like the odds, but that's me, and unfortunately again I can't discuss why I like the odds without blowing the lid off the entire idea, therefore negating it. As it stands, this is a long-game type deal, which does lower the chance of success of getting us the info we need, or could mean the info is outdated by the time we get it anyway. We could do it more efficiently by giving it directly to me, letting me do the next step, and saving us all a doc giving us more flexibility, but I know how absurd it would be to ask that. While I'll admit I was a bit forceful in questioning ChopBam and expressing my dislike of certain aspects of what was being proposed, I fully understand if there is disagreement with me here.

And for a bit more, this both factors into my calculations on trusting people, but also what I believe to be the best course of action varies based upon the answers too.

There are a few options. Though first I have a question that just struck me. When you got the note did it appear with the rule that if you just sit on it it gets plucked? I'd also like to hear what CK says on that. Was that rule also in effect for that death note as well? It may have been said before, but if so, it was all piecemeal. I'd like explicit confirmation from all parties of having had that rule with the item.

I would have been up for it, but figured they had something else going on. Most people are at least seeming to be honest with who they're contacting, which is good. While I'm not exactly fond of the current collusion, at the time I wasn't exactly feeling the need to try and impose myself upon them. To be fair, if I had contact with Mojo, that might have been the only avenue to share the trick that could have had that note lead us to Kira, but also to be fair I thought of the procedure very late during the night as well, after most of us had sorted ourselves into docs anyway most likely.

I'd laugh if Jeod got a note and it turns out to be the wrong one.

Let me elaborate real fast too @ChopBam: You said yourself that if the note goes missing, we just investigate the person who had it as now suspicious. I'm saying someone could wait to use the steal to focus all attention on that person wrongly on a turn when it's critical we go after a real Kira supporter if you are both town.

By throw under the bus I mean make look suspicious, not kill.

Well as I also said, I may not *like* your plan either By predictable I meant in the long run, however. Say two days for now the steal action is sprung on you while we're in the middle of some other heated controversy. Whoever has that action has had plenty of time to settle in to what you're doing and knows they have a specific way to mess with our heads at a critical moment. By plan for today, I meant simply that, plan for today. Playing it day by day by being public is a compromise between just asking us all to trust you and letting whoever has the steal action make a plan of their own. They can't bank on what's going down a day or two from now, but you're above board with your pro-town efforts. I just think it's a little much to basically be saying 'we got this one, don't worry guys'. Quoting the earlier part: I didn't pick up on that, and no, that doesn't mean I'm sitting here trying to steal it , just to me it didn't seem like Mojo laid out what his action was going to be at all yesterday, which 1) didn't sit well with me because it might have been an attempt to slip back under the radar once CK got focused on, but more importantly 2) means it might not have been as obvious as you thought. Following 2, that might mean whoever has the steal action either didn't notice, but I think the most likely thing is that it's a one-shot action and the person just doesn't want to take it right now. If it got stolen last night, we'd be in a bit of a tizzy, but we wouldn't be nearly as worked up as we would/will be a few days from now if they play the steal action as we're focusing on other intrigue.

You're forgetting possible steal actions as well, though. If it's a one shot they've probably been sitting on it and waiting for the right time. Now that you have that predictable plan they can use it to throw one of you two under the bus at their leisure.

You know... I actually seem to remember that conversation happening back in the day now. It's been a long time so I don't remember everything, obviously, but I do remember a time period when people were extraordinarily mad about mine layers and how they shouldn't even work in the first place.... nostalgia...

I enjoy how so bugs so absurd are even possible, heh. I appreciate the work that must go into hunting down things to fix that don't really make sense in the first place.

Heh, as usual, a lot happens while I sleep. I will admit, I'm not 100% trustful of ChopBam, but I'm not going to beat a dead horse (too much), so I'll only present the factors that haven't really been talked about. He has a note, we could confiscate it, BUT what I really want hear is what are his plans for it today? Passing it back and forth with Mojo? Passing it to someone tomorrow who we plan to investigate in advance to kill two birds with one stone? Something else? Having a plan, not necessarily a plan I'd agree with, but any plan, would go a long way to convincing me, not this endless cycle of "nope nope, bad idea" which doesn't have sufficient backing to really make me happy. On Mojo: Now that he doesn't have the note, he's going back to being suspicious for me. Very few interjections, and what he does say is again the slippery one-liners... I would have preferred to hear from him what his thoughts on the note pass were rather than letting choppy develop it so one sided after the fact of the pass. Why? Because there is a pretty obvious way to use the rules, as described by Mojo, to make a play that would out a Kira supporter. By explaining it, though, I'd also explain how to defeat it, so I won't elaborate on it. It's possible neither saw the opening though. On the subject of FRAYDO: If I was going to give him the fair and balanced treatment that I try and give everyone... I wouldn't really have a leg to stand on in his defense... He has some pretty weak protests here (hell, does he WANT to get investigated, playing like that? A joke... but maybe serious too... would delay us from real goals...). I wouldn't argue against voting FRAYDO on his own merits, but I do think it'd be a sideshow from the real action and distract us from the real meat of this mystery.

By and large a good comment. I work in politics, so I don't want to rerun the whole election debate again, when such debate is normally my job. The no fly zone absolutely wouldn't happen no matter who got elected President. As it stands, even without it, there was the Russia-Turkey incident which didn't blow up any larger, but also in effect killed off the idea entirely anyway even if it was feasible to begin with. On the DNC front, everyone has to remember, Bernie was an independent for the longest time and pretty much did just register as a dem to co-opt the base. I don't have anything against that, but I also think it's pretty understandable that the people who had been putting in grunt work running a massive organization are a little miffed that someone wants to come and just take it over from them, and I say that as someone who thinks DWS did a terrible, terrible job. A lot of other mistakes were made on the part of the Clinton campaign and dem leadership, but it really rubs me the wrong way whenever the people who only got involved in politics this cycle pack up their bags right away after not getting 100% of what they want when there are some of us who have been out here pounding the pavement, mostly through our own volunteer effort, for decade(s) and never quit whenever we hit obstacles. I'm overall disappointed in this cycle the most by the lack of policy substance. Granted, I always would be, as formulating policy specifics is something I'm specifically trained to do, but in the general there was no mention of Dodd-Frank, which Delta correctly identified as a very crucial piece of legislation. The Supreme Court issue played out very strangely, and is a tangled mess on so many levels... The whole 'well I didn't think he was actually going to do what he said he was' or 'I didn't think he meant ME' responses after the election.. I mean, on health care I have a vested interest too, because I was born disabled and for around 10 years after insurance dropped me back during the W era I couldn't get health coverage due to 'pre-existing conditions'. I'm currently in the position of having to rush through as much treatment before 2017 is up because there's a real chance the avenues the ACA opened to me are going to be slammed closed. I've had more than one friend have a meltdown after they expressed great joy that it's going to go away only for me to point out that it's pretty much the only way I'm going to retain my ability to walk

ChopBam claims to have it via controlled pass.

Nah, we'll get to Fallout levels where a gallon of gas costs 1500 proposal.

Inflation is a hell of a drug. I remember back in my day you could buy trust at the store for a mere 5 proposal AND still have some of your paycheck left over for a candy bar or two...

Well I wouldn't say obvious. I guess it's a possibility. Did he claim that role? If so I must have missed it.

Eh, well, forgive me, but that's kind of a strange statement. If you die before L, you lose? And yeah, I can understand not wanting to waste effort, but at best you've created an inner circle considering some of this information about you hasn't been shared with the rest of us (unless I missed it?), and I'm not 100% on all of those associates yet either. You've done generally pro-town things, but we've never really gotten anything solid on you.

*Reminder that I first postulated three Death Notes around 30 hours ago, because I'm a glutton for having more credit than I deserve.

Even if we keep Cat 5 under lock and key via trust mechanics, theoretically, someone could pass the note back and then we'd be in some real trouble...

I'll use my second post already, because with 100 trust if something super-big happens I'll take the suspicion hit All of my statements should of course be prefaced with "going by current information". I do expect the calculus will change somewhat with the morning post, one way or another. Investigating FRAYDO *might* be a waste, but by my current cost-benefit analysis it's the least waste. While earlier I said that having no reason to trust someone is not a valid reason to mistrust them, and the opposite case as well, the thing is, until we get further information, there just aren't too many good options. It's not that a D4 pick on FRAYDO as it stands is a good option, it's just the least bad option, mostly because picking Jeod is useless, for reasons I've stated a ton, Cat 5 is known, Nodlied is best not being revealed and has a lot more trust from me now after these very recent events, Choppy and Mojo seem fairly trustworthy, etc. You're still largely unknown FRAYDO, and at this stage, that's a rarity. @Cat 5. You may seem to be left out to dry, but I think you may still play a vital role. I have some half-formed ideas, but not enough information at the current time to form any coherent theories or propose any courses of action, though.

I still think he's shinigami, which doesn't change any of my reasoning. I still say FRAYDO is up next on the chopping block for investigation. If he's indeed task force, since he hasn't been playing a big role he's likely unimportant, and therefore has little to be aFRAYDO of

I can agree to voting FRAYDO next round, but this round's drama is just too much really to pass by.

*or other steal action, I guess.

If one is fake I still think we'd have 2 real ones, for game balance and the fact that offscreen Light would want in on things. Also I took believe there's a shinigami steal action, @ what Nodlied said up there.