Metaridley

I mean i like the standart C&C Mode but i always like to see maps with goals/targets that are different from the normal standart. It gives a game more fun and variety. Thats why i think IMO Tiberian Twilight and Rivals - despite their status in the fandom - would have interesting concepts for an FPS. I hope we see a Mobile HQ Mode and a Sole Survivor Style Mode in Ground Zero

Everytime a new W3D Game got announced, my excitement goes up to eleven. Especially the announcement of Ground Zero gave me hope seeing another classic C&C Game adapted into a 3D FPS Game (Renegade was a bit too futuristic to count as a convertion of Tiberian Dawn into an FPS Game). Over the years we saw different approaches of newer C&C Games adapted into the Renegade Style like Scud Storm for Generals or Tiberium Wars Mods like The Third Tiberium War or Tiberium Crystal Wars. We even saw a C&C 4 Map popping up over the years. But none of the mentioned Mods got far in development or had several design problems. After learning more about the Design of Renegade and several other W3D Mods i thought about concepts how to bring EA-Era C&C Titles like Generals, Tiberium Wars or Red Alert 3 into the First Person Perspective. Despite being a controversial or obscure title i wouldn't even cut out Total Convertions for Tiberian Twilight or Rivals. This is not a thread to ask if somebody will create Mod XYZ, more like my ideas for potential mods and whats your idea or opinion on them. I just starting 3D Modeling and a bit animation and far from it to be good to create my own W3D Game (but i still want to improve my skills!). And please don't judge me on my bad english skills! Design of the Bases: First of all - there should be no Base Building in these Mods. The Concept for Base Building in Renegade isn't bad, Scud Storm and other Renegade Mods show'd it's possible but its a big impact on the Map Design and depends on your team players. Many Maps would have to be flat for putting each building on the map and some players could mess up the base layout. Also it would be a pacing breaker if the team first has to build a base before they can start into combat. The only deployable buildings should be atleast bunkers or smaller defenses like in Interm Apex. As example Tiberium Wars GDI Infantry and RA3 Soviet Engineers would have the ability to deploy bunkers. Factions, Sub-Factions and different Generals: One of the problem of later C&C Games since RA2 Yuris Revenge (or we also could argue the problem exists since the Dune RTS Games) the existence of more than 2 factions in the games. Renegade atm only supports 2 factions per match so the only solution atm is to made it depending on the Map Setting (also a 3-4 Faction Map would be really hard to handle and it would be hard to get so much players on it because the engine got frame drops if 40-50 people are ingame). In the Generals Universe the USA and China fought together against the GLA so this is a lesser problem. In terms of Tiberium Wars, i would also throw the mutants from tiberium alliances into the mix because they had a solid foundation of units and buildings in the game. So this would be the constellation= Generals: USA vs GLA/ China vs GLA (USA vs China maybe only on a fun map or competitive map?) Tiberium Wars: GDI vs Nod (no brainer), GDI vs Scrin, Nod vs Scrin, GDI vs Mutants, Nod vs Mutans (because of the setting from Alliances) Red Alert 3: Allies vs Soviets (no brainer), Allies vs Empire, Soviets vs Empire For the Sub-Factions and different Generals i would handle it like this - throwing the exclusive units and other stuff into their main factions. This would solve the Infantry Problem in a Generals Mod, because Generals didn't had much infantry classes for just one side and so you don't necessary need to create new original classes. As example China would have basically 4 base units, adding the other generals exclusive ones in, they would get the Minigunner, Super Hacker and Super Lotus. Same for GLA, they would get Toxin and Stealth Units from the respective Generals. Also it should apply for Tiberium Wars and their respective sub factions from Kanes Wrath. Handling of the Support Powers, Upgrades and Team Promotions: Here starts to differentiate each game really heavily. But all games also would have something in common. They would have the advantage that upgrade systems already exists in mods like Interm Apex. In Generals all upgrades have to be researched by different buildings. Depending on the map which tech level and buildings are available it would be possible to limit the upgrade mania of generals. But basically all support powers are unlocked by general's promotions. The System should look like these = depending on the team score and performance, the team will get promotion points like in generals. So players can unlock the support powers and other upgrades via the purchase terminal and can also use them with it. Tiberium Wars is a whole different beast. There was no Promotion System for the player, all upgrades and powers are bound to their respective buildings. So it would be much more important to save certain buildings or the team will loose access to their unexplored upgrades and support powers. Also mappers could limit the upgrades and support powers, depending which buildings they put on the map. Red Alert 3 is again is complete own thing. Instead of relying on upgrades for units in different buildings, it only has a promotion system, similar to Generals. Of course we also have to talk about the super weapons of each game. Scud Storm, Nuke Missles, Ion Cannon, Rift Generator, Proton Collider, Vacuum Bomb, and the Psionic Wave would function as normal, just a beacon like weapon for mass destruction (1-MainBuilding Destroyer and damages main buildings nearby, destroying smaller weaker nearby buildings too) But we have also some specialized super weapons. The Particle Cannon also should work with a beacon but with a twist. If a player launched a Particle Cannon successful its also a 1-Main Building Destroyer. But if a second player stands on a purchase terminal at the own base, he can additional control it! So the Particle Cannon would be still strong for one player but encourages to handle it by another team member to maximize his destructive potential. The Renegade Mod Scud Storm solved the Super Weapon Problem with moving icons but the enemy team wouldn't had any chance to disarm/counter primary Super Weapons with that method. Same goes for Chronosphere, Iron Curtain and Nanoswarm Barrier. They would need some team member at a terminal to activate. Focus of each game: IMO a generals mod should have the arcarde infantry combat of APB and TSR, but should more focus on vehicle combat. Generals was a tank-dominated game so it would fit pretty well. Tiberium Wars would be more like balanced between infantry and vehicle combat, like APB and TSR. Also there would be a much bigger option for air combat because of 3 factions with air units. RA3 would open a new window for naval combat, because you could also have bases on the sea. Extra Stuff: - All Games should have the Unit Promotion System like in TSR or in AR. - For a Tiberium Wars Coop Defense Map it could be use a layout from the Tiberium Wars Mobile Game. So we also had a reference to that Game too. - To build on a solid foundation for these mods, i would use existing mods as a base. RA A Path Beyond would be perfect for a Generals Mod, Pipline is the perfect testing ground for GLA Units. Tiberium Wars should be use TSR 2.0 as a base and a Red Alert 3 Mod Apocalypse Rising because RA 2 and 3 are similar in certain mechanics. - A Red Alert 3 Mod could be got some sort of Prototype in Form of a RA Mobile Mod. IMO the part between YR and the Prologe Cutscene of RA3 is not well known and only the iOS Game covers it. Many units are function quite the same like their ra2 and 3 versions. - Why i am throwing Tiberium Alliances into the mix of Tiberium Wars and Kanes Wrath? Because 90% of the units and buildings are the same and have additional buildings that could be used greatly like MG Nests, Barbed Wire, Anti Tank Barrier and more. - Yes we should have epic units in a Tiberium Wars and RA3 Mod. I would like to drive a MARV, Reedemer, Hexapod, Shogun Executioner and a Giga Fortress. But they would need big maps to perform well. But we have the Mammoth MK2 in TSR so... - For a RA3 Mod the Ore Field and economy system would be a bit different. Each Side would have a refinery with a single Ore Mine in base and a AI Miner would drive/swim back to back. To give players the possibility to get additional ore they could go out and get ore from other ore mines. But it would mean we need additional Ore Refineries in the base. So maybe the outpost units could be reworked into sort-of smol refinery versions. Also they would have a purpose in the renegade gameplay. - To create the models, imo i would use the models from the respective games first and would use them as place holder. As a 3D Artist i would then improve on these models until they are different enough not be a copyright problem. The biggest problem would be to create animations for the Scrin and the Empire. Scrin Units are mostly organic and Empire Vehicles have alot of transformation animations. And for the last part many people will hate me. But i would also like to see Renegade Mods for Tiberian Twilight and Rivals. There was a C&C 4 Map for Renegade created and sort of worked. A full mod like these would create a "Capture the flag" Gamemode, but base mode would also possible. Each Crawler would function as a Production Building and there are also certain types of base defenses in Tib. Twilight. And instead of getting tiberium for credits players would collect tiberium crystals for upgrades and crates for upgrading their units. Rivals on the other hand would be more like a quick match-type of game with smaller maps. All in all nearly all of these ideas for future W3D Games for C&C Games are possible with all their mechanics. Sadly certain games couldn't get converted to the W3D Engine because of copyright reasons. Imagine LotR Battle for Middle Earth 1+2 in Renegade, Generals 2 for obvious canceled reasons, Star Wars Empire at War etc. I even had an idea for a Metroid Version of Renegade but Nintendo would DMCA that immediately.

what about a garrisonable allied turret, the one from the cut content of RA2? it would be a mirror to the bunker and would be effective against vehicles

oh i like the idea that battle bunkers from the soviets could be implemented. what about the garrison function for buildings? also if soviets get a third ground defense, is there a chance for the allies to bring back cut/beta content like the RA2 Turret?

@ice187dna for being a hilarious demo truck driver @TeamWolf for this crazy below 10 min rush on KoTG @forg0ten1 for his confused questions in discord "which team is this now?" on Zama

I am not even finished with my Renegade 19th Week Video Cuts, why you do this to me!? But tbh i am excited for it!

Are these Signal Flares for the old Nuke ones or for entirely new things (sec. SW, Powers like ParaBombs etc.) imo Chronosphere and IC should be used through a terminal like in AR because they are Powers that need a selected unit.

Again @AZ-Stalker for the birth of the Baba Yaga Vodka Squadron with Yaks and LST's!

It's just one of my weird instant reacting moves to defend the base, like back in the day, when the demo didn't had the "friendly fire" feature, i killed a bunch of invading Soviets in our refinery on camos canyon with my demo base defense move

I nominate @AZ-Stalkerfor such fun matches, especially at the last hours. it was so much fun

In RA1 it was classified as a building. The Larvas could be a object to destroy OOOOOORRRRRRRRR if you want a map where one side play purely ants, thats basically the Purchase Terminal for ants. i noticed myself thats a bit unfair but you could do it like in Apocalypse Rising. The Dog noticed the Spy only in a range of 15-20m and then the spy got a "!" over his head. But i had the "Bark" idea for the Chat so dog players can't purely communicate with other players but can warn them if something is wrong in the base.

To revive that topic i had some time to overthink some aspects. Since i learned (and still learning) stuff in 3DSMax, some buildings and units are definitly possible. I made a prototype of the Helicarrier in 3DSMax and for a first attempt i am pretty proud. I will not show it just in case my work will be accepted. I also tried a Camo PB in 3DSMax and it became really flat. That might be an issue for hit detection. To balance this out the CPB should have a bigger damage detection box to be more vunerable to splash damage from V2s, Grenades and Rockets. To balance out the spies and doggo roles i had this in mind. Both units are relying on certain buildings. It's like the minelayers and service depots, if the SD is destroyed the mine layer is basically useless. Kill the weak-armored Kennel, dogs are gone. If APB introduce Powers, the Spy will get an even more important role, he has to infiltrate soviet buildings to make Parabombs and Sonar available, if the tech center is gone his infiltration usage is cutted down to the standart ones. Also i had a new idea about Chitzkoi. After i read some stuff in the C&C Wikia i stumble on Megan, the cutted unit and partner for Tanya. What if we design a Commando Team for each side. Volkov is primary a Tank Killer and secondary a infantry and building destroyer. Chitzkoi is the fast Infantry killer but can't do shit at buildings and vehicles and a much more powerful version of the standart Dog. Tanya is a Building and Infantry Slayer but useless against vehicles. Megan is described in the Wiki as a red-haired stealthy demolitionist and partner of Tanya. She could be the Tank Destroyer with C4 of the two and semi-good against infantry. So this would be also make much more sense because Red Alert 2 later fused some roles of RA1 units into one (Helicarrier and Cruiser in RA1 became the Helicarrier of RA2, Tanya and Mega from RA1 became Tanya from RA2 (she kills Infantry like flies and can also destroy buildings and tanks), spy and thief roles became on in RA2's Spy and so on) For Powers i would differentiate the Spy Plane from the GPS Satellite. The Sattelite need 12-15 Minutes to be shot into space and got for the rest of the round always access to the battlefield and the spy plane will reveal all units for 30-60 seconds on the map and is usable after a couple of minutes again. Just for the commando post - i discover the allies also had one, but it was cutscene exclusive. Still should be for mission-like maps. For the passive defenses (Sandbags (Allies) and Barbed Wire (Soviets) (and Chain Link Fence): i animated destruction animations for them so it should be not hard to bring them in aside being pure map assets. Role of them is to block light infantry and vehicles with Machine Guns, so rushes have to bring atleast one unit with tank shells, rockets or grenades to the party to get rid of them. Also played around with the idea of the APP in 3DSMax and yes it would work and wouldn't take that much more space.

Nah, don't make it like a defense building. But not all is wrong with your argument. Unlike AR where dogs weakspot is the enitre barrack building in APB it's just the Kennel. Get rid of the weak armored kennel and dogs are no more.Why people targeting Service Depots? To get rid of annoying mines. Simple as that. Dogs aren't op in APB, there op in AR because their weakspot building is much better armored. The best way to test the dog and kennel things is just to test them how they work in APB Test matches. Back in the day the Cruiser was impossible to implement and now it's just 3x artillery on water but it get destroyed by hinds, migs, subs and especially V2s... honestly if W3D Hub will make more renegade mods, i guess not even matches with 3 factions or even epic units from kanes wrath, red alert 3 or the cabal core defender are impossible...

Another thing why people think dogs are too op in APB is, it's a one shot infantry killer and thats true and the spy will not have a chance. But the reality is that dogs have enough down sides. Besides the fact dogs can see enemy spies super easy, they are the counter to the allies op infantry force. Alone the fact Medics and Mechanics can heal the allied forces everywhere (except on the big sea) is op as fuck. Dogs are not only the counter to spies also to the other unique allied infantry, even Tanya. They attack with a near-close jump (2-3m) and kill players in a instant. Dogs are fast and deadly and are a defend- and support class on the battlefield to get rid of the heal-class infantry. But for attacking a enemy base there are basically useless, they don't damage buildings or vehicles. Also their negative aspect is dogs have no armor and don't have much health, easy to kill. But doggos are fast runners to dodge attacks. The other downside of dogs is the kennel.The Kennel is a weak armored building thats easy to kill, one good rpg player kill that thing solo and dogs are gone. Also they can't counter more than 1 infantry player. If the dog kills a player, they have a cooldown of 1-2 seconds and can't move (because of the bite animation) and are a easy prey for other players. And despite the spy will get even more value with tech centres (infiltrating the air field gives allies a one time parabomb strike and in subpen the sonar signal) dogs are necessary. Imo Spy is already a pretty op unit in terms of use, much more than thiefs. And if you want to make spies even more powerful, give them a anti-dog spray to stun dogs for a couple of seconds and don't change the team player count so nobody will notice that a spy is in the Soviet team. oh and another note, should dogs able to communicate in the chat? the only thing that dogs should say in the chat and the commando keys should be WOOF! xD