Yuri in Apoc Rising

[Meyerm]

This is for the unit and the faction. Now, I know the faction will not be in the game as a normal faction, that's been made clear. I'll get to that in a moment. What I am unclear on is the soviet Yuri unit/psicorps trooper. the FAQ on moddb says the unit will be in the game. However, a dev (forget who) said about a year ago in a match the unit and mind control as a whole won't be present. Which is it, and how will the unit work in-game if it is in?

 

As for the army, It's perfectly understandable they won't be a full faction. However, What about special Co-op matches or crate drops (virus sniper rifle anyone?)? Some of the relatively "easy" Yuri stuff like gatling guns, initiates, non-functional base structures, and maybe even their own engineers/technicians, while leaving the difficult stuff like psychic towers and chaos tech out of the equation. That way, you can still have Yuri without a need for balancing and coding the hard abilities his forces possess.

 

Keep in mind I'm just thorwing out ideas. No one's demanding this be done. Sometimes I get yelled at for far-fetched ideas, hehe.

 

[Einstein]

Keep in mind I'm just thorwing out ideas. No one's demanding this be done. Sometimes I get yelled at for far-fetched ideas, hehe.

 

I can not answer your questions about the game, as that is for the devs. But it sounds like you and I are close at heart. I share the same fear of being put down for my often strange or only-makes-sense-to-me ideas. But what I have found so far around here is that everyone is open to input as long as it is given in a civil fashion. And you don't exactly strike me as rude Input is a thing that we enjoy having and encourage here! Keep it coming!

[DeviousDave]

It could potentially be done like the mutants in TSR, in that the Yuri faction is a NPC threat that randomly spawns on some maps to attack both sides.

 

And keep throwing out ideas, we like ideas around here and god knows i've suggested some stupid c++p in the past here which has actually been discussed without people jumping up and down on me (Stomping shock wave attack for the Mammoth Mk2 springs to mind) Everyone here is usually rather nice and civilised... unlike some other forums I know of.

[moonsense715]

It could potentially be done like the mutants in TSR, in that the Yuri faction is a NPC threat that randomly spawns on some maps to attack both sides.

That's actually not a bad idea.

There could be maps where Yuri's forces guard something (a superweapon, a gattling cannon, etc.) that keeps actively attacking both sides. It would then be a mini goal ingame for BOTH sides to get rid of them

 

Or a mission map where both sides need to get the same thing from Yuri's forces.

[Shnappz]

I really like that as an idea... having mini goal's would make it a lot of fun! Would add a whole new dimension to the game play...

[Einstein]

I really like that as an idea... having mini goal's would make it a lot of fun! Would add a whole new dimension to the game play...

 

Absolutely! I like moonsense715's idea about them guarding something and actively attacking. The objective could be to destroy a cloning vat to stop their spawning, etc. Good thoughts & discussion here!

[Killing_You]

Maybe even have abandoned Yuri structures that grant access to Yuri tech if you captured them?

[Meyerm]

Hmm.... Allies and Soviets fighting eachother for something Yuri's forces have. I like it. Or perhaps some coop map like I've seen on APB and other unaffliated conversions. One faction against a Yuri base protected by bots. Anything that can include Yuri's army in Apoc Rising that wouldn't entail the nigh-impossible task of adding everything in Yuri's arsenal and making it balanced for a standard map.

[Shnappz]

Hmm.... Allies and Soviets fighting eachother for something Yuri's forces have. I like it. Or perhaps some coop map like I've seen on APB and other unaffliated conversions. One faction against a Yuri base protected by bots. Anything that can include Yuri's army in Apoc Rising that wouldn't entail the nigh-impossible task of adding everything in Yuri's arsenal and making it balanced for a standard map.

 

Love the idea of Co-op maps as well.. An "Unholy Alliance"!

[Einstein]

Love the idea of Co-op maps as well.. An "Unholy Alliance"!

 

Well in the past, it was just one side against the other but the players all get teamed on one side and the AI are all on the other (as far as i know anyway, someone more knowledgeable feel free to jump in here). What i think we're talking about here is having allies and soviets on the same "faction" as far as the engine knows, with structures and units from both, all fighting against the Yuri AI. That about right?

 

If this were possible, it would be awesome but i'm not sure it can be done and still maintain the Allied and Soviet faction identities. I've seen some topics similar to this about having 3 factions and i think that poses some difficulty for the engine. But if say....all the units and structures could be crammed (h4x0r3d) into one "faction" (allies for example) for a special co-op or rather collaboration mission against the other Yuri AI faction (soviet), im sure it would be extremely popular and work well too! Assuming all the stuff can be crammed together like that

[Shnappz]

Yeah I encountered this when I was researching (asking lots of questions) about making a generals mod.

 

I guess the allies & soviets could just promise not to shoot each other

 

Kinda reminds me of skirmishes on ra1, if ever you allied with one of the AI's they'd take the odd pot shot at troops.

[Einstein]

I guess the allies & soviets could just promise not to shoot each other

 

Well they would be on the same "team" as far as the game knows. It would just be a...superteam i guess is the word. It would just have all units from both sides. Friendly fire would protect against that because its all on the same side, just not the way we see it. Tell me if im making sense....

[moonsense715]

 

I guess the allies & soviets could just promise not to shoot each other

Well they would be on the same "team" as far as the game knows. It would just be a...superteam i guess is the word. It would just have all units from both sides. Friendly fire would protect against that because its all on the same side, just not the way we see it. Tell me if im making sense....

 

I understand it

I can't think of a way to have 2 war factories building different units though. Not on the same team.

[Meyerm]

I was thinking it just be one faction, with the other playing the role of "Yuri." If you want to invest in both arsenals though, I wouldn't be opposed.

[DeviousDave]

 

 

I guess the allies & soviets could just promise not to shoot each other

Well they would be on the same "team" as far as the game knows. It would just be a...superteam i guess is the word. It would just have all units from both sides. Friendly fire would protect against that because its all on the same side, just not the way we see it. Tell me if im making sense....

 

I understand it

I can't think of a way to have 2 war factories building different units though. Not on the same team.

 

 

You could just have a mixture of both factions buildings, eg. Allies WF , Soviet Barracks, Allied PP, Soviet Refinery, Allied ground defense turret, Soviet AA turret etc.

 

make the area around the base quite small and it would give the impression that both commanders had only limited room to work with when setting up the base so couldn't set up multiples of the same structure (eg. Allied WF and Soviet WF)

[Einstein]

You could just have a mixture of both factions buildings, eg. Allies War Factory , Soviet Barracks, Allied PP, Soviet Refinery, Allied ground defense turret, Soviet AA turret etc.

 

make the area around the base quite small and it would give the impression that both commanders had only limited room to work with when setting up the base so couldn't set up multiples of the same structure (eg. Allied War Factory and Soviet War Factory)

 

That sounds cool!

"Unholy Alliance"

 

And it seems Shnappz has already given it a name...

[moonsense715]

 

"Unholy Alliance"

And it seems Shnappz has already given it a name...

 

Someone needs to play more RA2

Unholy Alliance mode in RA2 meant you started with both an Allied and a Soviet MCV.

[Einstein]

 

 

"Unholy Alliance"

And it seems Shnappz has already given it a name...

 

Someone needs to play more RA2

Unholy Alliance mode in RA2 meant you started with both an Allied and a Soviet MCV.

 

 

Woah how did i not know that? I gotta check that out....

[Shnappz]

Darn, I was hoping to be able to claim that bit of creative genuis.

Moons right though, I got it from ra2

Edited April 1, 2015 by Shnappz

[OWA]

Me and cfehunter were talking about Yuri recently.

 

Our original idea was to change the Chrono Legionnaire logic so that Yuri can hold his enemies in place with his primary attack. During this time he is vulnerable to any other enemies attacking them. Once he has held the enemy in place for long enough, the script would "kill" the player and spawn an identical bot in their place.

 

The player could then hit Q or a similar key to switch control between the controlled unit and the Yuri character. This is so that the Yuri could go and hide, whilst the captured unit could fight in his place. If Yuri is to die, the unit switches sides again and the Allies get a bot to fight for them!

 

Another idea we were having was the possibility of having Yuri simply have a side area attack that screws with player's controls and makes them shoot their allies within an area.

 

There's a few possibilities to explore.

[Meyerm]

I like the first one where a bot's made that can be switched to and from. I'm guessing the bot would die if the Yuri controller dies?

 

Does that mean the Yuri unit is still work in progress, not abandoned? Conflicting sources make it unclear if the unit's still a planned addition.

[Shnappz]

I like both ideas OWA... It'd be hard to pick between them without seeing how either options play.

[Meyerm]

So since you seem to have mind control logic figured out, or at least getting there, Yuri clones could be added to the Yuri army maps too, though not sure how well Yuri clone bots would work. My thought was you would abandon attempting mind control and have Yuri be a purely anti-infantry aoe attacker with the psi blast, or just decided to abandon the unit all together.

[OWA]

I like the first one where a bot's made that can be switched to and from. I'm guessing the bot would die if the Yuri controller dies?

 

Does that mean the Yuri unit is still work in progress, not abandoned? Conflicting sources make it unclear if the unit's still a planned addition.

The bot would switch sides again and fight for the Allies if Yuri died.

 

Yuri is still very much in our plans for AR.

[Killing_You]

I see this being abused by the Allies for bot spam...

[Meyerm]

I see this being abused by the Allies for bot spam...

Then the soviets would have to be very careful about using Yuri, unless you're talking about the bot matches against Yuri's army.

 

Either way, Allied players might camp the Yuri while he's taking control too to get a free bot. I like killing the bot when the Yuri clone is killed better, either that or turning the mind control weapon into a "terminate controlled unit" button after control's achieved. Kind of like how C4 works.

 

Since it might be hard to keep the bot alive while you're getting the clone to safety (since I assume the bot would just blindly charge the enemy like bots on Reborn and APB), would it possible to use some kind of chat command or something to force the bot to follow the controller if you don't want it to attack right away?

Edited April 3, 2015 by Meyerm

[Einstein]

force the bot to follow the controller if you don't want it to attack right away?

 

That would be nice, I like that. Or just have it do this automagically anyways.

[moonsense715]

 

force the bot to follow the controller if you don't want it to attack right away?

That would be nice, I like that. Or just have it do this automagically anyways.

 

Or make its behaviour change on button press. Agressive, defensive, follow me, stand still. Other than that, you can also switch to it to do sophisticated control.

[Meyerm]

SInce the player can switch to control the bot manually, I think all that would be necessary would be follow the controlling clone, aggressive (attack nearest enemy), and guard (stand in position and attack any that get in range). The bots are really just cannon fodder, and for the guard mode, early detection (place it at a base entrance on guard, would be ntofied if it enters combat or gets killed).

[Jerad2142]

The player could then hit Q or a similar key to switch control between the controlled unit and the Yuri character. This is so that the Yuri could go and hide, whilst the captured unit could fight in his place. If Yuri is to die, the unit switches sides again and the Allies get a bot to fight for them!

I like this idea, it makes it possible for the player to make full use of mind controlled units that the AI might not be smart enough to use effectively.

Although, I think it might be a good idea to make it so that after a mind controlled unit is released it can't be recaptured, as I could see the allies using bots to just flood the mind control devices on the map.