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A public request for feedback on infantry balancing

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Hey everyone. Recently infantry-only maps were removed from the rotation. This is planned to be a temporary fix, but we would like public feedback on what needs fixing. I'm going to post the points already done regarding infantry balance, and a few future plans, but more feedback may be necessary:

Cyborg:
Split health and armor. Armor does not heal in tiberium
 
Disk Thrower:
Now explodes on death
Now more effective against cyborgs
Damage increased from 50 to 66.5 (Elite from 55 to 70)
Damage Radius increased from 4.5 to 7.0 (elite from 5.5 to 8.0)
Spray Angle (Inaccuracy) increased from 0 to .5 (alternate fire from 0 to 4.5)
 
Medic:
Removed instant healing (now heals over time)
Doubled health regen
Can no longer heal other medics
 
Pistols now have inaccuracy and recieved a -1 damage nerf

Elite confessors now have their original ammo as a secondary fire

Hijacker limit changed from 2 to 5

EMP mines can now be refilled
 
 
Future plans:
Add more interesting infantry maps from the infantry beta fan map pool (C&C_Pipeline is one such map)
Add enforcer unit to GDI
Add a new CTF mode for certain infantry maps (maybe vehicles, but only infantry planned for now)



Please post anything else you want to see changed/added or any concerns about these changes.

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Jumpjet Infantry:

Range to be adjusted to reasonable levels (or maps flight ceiling to be configured properly so JJ's don't go to ridiculous levels and still outrange everything, Grandcanyon for example)

 

Medic:

No longer able to restore armour (?) although the with changes you specified, it may not be necessary.

 

Confessor:

Elite perk, whilst cool that it turns into a continous laser, is quite terrible. I noticed that it deals no damage (or very little) during the first few hits and it's very weak otherwise. Better off using a regular/veteran one.

 

Elite Cadre & Officer:

A very minor complaint but please change/restore the grenade ejection sound, it sounds like I'm opening a party popper and I can't take it seriously.

Remove Binoculars as it stands they're quite useless and more suited to scouting units such as the Jumpjet. Plus it's easier for new players to get accustomed to these units without being overwhemled by options.

I noticed the main weapon changes were reverted, why was that?

 

Mutant Hijacker:

Restoration of tiberium based weapon, it kind of makes no sense as to why it was removed as he completely sucks in self-defence. I would suggest at veterancy but I've never seen a Veteran/Elite Hijacker...

 

A rework to a majority of veterancy perks, particularly Elite as it currently stands, are very generic.

 

That's all I got for the moment.

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You know what would be cool on the infantry only maps, if a couple of AI controlled Wolverines and Reapers spawned and charged each other every so often. Kinda making feel like a bigger battle was going on.

 

And Tiberium lifeforms guarding the tib field in the middle of the map.

 

I had a fun idea for the mutant hijacker although I doubt it would be doable, what if he was given a hook-shot or grappling hook, that allowed him to rapidly pull himself closer to any vehicles he targeted within a certain range.

 

Another fun idea was to give him (at Elite status) a short duration EMP version of Umagons anti vehicle remote sticky charges allowing him to temporarily disable GDI armored units.

Edited by DeviousDave

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You know what would be cool on the infantry only maps, if a couple of AI controlled Wolverines and Reapers spawned and charged each other every so often. Kinda making feel like a bigger battle was going on.

 

And Tiberium lifeforms guarding the tib field in the middle of the map.

 

I had a fun idea for the mutant hijacker although I doubt it would be doable, what if he was given a hook-shot or grappling hook, that allowed him to rapidly pull himself closer to any vehicles he targeted within a certain range.

 

Another fun idea was to give him (at Elite status) a short duration EMP version of Umagons anti vehicle remote sticky charges allowing him to temporarily disable GDI armored units.

AI is usually bad, though in AR we have a map which is just this.

 

 

Probably not

 

Not sure if that is a good idea. Certainly interesting, but why would you hijack an EMPed vehicle? So you can go die in it? His crowbar can also only hijack one vehicle, which makes this useless since when you are elite, you probably already hijacked a vehicle.

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Maybe you're cutting down Cyborgs too much there? I know they've always been kind of the odd one out when it comes to balance, but still. Maybe cut it by a third for a start, and see where that goes.

Ditto on removal of binocs for Officer/Cadre. It just bothers me sometimes when I need to use my secondary weapon. Maybe have it set to a Q alternate? idunno.

 

Disk sounds cool. Pistol nerf, not so much ;_;

 

Also, we should probably test the reported Confessor damage thing.

 

Also, please fix the veterancy check script. Please. Whoever's job that is.

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I think cyborg's accuracy should be nerfed considerably. Right now it seems like there's no escaping once they've got you targeted, even if it's from a very long distance away. Also the arm cannon's damage is pretty obscene...an elite borg that gets in range of a Tiberium Silo results in a dead silo very quickly...and it seems remarkably effective at one-shotting infantry as well.

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Confessor:

Elite perk, whilst cool that it turns into a continous laser, is quite terrible. I noticed that it deals no damage (or very little) during the first few hits and it's very weak otherwise. Better off using a regular/veteran one.

Did some math on this one. Let's look at Damage:

 

Normal weapon:

Hit damage: 14

Splash damage: 10

Total damage: 24

Rate of fire: 4 per second

Damage per second: 96

 

Beam weapon

Hit damage: 8

Splash damage: 12.5

Total damage: 20.5

Rate of fire: 10 per second

Damage per second: 205

 

Oh wait... the beam weapon hit damage is set to "rocket" instead of "laser". This might ahve something to do with the discrepency.

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Woah, that's more than double. Probably overkill. I'd say knock it down, BUT let's play around with it, actually.

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You know what would be cool on the infantry only maps, if a couple of AI controlled Wolverines and Reapers spawned and charged each other every so often. Kinda making feel like a bigger battle was going on.

 

And Tiberium lifeforms guarding the tib field in the middle of the map.

 

I had a fun idea for the mutant hijacker although I doubt it would be doable, what if he was given a hook-shot or grappling hook, that allowed him to rapidly pull himself closer to any vehicles he targeted within a certain range.

 

Another fun idea was to give him (at Elite status) a short duration EMP version of Umagons anti vehicle remote sticky charges allowing him to temporarily disable GDI armored units.

 

Not sure if that is a good idea. Certainly interesting, but why would you hijack an EMPed vehicle? So you can go die in it? His crowbar can also only hijack one vehicle, which makes this useless since when you are elite, you probably already hijacked a vehicle.

 

 

Ahhh, I see I didn't explain it well enough, my bad :saddowns:

 

The charge would only last, let's say 6 seconds and could be used to halt a target vehicle for easier hijacking, by the time you swing the crowbar (and the game decides to register the crowbar hit) the vehicle would almost be ready to move again.

 

give the charge a decent blast radius and it could also be used to help counter AAPC rushes (slap it on the ground or on a gate and detonate when the AAPC passes close by)

 

And yeah, Elite status is probably too much, maybe just add it to the original loadout.

Edited by DeviousDave

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I'm no wizard when it comes to code... does that mean the Elite Confessor is actually *supposed* to be good or what? As I said, firing a few shots deals no damage because it seems you have to focus fire for a few seconds before the damage kicks in?

 

As for the Cyborgs, I agree that there's a gross exaggeration going on with them, considering they're meant to be specialised is what makes them highly sought after. Let's not over nerf them to the point they are useless. Mines keep Cyborgs away from bases and areas of interest which people don't really utilise anymore. If Cyborgs are a problem then maybe raise the price a bit if need be.

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I've played around with them. When they are away from a tiberium field, they die easily. But when they are in a tiberium field, they become harder to kill. Due to a bug I do not understand, they have also have a REALLY powerful armour buff on veterancy that grants them armour that doubles their health. My change serves to fix these two bugs.

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Cyborg:
Split health and armor. Armor does not heal in tiberium
 
Chameleon spy Knife now has a .5 second chargeup
 
Pistols are no longer hitscan and now have inaccuracy

xqliQZN.gif

 

  1. No, just no. This means cyborg level 1 veterancy means nothing - he will lose all 50 armor he gets and will then sit on his ass with no benefits whatsoever. Just give him additional 50 health instead of additional 50 armor. Otherwise it's a good change. [edit]
  2. APB tried charge-ups. Everyone hates them. They never work. NEVER.
  3. APB and AR tried that. As above - everyone hated it. I spent MONTHS trying to convince developers to reverse that change. I don't intend on doing it again.

Otherwise it's ok.

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I agree on Voes points. Cyborg should only have helath buff on veterancy level. And the pistols damage should just get a slightly decrease.

 

How about adding emp grenades for the riot trooper. EMP grenades drastically slow down cyborgs and vehicles when hit. After 20 seconds the effect ends

Edited by Timeaua

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Cyborgs - classic need be slowest reduce move speed(not tu much)(this will able more easily aim for GDI) because they have heavy metal on self and they are much heavy.And they need accuracy(they really need accuracy nerf) like officier on Arm gattlng with regen im sure with you Gene.on Vet they need really reduced damage on buildings with cannon (i play very loot with cyborgs) and need nerf regen

 

Rocket Trooper - please add pistol

 

Disc Thower - please add pistol buffs ok

 

Umagon - C4 please add splash damage and damage vs cyborgs

 

Engineer - dont have on Elite rank weapon for repair vehicles - tested Nod engineer

 

Pistol Nod/GDI - 1 damage vehicles please now have 0 damage

 

Can you add granades for classic Infantry with small damage but good vs vehicles its really boring killing vehicles with rifles only

 

Idea - Conffesors can you add AT Mines ? GDI have Emp Mines why Nod have nothing? AT mines will be good vs GDI rushes,and when GDI destroy Nod War Factory

Edited by RimtechCZ

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1. The cyborg and Riot trooper relatioonship is messed up . The Riot trooper seems at first glance the best counter to cyborgs but in real life they suck . This should be changed enonomics of the characters need to be changed as at the moment the cyborg is the better unit in cost and preformence . This needs should be changed so that GDI can place it's EMP mines down earlier to help counter cyborgs or atleast make them equal cost .

If you made cyborg cost more than Riot trooper this would allow GDI to place mines out sooner to help counter cyborgs at their base however in smaller maps such as beachfront this can be highly unbalanced as cyborgs would become useless as a massive mine feild would be present by the time Nod gets them .

So I sujest you make them equal price to niether team is directly advantaged . The davantage goes to the team to can capatalize on these infantry tiypes earlier , which sould make the game play more interesting .

 

2. Umagon's weapon needs balancing / fixing so at the moment her rifel to too powerful as if you spam click it becomes automatic . I sugest reducing clip size to 7 , reduce attack speed but increase damage .

 

3. CC needs a buff the is no where near as good as GS as good Gs player always wins where as a CC should win . I say reduce the attack speed and increase damage , give it a large area of effect explosion , reduced velocity . So it resembles TSR more .

 

4. Increase the health of the hijacker as he is useless at everything but stelling vechiles . Give him a stealth cloak like the spy but it only lasts 7 or 9 second at a time to he can be more seaky and a more fun character to play as . Tiberium Uzi pls if you removed it haven't played as one in a long time because he's useless . :p

 

5. Idea not realy a sugestion , give the spy a device that he can throw on vechiles to reveal them to all nod force without being destealthed .

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Medic shouldn't be changed, he's fine the way he is. Not being able to heal other medics is going to hamper teamwork between medics and make him worse. The only thing the medic needs is better self healing, which sucks even when fully promoted. Also when someone is getting healed can we have a bunch of Healing crosses around them.

 

Basic Light infantry shouldn't be allowed to damage MK:II (This mostly applies to Nod) We're talking about a Super Heavy Armored walker. The bullets probably wouldn't be able to penetrate it. And it prevents people from spamming light infantry to prevent the self healing from kicking into effect.

 

- Cyborgs need nerfing, Then again if Disk throwers are getting buffed then i don't see them being as huge of a problem, because right now GDI have no counter to them.

 

- Pistol feels too strong right now, Rather then making it not Hit scan just Nerf the damn thing already.

 

Riot Trooper mine limit should be per person not the entire team. There's been so many occasions where i needed a EMP mine and i couldn't because all of the mines were already placed by someone in front of a gate. I'd Rather have it so each person can deploy 3 mines each. And the mine limit be tied to each person.

Edited by Bayonetta

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Cyborgs - classic need be slowest reduce move speed(not tu much)(this will able more easily aim for GDI) because they have heavy metal on self and they are much heavy.And they need accuracy(they really need accuracy nerf) like officier on Arm gattlng with regen im sure with you Gene.on Vet they need really reduced damage on buildings with cannon (i play very loot with cyborgs) and need nerf regen

 

Rocket Trooper - please add pistol

 

Disc Thower - please add pistol buffs ok

 

Umagon - C4 please add splash damage and damage vs cyborgs

 

Engineer - dont have on Elite rank weapon for repair vehicles - tested Nod engineer

 

Pistol Nod/GDI - 1 damage vehicles please now have 0 damage

 

Can you add granades for classic Infantry with small damage but good vs vehicles its really boring killing vehicles with rifles only

 

Idea - Conffesors can you add AT Mines ? GDI have Emp Mines why Nod have nothing? AT mines will be good vs GDI rushes,and when GDI destroy Nod War Factory

  1. Accuracy nerf could work wonders. Not convinced/don't know that much about the other points.
  2. Rocket trooper is ok for 200 money.
  3. Again, unit proportional to its price.
  4. Good idea.
  5. Can't comment.
  6. Little damage against vehicles wouldn't hurt.
  7. I don't know. Cadre does that and is op.
  8. Nod has stealth and underground, GDI has mines and jumpjets. I think it's fair balance-wise.

 

1. The cyborg and Riot trooper relatioonship is messed up . The Riot trooper seems at first glance the best counter to cyborgs but in real life they suck . This should be changed enonomics of the characters need to be changed as at the moment the cyborg is the better unit in cost and preformence . This needs should be changed so that GDI can place it's EMP mines down earlier to help counter cyborgs or atleast make them equal cost .

If you made cyborg cost more than Riot trooper this would allow GDI to place mines out sooner to help counter cyborgs at their base however in smaller maps such as beachfront this can be highly unbalanced as cyborgs would become useless as a massive mine feild would be present by the time Nod gets them .

So I sujest you make them equal price to niether team is directly advantaged . The davantage goes to the team to can capatalize on these infantry tiypes earlier , which sould make the game play more interesting .

 

2. Umagon's weapon needs balancing / fixing so at the moment her rifel to too powerful as if you spam click it becomes automatic . I sugest reducing clip size to 7 , reduce attack speed but increase damage .

 

3. CC needs a buff the is no where near as good as GS as good Gs player always wins where as a CC should win . I say reduce the attack speed and increase damage , give it a large area of effect explosion , reduced velocity . So it resembles TSR more .

 

4. Increase the health of the hijacker as he is useless at everything but stelling vechiles . Give him a stealth cloak like the spy but it only lasts 7 or 9 second at a time to he can be more seaky and a more fun character to play as . Tiberium Uzi pls if you removed it haven't played as one in a long time because he's useless . :p

 

5. Idea not realy a sugestion , give the spy a device that he can throw on vechiles to reveal them to all Nod force without being destealthed .

  1. I address a similar point in the next paragraph.
  2. Umagon is strong, as she should be. She's designated anti-infantry. Her full vet may be a little too strong, I admit.
  3. CC already had a RoF decrease. I suggest pumping it back up a little.
  4. I'm okay with this.
  5. ???

 

Medic shouldn't be changed, he's fine the way he is. Not being able to heal other medics is going to hamper teamwork between medics and make him worse. The only thing the medic needs is better self healing, which sucks even when fully promoted. Also when someone is getting healed can we have a bunch of Healing crosses around them.

 

Basic Light infantry shouldn't be allowed to damage MK:II (This mostly applies to Nod) We're talking about a Super Heavy Armored walker. The bullets probably wouldn't be able to penetrate it. And it prevents people from spamming light infantry to prevent the self healing from kicking into effect.

 

- Cyborgs need nerfing, Then again if Disk throwers are getting buffed then i don't see them being as huge of a problem, because right now GDI have no counter to them.

 

- Pistol feels too strong right now, Rather then making it not Hit scan just Nerf the damn thing already.

 

Riot Trooper mine limit should be per person not the entire team. There's been so many occasions where i needed a EMP mine and i couldn't because all of the mines were already placed by someone in front of a gate. I'd Rather have it so each person can deploy 3 mines each. And the mine limit be tied to each person.

  1. I don't think anyone ever saw what I saw on freezeover. 20 people in the game, 10 per side, GDI wins. Entire Nod team of Cyborgs deployed on the tiberium field, incapable of killing a single GDI for the last 5 minutes of the game. Why? GDI had 3 medics, a ghost stalker and a platoon of officers. Literally immortal. Been there, on Nod. If i can't kill a single person for so long as a vet 2 cyborg, i don't think anyone can.
  2. Basic Light Infantry is meant to be a weak, but all-round unit. You don't want to be useless when your money runs out, do you?
  3. Pistol is ok. If you can't kill a pistol-wielder with an assault rifle or an officer weapon, the problem lies on your side, not the weapon's.
  4. I think refillable mines should make a come-back. They're not as op as we were lead to believe, especially now that Nod is stronger than ever. 700 money for 8 mines, plus a mine limit, is not that efficient.

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- Cyborgs need nerfing, Then again if Disk throwers are getting buffed then i don't see them being as huge of a problem, because right now GDI have no counter to them.

 

- Pistol feels too strong right now, Rather then making it not Hit scan just Nerf the damn thing already.

 

 

1. GDI's counter are Officers and they do a pretty good job at dispatching Cyborgs. Granted you have to get a bit up close but they work.

 

2. Why is everyone suddenly complaining pistols are too stronger AFTER they receive a +1 damage increase lol.

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Cyborgs - classic need be slowest reduce move speed(not tu much)(this will able more easily aim for GDI) because they have heavy metal on self and they are much heavy.And they need accuracy(they really need accuracy nerf) like officier on Arm gattlng with regen im sure with you Gene.on Vet they need really reduced damage on buildings with cannon (i play very loot with cyborgs) and need nerf regen

 

Rocket Trooper - please add pistol

 

Disc Thower - please add pistol buffs ok

 

Umagon - C4 please add splash damage and damage vs cyborgs

 

Engineer - dont have on Elite rank weapon for repair vehicles - tested Nod engineer

 

Pistol Nod/GDI - 1 damage vehicles please now have 0 damage

 

Can you add granades for classic Infantry with small damage but good vs vehicles its really boring killing vehicles with rifles only

 

Idea - Conffesors can you add AT Mines ? GDI have Emp Mines why Nod have nothing? AT mines will be good vs GDI rushes,and when GDI destroy Nod War Factory

  1. Accuracy nerf may help. Arm cannon may be getting a nerf anyway.
  2. Maybe. Depends how he feels after the extensive rebalance
  3. Disk Throwers are REALLY good against infantry now. Not needed
  4. Same as voe
  5. It's a wierd thing. It's too slow at reparing vehicles for an elite upgrade. It's getting changes next patch.
  6. Maybe
  7. ..I don't think so. This isn't battlefield
  8. Because Nod has stealth and underground

 

Medic shouldn't be changed, he's fine the way he is. Not being able to heal other medics is going to hamper teamwork between medics and make him worse. The only thing the medic needs is better self healing, which sucks even when fully promoted. Also when someone is getting healed can we have a bunch of Healing crosses around them.

 

Basic Light infantry shouldn't be allowed to damage MK:II (This mostly applies to Nod) We're talking about a Super Heavy Armored walker. The bullets probably wouldn't be able to penetrate it. And it prevents people from spamming light infantry to prevent the self healing from kicking into effect.

 

- Cyborgs need nerfing, Then again if Disk throwers are getting buffed then i don't see them being as huge of a problem, because right now GDI have no counter to them.

 

- Pistol feels too strong right now, Rather then making it not Hit scan just Nerf the damn thing already.

 

Riot Trooper mine limit should be per person not the entire team. There's been so many occasions where i needed a EMP mine and i couldn't because all of the mines were already placed by someone in front of a gate. I'd Rather have it so each person can deploy 3 mines each. And the mine limit be tied to each person.

  1. Actually I was in Voe's game.. AS THE MEDIC. I did get hurt a lot... which was instantly healed by the OTHER MEDIC. And when we healed each other, we also healed others thanks to splash damage. The splash damage is good and will remain, but it won't instantly heal you up, and you cannot heal other medics. The regen buff is to compensate for this.
  2. So barracks + refinery death = instant GG? No thanks.
  3. After talking with voe, we may remove the pistol nerfs I mentioned
  4. Probably not possible.

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What's the rate at which the medic heals? The medic was really op with its ability to almost instantly heal a gs with a quick retreat behind a rock.

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Medic - add pistol and delete uzi medic need be medic(support)(uzi is problem or remove pistol too) give him heal aura (slowly regenerate ally,regen on self and insant heal but reduce heal amount nerf like 70% and reduce splash)

please "Can no longer heal other medics" that is bad idea... Elite rank better hp better self regen and better regen ally..

 

why you need remove "heal other medics" its one of teamwork(i like teamwork) of GDI have if you remove uzi they dont rush they dont have weapon they dont kill buildings... this will prevent from Medic + Medic rushes

 

 

Hijacker - 1.idea can refill crowbar is he succes on steal vehicle of he fail crowbar will be lost (mech like titan is hard to steal)

2.idea give him refill crowbar incrase price 1600 and make immune disruptor and mlrs

3.idea give him emp weapon he become support unit he give small damage(need for exp) but disable vehicles and support team + crowbar(not refill) 1 build limit and 1500 price

4.i want field binoculars in this unit will be good

 

"Add enforcer unit to GDI" - this is unit ? or new infantry?

Edited by RimtechCZ

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Uhh.. no. If he only has a pistol, no-one will want to use the medic. The planned elite upgrade (a regen beacon) will also become useless, since the entire point of it was to allow the medic to fight more.

 

Because it is absolutely broken for medics to be able to heal other medics. I just witnessed a medic rush get right past base defences, and be nearly invulnerable until I managed to get a VERY lucky knife in the face. Meanwhile the rest of the team were trying to stop them with bullets.

 

Hijacker crowbar is automatically refilled if you do not hijack a vehicle. If that isn't the case, then it is a bug

 

Enforcer unit is a brand new GDI unit. It's been planned for a while now. The idea is a heavy anti-vehicle unit, similar to the confessor, but not identical in its role.

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Hijacker crowbar is automatically refilled if you do not hijack a vehicle. If that isn't the case, then it is a bug

 

 

 

I think he was trying to say it should be the other way around, as in you lose the crowbar if you don't hit a vehicle and steal it while keeping the crowbar if your grand theft auto attempt is successful.

 

However with the current hit detection for theft attempts this would make the Hijacker useless.

 

Maybe my memory is getting hazy in my old age but didn't we once have a limit of three Hijackers for Nod at any time rather than one. Well now that the Mk2 is unstealable (which was the main complaint about them if I remember correctly) could the unit limit not be returned to the old setting allowing Nod to stage vehicle stealing raids against GDI.

 

Don't know if this is possible but if having three Hijackers on the field at the same time felt too OP then a cool counter would be giving Wolverines the ability to detect them on radar (possibly as an orange dot) or even highlight them onscreen with a glowing outline that makes them really noticeable to Wolverine pilots allowing them to easy intercept and stop the attack on the bigger more valuable GDI vehicles.

 

And how did we even get to talking about the Hijacker? he isn't even on the change list at the top.

 

P.s Cyborgs are awesome and should be left alone you big Cyborg bullying meanie.

 

P.p.s I like the medic changes... Spy knife, not so much.

Edited by DeviousDave

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This thread is a general thread for ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING about infantry! Hijacker included!

 

It's not possible yet for client-side detection. Though it is in the backburner apparently.

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lol, I can tell by the comments who likes to spam the p stuff like medics, cyborgs, and mammoths.

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I spam medics, but i also have some dignity and barely ever by cyborgs and dts :v Spending of hijackers, i believe making them limited to 3 and additionally capable of driving vehicles would work wonders for nod field tactics. The fact that gdi can jump outside the vehicle and hijacker can't get in is stupid. That, or make the crowbar refillable. Same with emp mines for gdi.

 

Having autocorrect in polish makes it even harder to type posts via phone - edit

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EMP mines will be refillable next patch.

 

Hijacker limit will be increased from 2 to 5 next patch as well.

 

Iam not allowed to mess with the confessor's elite upgrade.. instead he will regain is veteran attack as a secondary fire.

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Hijacker limit will be increased from 2 to 5 next patch as well.

 

 

 

Wait what?

 

When have we been able to have 2 Hijackers at the same time?

Oh man, my install must be screwy because whenever someone else has a hijacker on the field I can't buy a second one.

 

Right, I'm off to verify my installation of TSR.

 

edit: funnily enough something was actually missing, not sure what though as the game seemed to run fine before hand.

Edited by DeviousDave

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