Event [Complete] RA:APB-themed Mafia game III

[Jeod]

I'm not afraid to die. It's just impossible to do at this stage. If you want to test me for one-time lynchproof then go right ahead.

 

The alternatives to the Vortex theory is Moonsense or KY being scum. Unless KY is scum and Nodlied's revival benefits him due to nightkill ability, they're both being cooperative. And even if KY is scum and wants Nodlied to return, they can't manipulate the votes even if there was a nightkill tonight. It would be 3v2.

 

If Moonsense is scum we'll quickly find out, since if the game doesn't end after Nodlied dies (again), we resume the scum hunt with no repercussions.

Also, to reiterate: I have been proven to be a building. If I am scum, I cannot make nightkills. Therefore, when Nodlied dies and we resume the scumhunt, I'm found quickly. If Moonsense and KY are both lynched, there's still Cat5 and Chaos, two clears. I would not be able to win no matter what.

 

There is no way I'm scum, and even if you don't trust me, there is no reason to ignore the possibility that the vortex is the last enemy.

Mafia edit: We don't know if the chronosphere is capturable or not. It could be a safe bet that it is, since that's what we would use to stop the vortex if anything, assuming that simply reviving Nodlied doesn't work. The vortex was definitely caused by Nodlied's death, since chronoshifting ChopBam would have caused the vortex on the same day.

 

A scum player wouldn't want to bring Nodlied back and risk the chance he can be captured.

[moonsense715]

I'll agree with Chaos_Knight with that even with the sniper's 25% stuck and 75% accurary, Nodlied can still be missed and then he kills us again

We'd need to have a night-action-blocking the night after shooting Nodlied if the shot fails. I wonder if a HT can help somehow with that? What else can we do?

[Jeod]

I'll agree with Chaos_Knight with that even with the sniper's 25% stuck and 75% accurary, Nodlied can still be missed and then he kills us again :vWe'd need to have a night-action-blocking the night after shooting Nodlied if the shot fails. I wonder if a HT can help somehow with that? What else can we do?

I'd be willing to bet the chronosphere needs to charge after each use. If his role picks up where it left off, it'll need to charge one night before it can be used again. It's a great point though, but the Sniper is the best we have.

 

Chaos, the Barracks offers refills as well as class changes right? If so, and if KY has a full Sniper rifle, you could see if I can gain a refill on my Flame Tower shot the night Moonsense is repairing the chronosphere. That'll give us three shots to use the next day as a failsafe.

 

Although that's completely your call. I'm trying to think of how we can do this while ensuring Nodlied's death. So, alternatively, if KY misses his shot, you could switch him to Shock Trooper while Nodlied is charging up. Then, he has another shot the next day and can paralyze Nodlied the next night.

Mafia Edit: The war factory, that's right! Category5, what units can you produce? Do you know any of their stats and abilities?

[moonsense715]

I don't think a Barracks can refill a Flame Tower Jeod

[Jeod]

Well, they're automated base defenses so there's no precedent on how or if they can get a refill. There's a better option in the vehicles anyway.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Just a Heavy Tank. That's all I can build.

 

I'm of the opinion that this plan is crazy. I've seen VERTi60 make a flavor that sounded threatening only for it to suddenly go away once town wins. For example, there was a flavor like that a couple games ago when I was turned into the KILLER MINE LAYER. All it required was removing the last hostile player. If I was lynched, the threat would have went away.

I also don't think VERTi60 would have told us about the Engineer role repairing things if we actually were supposed to figure that out on our own.

[Jeod]

Just a Heavy Tank. That's all I can build.

 

I'm of the opinion that this plan is crazy. I've seen VERTi60 make a flavor that sounded threatening only for it to suddenly go away once town wins. For example, there was a flavor like that a couple games ago when I was turned into the KILLER MINE LAYER. All it required was removing the last hostile player. If I was lynched, the threat would have went away.

I also don't think VERTi60 would have told us about the Engineer role repairing things if we actually were supposed to figure that out on our own.

Well, using the engineer to repair hostile buildings is unprecedented right?

Cat5, you think it's crazy. The alternative is either Moonsense or Killing_You is the last hostile. If you don't think the chronosphere repair is the way to go, then who do you think is scum?

##unvote

[VERTi60]

##unvote

[Vote Cancel] Jeod cancelled his/her vote on No Lynch!

 

Time Left:

0 day(s) , 23 hours, 58 min, 16 sec

 

CVC:

Category 5 Hurricane voted nobody

Chaos_Knight voted nobody [penalty vote(s): 1]

Jeod voted nobody [penalty vote(s): 1]

Killing You voted No Lynch

Wallymoon715 voted Jeod

 

2/5 votes casted so far

Jeod has the most votes - 2

[Jeod]

I'm gonna undo that. I gave it some thought and it has to be either moonsense or a chronosphere repair. Killing_You being scum doesn't explain the lack of night kills. Until that can be explained, I'm much more comfortable with the chronosphere repair than scumhunting for now.

 

##vote nolynch

[Category 5 Hurricane]

You've making it more complicated than it is. Read back on what it said:

 

"Are there more hostiles in the base? We must find out before it's too late!"

 

Clearly, if there weren't hostiles in the base, the game would be over. Our victory conditions would be met. There is a hostile remaining.

Also

 

"We must not stop now however. Find and lynch the remaining Allies before it's too late!"

[Jeod]

You've making it more complicated than it is. Read back on what it said:"Are there more hostiles in the base? We must find out before it's too late!"Clearly, if there weren't hostiles in the base, the game would be over. Our victory conditions would be met. There is a hostile remaining.Also"We must not stop now however. Find and lynch the remaining Allies before it's too late!"

The perils of reading hammer posts while at work. I missed that, as well as the chrono storm. Then again, flavor is flavor and due to the circumstances we face, I won't hold anything back because it might be crazy.

 

A War Factory that can only make heavy tanks is odd to me, since we have a Barracks that can offer all the Soviet infantry units. But ChopBam cleared you, so I have to accept that oddity.

 

As I said, if there is a remaining hostile, it must be moonsense unless Killing_You did not nightkill two nights in a row for some reason.

[Chaos_Knight]

May I also remind that there was no "Allied Propaganda" found on Nodlied's death.

So there might be 1 more person who's allied at heart.

 

Quite a meta argument but so far it was always the case AFAIK.

[Jeod]

May I also remind that there was no "Allied Propaganda" found on Nodlied's death.

So there might be 1 more person who's allied at heart.

 

Quite a meta argument but so far it was always the case AFAIK.

"Allied Propaganda"? Forgive me, but what do you mean?

If you mean like the Starshina gun found on Mojoman, Nodlied was a building and was not converted.

[Chaos_Knight]

 

May I also remind that there was no "Allied Propaganda" found on Nodlied's death.

So there might be 1 more person who's allied at heart.

 

Quite a meta argument but so far it was always the case AFAIK.

"Allied Propaganda"? Forgive me, but what do you mean?

If you mean like the Starshina gun found on Mojoman, Nodlied was a building and was not converted.

 

https://secure.w3dhub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=415598&p=618848

 

Like here. A on every game back on BHP.com where Allies were wiped, their propaganda was found.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

I think in previous games, when an Allied player was found, there would always be "Allied Propaganda" left in the player's belongings, which would flavor-prove the alingment.

This case was probably different just because the player was a building, not an infantry or vehicle.

[Jeod]

I see. Sorry for being late to the party. Were there ever any Allied buildings in the previous game? Because if Nodlied is just a bulding, and a damaged one at that, this whole game could be a horror/ghost story scenario with the visceroids and damaged chronosphere. Although it would have fit better if Nodlied were a third party. If Vertigo is trying something new, I'd say we definitely have feedback for him at the end of the game.

[Chaos_Knight]

I think in previous games, when an Allied player was found, there would always be "Allied Propaganda" left in the player's belongings, which would flavor-prove the alingment.

This case was probably different just because the player was a building, not an infantry or vehicle.

Eh, just sharing my observations.

Not to mention constant mentions of allies planning stuff in the Night posts and lynching remaining allies in the day ones.

[Jeod]

 

I think in previous games, when an Allied player was found, there would always be "Allied Propaganda" left in the player's belongings, which would flavor-prove the alingment.

This case was probably different just because the player was a building, not an infantry or vehicle.

 

Eh, just sharing my observations.

Not to mention constant mentions of allies planning stuff in the Night posts and lynching remaining allies in the day ones.

Verti did say it was just his standard rules post somewhere.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Perhaps, except I believe that when the KILLER MINE LAYER role was in effect, he didn't mention Allies as a threat as I wasn't an Allied role.

 

If the Vortex is not an aspect of Nodlied's role, then that should clear Killing_You.

Top suspect is Moony and we should be able to lynch him. While my earlier analysis was that he looked town by asking questions, Nodlied wasn't exactly around to help him, so maybe he would have anyway. He also mentioned gdoc access, which I initially would have said was a scum slip, but I found that I myself actually brought that term up before. If he is scum, he's doing an amazing job, but he's kinda trapped by game logic. It doesn't really fit for it to be anyone else.

 

I would also consider shooting Jeod to prove his role, but I'm not in favor of this action as we'd lose if I'm wrong about Killing_You.

 

##vote WallyMoony

[Jeod]

So far we have 3 in favor of chronosphere repair and 2 in favor of lynching today (one for Moonsense). Good thing we have time to plan our course of action.

[moonsense715]

I think in previous games, when an Allied player was found, there would always be "Allied Propaganda" left in the player's belongings, which would flavor-prove the alingment.

This case was probably different just because the player was a building, not an infantry or vehicle.

There was no allied propaganda found in the Day 1 opening text, like in most of the mafia games.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Let's not forget that Wally was an "urgent" replacement in a game that has lacked Night Kills.

[Chaos_Knight]

I would also consider shooting Jeod to prove his role, but I'm not in favor of this action as we'd lose if I'm wrong about Killing_You.

You know well how generally paranoid I am but the thing which ticked me off about Jeod was how he was basically herding both KY and MoonWood towards a certain direction. Which was a pretty obvious dead end really.

Plus there's this curious post.

1) Shoot Nodlied, who is a suspected building. If he's a chronosphere we shit bricks.

and

2) Nodlied is a chronosphere, which would explain the lack of nightkills as buildings cannot visit. This is also the easiest outcome.

Where did he get that info from I wonder? Chronospheres don't erase people from memories normally, and I expected Jeod to call out KY (who was the first to bring chronosphere up) on such a lore inaccuracy. Instead he supported the theory.

Also I believe both Cat5 and I count as "visiting" buildings.

 

Then yesterday he suggested we shoot you because "lynching Cat5 is a waste of time"

Lynching Cat5 is a waste in my opinion, before shooting him.

Nope. I think if anyone should be shot now it's Cat5.

The next morning you are suddenly "Confirmed town".

 

Unless I am misunderstanding something, there're some things which don't add up.

My theory is simple tbh. Jeod is a pillbox killing any town (incl. us, buildings) who would visit him. And this is why he had these shenannigans with the claimed role description not matching the one in the OP for a FT:

 

If we're working the angle that there is a Allied Building, then that doesn't clear Jeod, either, especially since he's claimed a building from the role list and has now claimed two aspects to that role that do not match that role.

I only mentioned one and it's a basic given--that I'll shoot third party infantry who visit me as well as Allies.

[moonsense715]

Let's not forget that Wally was an "urgent" replacement in a game that has lacked Night Kills.

But there are still no nightkills. The "urgent replacement" changed nothing in the game.

 

Also how about you let me prove my alignment somehow? You name it.

[Jeod]

Chaos:

 

1. I do plenty of things when I play mafia, including coming up with long analysis posts. I'm going to miss small things like lore from time to time. Cat5 did the same with the chrono tank. If you want me to address it now, I remember that a Red Alert 2 plot recap said that Einstein "used his chronosphere device to travel back in time and forever alter history". I believe that line plays during the installation narration for RA2. If it's incorrect, my bad, but that is how I remember it and thus is how I equate chronosphere to time travel.

 

2. Buildings cannot physically move, hence building "visits" do not allow anyone to retaliate. Plenty of roles do this.

 

3. Today's confirmation is a complete 180 because of what happened yesterday and today. Yesterday Nodlied was shot and Cat5 was not a proven building by lynch. I wanted to test my theory that his ridiculous war factory claim was false. The lynch failure confirmed him as town in my analysis.

 

4. I've gone over quite a few times today why I can't be an Allied base defense.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

 

Let's not forget that Wally was an "urgent" replacement in a game that has lacked Night Kills.

But there are still no nightkills. The "urgent replacement" changed nothing in the game.

 

Also how about you let me prove my alignment somehow? You name it.

 

I already came up with a scenario where you whould choose to not night kill in your situation. I did so myself in the KML game. I thought I was going to be investigated by as many as two cop roles, so I thought my best option was to not kill. It did wind up winning that game, though maybe more because of the ghosts than because of anything I did.

As far as proving yourself, the only way really anyone has to prove themselves is to die. Everything else could be a ploy.

[Jeod]

There's also the evidence that we all knew Killing_You was a Sniper. It is a high likelihood that even a newer mafia player like moonsense could read the role list and see that he should take no action.

However, I cannot overlook how quickly Killing_You agreed with my chronosphere repair idea. I'm not suggesting the idea was a bluff to get information, because it wasn't, but there was information nonetheless.

I'm still for the repair plan, btw.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Killing_You has done a lot of thought-following in this game, which may be coincidental (as in, thought the same things but just posted later) or reactionary to plausible arguments that help him. He pushed on Nodlied pretty hard, though. And I don't think he'd do so at this point of the game unless it would have improved his victory chances. If it was 4 vs 2 yesterday, that meant shooting the wrong person, which he effectively controlled, and either lynching another or night killing if that fails, and victory is achieved. Now he would have to work it down to 1 vs 1. 4 vs 1, shoot a townie now, 3 vs 1, lynch another if possible, 2 vs 1, night kill, win. Unless the Chrono Vortex causes him to win sooner than that, there isn't a benefit to this ploy.

[VERTi60]

##vote nolynch

[Vote Counted] Jeod voted No Lynch to be lynched!

 

 

##vote WallyMoony

[Vote Counted] Category 5 Hurricane voted Wallymoon715 to be lynched!

 

 

Time Left:

0 day(s) , 13 hours, 59 min, 29 sec

 

CVC:

Category 5 Hurricane voted Wallymoon715

Chaos_Knight voted nobody [penalty vote(s): 1]

Jeod voted No Lynch [penalty vote(s): 1]

Killing You voted No Lynch

Wallymoon715 voted Jeod

 

4/5 votes casted so far

2 voted players are at a tie (2 each)

Time Left:

0 day(s) , 13 hours, 59 min, 29 sec

 

CVC:

Category 5 Hurricane voted Wallymoon715

Chaos_Knight voted nobody [penalty vote(s): 1]

Jeod voted No Lynch [penalty vote(s): 1]

Killing You voted No Lynch

Wallymoon715 voted Jeod

 

4/5 votes casted so far

1 voted player and no lynch are at a tie (2 each)

[Category 5 Hurricane]

Killing_You also chose to scout when we know there isn't a role that could stop him or reveal him in any way.