A Path Beyond Refillable insta-heal for medic?

[Pushwall]

So it seems the medic is still a problem, but outright nerfing him would just make him even more useless on vehicle maps and I really want to figure out a way to make him more useful for those.

What if, in exchange for his medic kit equip time and healing to other medics being dialed back a bit again as a general nerf, he got given a secondary fire that instantly refilled a portion of teammates' HP (say 50 health plus also starting the gradual heal) but can only be used once and also starts a long reload on his medic kit which he must wait out (equipping the MP5 prolongs this as it would with any other reloading weapon) before he's able to use his normal healing mode again (say 5 seconds)? Due to how the aoe weapons work, this would still not heal the Medic himself nor would it be possible to do so without making it a separate weapon entirely. But naturally it can be made to heal other Medics less just like the gradual heal.

The big thing about this is that Supply Trucks would be able to refill the ammo that the secondary fire uses as well as circumventing the reload, thus essentially giving him more charges of this ability on maps where STs spawn in the field or can be bought and kept behind front lines without too much trouble. Or if he can get home to refill on non-vehicle maps.

I've already tested this out and it can be done without technical issues - though KOTG's one-shot medic kit crate will have to be upgraded to a one-shot insta-heal kit as adding the instant-but-limited-use secondary fire requires making the normal firing mode use no ammo, but given that that item almost never comes into play anyway, I guess there's no issue with that.

The same limited-ammo thing could easily be done for Mechanics. Not considering doing it though, just pointing it out since I'm sure someone else would have raised the question given how similarly the weapons behave.

If this is a little ridiculous, we can also use this thread to try to brainstorm ways to make the medic useful outside of infantry maps that don't also make the medic too ridiculous inside infantry maps, or act as a general nerf to infantry that aren't being medic'd or overhaul too much again (so ditching the regen system entirely is probably out of the question).

[ganein14]

How about having the med kit act like the current mechanic's wrench? You'd have to actively choose between healing your team, or defending yourself and potentially putting your team at risk of dying.

[Pushwall]

3 hours ago, ganein14 said:

How about having the med kit act like the current mechanic's wrench? You'd have to actively choose between healing your team, or defending yourself and potentially putting your team at risk of dying.

I don't see how that helps it in vehicle maps. In fact it would make multi-medic groups even more ridiculous in inf mapsas it'd mean that having multiple medics results in healing that stacks so they wouldn't even need to contribute to combat themselves anymore, plus it'd be a big nerf to flamethrowers - who as we know find the most use in inf maps scenarios but also have some use in veh maps unlike the medic - as they wouldn't even be able to cancel the healing of a mechanic-esque medic kit. And they are kinda meant to be the primary counter to medic heals...

[des1206]

Give him a bit more anti-vehicle + MCT damage (equal to or above M16), keep the short range and nerf anti-infantry dmg?

[Pushwall]

1 hour ago, des1206 said:

Give him a bit more anti-vehicle + MCT damage (equal to or above M16), keep the short range and nerf anti-infantry dmg?

It's a bit hard to justify his dinky MP5 being decent against tanks, especially moreso than heavier rifles/machineguns, but that could be an option if we're desperate, it certainly doesn't buff his OP inf map self. It did have good MCT damage in its first inception, but that was quickly deemed overpowered, now it's about on par with the M16. And naturally since he's more likely to get into an MCT room on non-vehicle maps that'd be a bigger boon on those.

[Pushwall]

Perhaps a partial solution is to have V2s be less overkill against infantry - no point trying to medic your teammates against V2s if they can just one-shot people from full health without even directly hitting them. I'm considering reverting the radius change and just making arty-class splash damage penetrate armour slightly less so a V2 cannot kill any armoured infantry from full health in one splash blast, which would also extend to the Allied Artillery (direct hits would be overkill-death as usual though).

[des1206]

2 hours ago, Pushwall said:

It's a bit hard to justify his dinky MP5 being decent against tanks, especially moreso than heavier rifles/machineguns, but that could be an option if we're desperate, it certainly doesn't buff his OP inf map self. It did have good MCT damage in its first inception, but that was quickly deemed overpowered, now it's about on par with the M16. And naturally since he's more likely to get into an MCT room on non-vehicle maps that'd be a bigger boon on those.

What was wrong with his old M16 again?

13 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

Perhaps a partial solution is to have V2s be less overkill against infantry - no point trying to medic your teammates against V2s if they can just one-shot people from full health without even directly hitting them. I'm considering reverting the radius change and just making arty-class splash damage penetrate armour slightly less so a V2 cannot kill any armoured infantry from full health in one splash blast, which would also extend to the Allied Artillery (direct hits would be overkill-death as usual though).

How about we let V2 still do one shot kill, but with burn damage which can be stop by the medic.

[Pushwall]

10 minutes ago, des1206 said:

What was wrong with his old M16 again?

Made him too good at sniping infantry from high range, and if we're talking the Pyryle and Delta-initial-release versions of the medic who had a "nerfed ROF" M16, also made him too poor at contributing to building destruction and vehicles - as in, even worse than he is now.

[Pushwall]

26 minutes ago, des1206 said:

How about we let V2 still do one shot kill, but with burn damage which can be stop by the medic.

The problem with adding considerable burn damage to the arty weapons (there's a reason it's only the 2.5-damage quick burn currently) is that you can be on the very edge of the splash radius, take 0.01 splash damage and still receive the full effect of the burn, for what would probably be upwards of 15 damage over 15 seconds if you wanted it to be strong enough for using a medic to matter. Which is absurd if there isn't a medic around and also means the V2 doesn't have to be as precise as it should. You're basically calling for the V2 to become a more aimable, sniper-range, infinite ammo version of the toxin grenades from Reborn.

[SirJustin90]

The current medic is insanely OP atm. The real one in game only healed one at a time. I think just simply lowering the heal per second would do a lot.

I could see giving him this ability plus a lowering to his heal over time speed... but to just buff him with the heal pack, would just make it even more insane on infantry only maps.

(It isn't only his healing other medics that the problem, the heal speed alone is... especially on smaller teams 5 v 5 etc.)

Edited June 5, 2017 by SirJustin90

[Raptor29aa]

 Why not both? Maybe subtract damage from V2 while at same time giving projectile minor burn damage. When I say minor I mean 3 damage over 3 seconds or Something like that. So medic still has use but V2 can still kill infantry. 

As for artillery it doesn't need any changes since soviets have no medic and both teams will have something asymmetrical.

[OWA]

What is the problem with the medic that needs solving @Pushwall? You explained the potential solution in the first post but not the problem that needed solving.

My guess is that medics are a bit too good currently?

[Pushwall]

21 minutes ago, OWA said:

What is the problem with the medic that needs solving @Pushwall? You explained the potential solution in the first post but not the problem that needed solving.

My guess is that medics are a bit too good currently?

We're still stuck in the old "regenerating rifle soldier" circle except his combat isn't completely identical to that of another unit now (and actually helps fill the huge gap in power between captains and Tanyas) and the number of maps he can actually do his medic stuff on is only slightly larger than it was in Gamma. Looking for ways to further incentivise medicking on vehicle maps, which will then be countered by reduction of some of his recent changes so that he doesn't dominate infantry maps as hard as he currently does.

[Voe]

What if medics didn't heal other medics, but instead they had a constant health ticker?

It would make them easier to remove, but not outright useless in prolonged engagements.

[Pushwall]

Thought of another thing involving burn damage, might detract from the Engineer too much though - partially converting the damage dealt by AP mines to a fast-acting high-damage burn, and adjusting how AP mines are absorbed by armour (right now it's not much).

The end result will be that armoured infantry can survive walking on a single mine IF they are almost immediately healed by a medic (who is bound to always be very close by to a team of people trying to break into a building), but if they aren't medic'd and take the whole burn, or they trigger multiple mines at once and take too much instant damage, they end up being exactly as dead as anyone walking on an AP mine normally would be. And Tanyas or anyone else unarmoured will just outright die to AP mines as they used to, as an extra safety measure to cut down on what could happen if the AP mine burn gets overridden by a friendly flamethrower/shocky or something.

46 minutes ago, Voe said:

What if medics didn't heal other medics, but instead they had a constant health ticker?

It would make them easier to remove, but not outright useless in prolonged engagements.

Like... how much of a health ticker? With how armour reduces damage now the old 3/sec would be a bit ridiculous. Maybe 2? Either that or dropping his health back to 75.

A slight problem with this would be that medics have no way of restoring other medics' armour. But as of recent changes, the only effective ways of whittling that down to empty are kapitans, flamethrowers and the rare tank shell direct hit anyway. So that may not actually be a problem and would help with encouraging using flamers against them.

Another thing is, if it's not coupled with a max health reduction, it'd make him even better of a solo counter-infiltration commando, which I'd say he does a good enough job of already

[des1206]

- I don't suppose overheal for a single unit is an option in the coding? In the field often there is only 1 or 2 units the medic can support at a time since maps are big and infantry don't clump together.  It would be great if the medic can over heal a unit (with a long reload).

 

- Can the medic's radar indicator be changed to help Allied players see him better? Or maybe just give his healing sound a very long range (like APC/ST horn). This will help field infantry to naturally try to group around him. 

[Voe]

26 minutes ago, Pushwall said:

Thought of another thing involving burn damage, might detract from the Engineer too much though - partially converting the damage dealt by AP mines to a fast-acting high-damage burn, and adjusting how AP mines are absorbed by armour (right now it's not much).

The end result will be that armoured infantry can survive walking on a single mine IF they are almost immediately healed by a medic (who is bound to always be very close by to a team of people trying to break into a building), but if they aren't medic'd and take the whole burn, or they trigger multiple mines at once and take too much instant damage, they end up being exactly as dead as anyone walking on an AP mine normally would be. And Tanyas or anyone else unarmoured will just outright die to AP mines as they used to, as an extra safety measure to cut down on what could happen if the AP mine burn gets overridden by a friendly flamethrower/shocky or something.

Like... how much of a health ticker? With how armour reduces damage now the old 3/sec would be a bit ridiculous. Maybe 2? Either that or dropping his health back to 75.

A slight problem with this would be that medics have no way of restoring other medics' armour. But as of recent changes, the only effective ways of whittling that down to empty are kapitans, flamethrowers and the rare tank shell direct hit anyway. So that may not actually be a problem and would help with encouraging using flamers against them.

Another thing is, if it's not coupled with a max health reduction, it'd make him even better of a solo counter-infiltration commando, which I'd say he does a good enough job of already

The problem with medic isn't that he's too strong of a combat unit, but that medic blobs are almost unkillable. I see no problem with him being a better commando at a cost of reduced blobbing potential.

Changes to ap mines, if any, should be making them either more visible, or easier to kill with bullets. I think there is a problem with the soviet mines, especially on maps like under  which require the allies to run 2 engies continuously throughout the map to clear them out. Regular, non-engineer infantry is completely hopeless against mines, as opposed to vehicles which do have a fighting chance (looking at you, v2 splash and mammoth missiles).

[des1206]

11 hours ago, Pushwall said:

The end result will be that armoured infantry can survive walking on a single mine IF they are almost immediately healed by a medic (who is bound to always be very close by to a team of people trying to break into a building), but if they aren't medic'd and take the whole burn, or they trigger multiple mines at once and take too much instant damage, they end up being exactly as dead as anyone walking on an AP mine normally would be. And Tanyas or anyone else unarmoured will just outright die to AP mines as they used to, as an extra safety measure to cut down on what could happen if the AP mine burn gets overridden by a friendly flamethrower/shocky or something.

 

Would Soviet players just lay 2 mines at the same place to overcome that? I know I would.

[Pushwall]

27 minutes ago, des1206 said:

Would Soviet players just lay 2 mines at the same place to overcome that? I know I would.

Good luck doing that at all the building doors + ladders on flare maps + other places you can expect Allied infantry to use to their advantage (for example, the bump on Camos Canyon that infantry can use to protect themselves from the Barracks flame tower) with a 60 mine limit.

Thinking about it some more though, this feature is probably not the best idea as DOT effects can be easily cheesed by just hopping back into a vehicle if you just came out of one. Unless we make it like the aforementioned Reborn toxinades where the burn lasts forever until you get medic'd so you can't just wait it out in a vehicle.

[des1206]

1 minute ago, Pushwall said:

Good luck doing that at all the building doors + ladders on flare maps + other places you can expect Allied infantry to use to their advantage (for example, the bump on Camos Canyon that infantry can use to protect themselves from the Barracks flame tower) with a 60 mine limit.

It will definitely make things harder for Soviets and slow down the mine layer's work. But at the risk of Allied killing my buildings? No thanks I will take my slow down mine layer and still lay double mines at every door (isn't that many on most maps).

[OWA]

An idea which nobody has talked about yet is using the med-kit as a pseudo-beacon. We could consider making it a place-able object that grants a healing buff in an AoE. This would require medics to time when they drop their heals during a firefight to get the most out of their ability. Also this means that medics can't move their healing ability with them and keep Tanyas practically invincible for long periods of time. These place-able objects could have a limited lifespan and be refillable (via refill or supply truck). There could also be multiples in the inventory upon character purchase is needed.

A separate idea is to keep the way that the medic works right now, but make their healing ability a lot more gradual like the mechanic. That way medics can keep a group of infantry healed in the same sort of way that the the Medic from TF2 and Mercy from Overwatch keep units healed. It means that out of combat Medics would be great at healing infantry, but in combat the advantage to having them would be reduced slightly.

Food for thought anyway.

[Pushwall]

12 hours ago, OWA said:

An idea which nobody has talked about yet is using the med-kit as a pseudo-beacon. We could consider making it a place-able object that grants a healing buff in an AoE. This would require medics to time when they drop their heals during a firefight to get the most out of their ability. Also this means that medics can't move their healing ability with them

So... make it completely useless in the field, and better when hunkering down in a building? When the issue is that they're already poor at the former and too good at the latter? Also you already know what this is from and why I'd prefer to keep it different

12 hours ago, OWA said:

A separate idea is to keep the way that the medic works right now, but make their healing ability a lot more gradual like the mechanic. That way medics can keep a group of infantry healed in the same sort of way that the the Medic from TF2 and Mercy from Overwatch keep units healed. It means that out of combat Medics would be great at healing infantry, but in combat the advantage to having them would be reduced slightly.

How can it possibly be made any more gradual than it already is?

If you mean getting rid of the heal-over-time effect, there's a reason it's there - so that the Flamethrower/Starshina can actually make some effort to mitigate the healing to force the Medic back into heal duty, and so that the Medic can actually contribute to a firefight if there aren't flame weapons floating around.

If this weren't the case, the Medic would be forced to just bunnyhop around like a spaz holding LMB (which is something that can't be fixed because applying the new repair tool/wrench method would cause it to heal enemies as well) in all fights where he's not the last man standing, and the Flamethrower would be one of the worst anti-medic-squad units because without the ability to cancel heals, its DPS just can't stand up to direct hits from small arms.

[Pushwall]

Something I should probably do though is give the medic kit a charge-up time. Right now there's an unfortunate exploit that allows its gradual fire mode to be refired much faster than a flamethrower can reapply burns, and a chargeup would solve that without hurting the normal rate at which it can be refired.

However, charge times prevent secondary fires from working for some reason - this is something new as Gamma's shock trooper had a charge time and 2 fire modes, and worked fine apart from the fact that the charge made it a shitty unit - so its emergency burst heal would have to be revoked or moved to its own weapon slot.

Alternatively if we move it to its own weapon slot we could go ahead with @OWA's heal beacon idea. But given that it would then be usable in conjunction with the normal medic kit fire mode, it would need to be able to be disarmed like instantly by techs/engs, so that it becomes something that can only be reliably employed in outdoors areas that Allied infantry enjoy using (like the aforementioned Camos Canyon Soviet barracks hump) and would be hard for Soviet repairmen to reach, instead of being something that makes medic groups indoors even more unkillable. Also, if it uses actual beacon logic, it would have the unfortunate side effect of being barred by the same no-beacon-zones that prevent A-Bomb flares from being deployed in tunnels.

[Pushwall]

Another possibility is that this beacon could act as more of a general support for field infantry that works well with in conjunction with the medic kit instead of just being a better but stationary medic kit - for example, it could do these things:

• renders all nearby friendly infantry (20 metres?) immune to squishing.
• renders all nearby friendly infantry immune to mundane splash damage (so splash from tank shells, V2s and possibly even AP mines, but not flamethrowers/Yaks/tesla/nukes or direct hit damage). The easiest way to script this would most likely involve messing with the infantry's armour type - which means Tanyas would not benefit from this, so if it's made to null AP mines it still can't let Tanyas enter buildings. Both of these buffs ultimately force Soviets to go on foot to deal with a medic squad even when it's outdoors, unless they have the option of employing Hinds, Yaks or Rangers.
• automatically refill the armour of nearby friendly infantry (which, unlike the medic kit, would work on medics too)
• upgrade the medic kit of all nearby Medics to a different version that has increased range (20m instead of 12.5m?) Maybe do the same for mechanics' wrenches too to promote combined arms.
• anything that leaves the radius of the beacon, or enters a vehicle, loses these effects. And the beacon itself vanishes after a minute or so, so people don't just go littering their base and the field with dozens of them to have permanent safe zones everywhere.

So it would be a much bigger help to infantry outdoors on vehicle maps than it would be indoors or on infantry maps, given that there are very few ways to get crushed on those maps (or none on Fissure) and the only infantry weapon with mundane splash that's actually worth using for its splash instead of anything else is Grenadier's grenades. So in those situations all it really does is make the medic kit work over a longer range, which doesn't matter too much when indoors either. So these beacons wouldn't need to be super-easy to disarm either, and using a supply truck to plant a ton of them in quick succession wouldn't be abusable because none of the effects they provide are able to stack (for example, you can't become more immune to crushing/splash) - all it does is make them harder to get rid of.

[des1206]

7 hours ago, Pushwall said:

Another possibility is that this beacon could act as more of a general support for field infantry that works well with in conjunction with the medic kit instead of just being a better but stationary medic kit - for example, it could do these things:

• renders all nearby friendly infantry (20 metres?) immune to squishing.
• renders all nearby friendly infantry immune to mundane splash damage (so splash from tank shells, V2s and possibly even AP mines, but not flamethrowers/Yaks/tesla/nukes). The easiest way to script this would most likely involve messing with the infantry's armour type - which means Tanyas would not benefit from this, so if it's made to null AP mines it still can't let Tanyas enter buildings. Both of these buffs ultimately force Soviets to go on foot to deal with a medic squad even when it's outdoors, unless they have the option of employing Hinds, Yaks or Rangers.
• automatically refill the armour of nearby friendly infantry (which, unlike the medic kit, would work on medics too)
• upgrade the medic kit of all nearby Medics to a different version that has increased range (20m instead of 12.5m?) Maybe do the same for mechanics' wrenches too to promote combined arms.
• anything that leaves the radius of the beacon, or enters a vehicle, loses these effects. And the beacon itself vanishes after a minute or so, so people don't just go littering their base and the field with dozens of them to have permanent safe zones everywhere.

So it would be a much bigger help to infantry outdoors on vehicle maps than it would be indoors or on infantry maps, given that there are very few ways to get crushed on those maps (or none on Fissure) and the only infantry weapon with mundane splash that's actually worth using for its splash instead of anything else is Grenadier's grenades. So in those situations all it really does is make the medic kit work over a range, which doesn't matter too much when indoors either. So these beacons wouldn't need to be super-easy to disarm either, and using a supply truck to plant a ton of them in quick succession wouldn't be abusable because they don't provide any stacking effects (for example, you can't become more immune to crushing/splash) - all it does is make them harder to get rid of.

Not a bad idea, if you think about it in terms of vehicles, Allied infantry are most afraid of: V2, Mammoth Tusk, TT. One of the reason medic doesn't get fielded much is that Allied infantry get one/two-shotted by those too much in the field. If you can make infantry very resistant to those (not immune, too not Ralistic, and call it an armor kit or something not medkit, this isn't TF2 where anything goes!), this will really up Allied's game in the field and in defending a base, especially when they lose War Factory. Not sure about AP mine resistance though.

[SirJustin90]

I think simply making the squish proof would be great. It would achieve your earlier goal of helping infantry versus vehicles, but not make it even more OP on infantry maps / indoors.

If that's the case, and armor can be messed with, is it possible to give them squish proof, and armor more resilient to vehicles specifically, and not other weapons as well?

Edit: I don't think AP protection is a good idea, we already have engineers for that, who should be far safer if a medic is nearby. Using both is good tactics, and gives a reason to have the medic there in the first place, to allow combat disarms.

Edited June 9, 2017 by SirJustin90

[Pushwall]

19 minutes ago, SirJustin90 said:

and armor more resilient to vehicles specifically, and not other weapons as well?

That's the point of the "mundane splash" protection. It would protect them against indirect fire from heavy tanks, mammoth tanks (including tusks), V2s, rpgs and grenades - but wouldn't protect against direct hits from these weapons (which are difficult except for the grenade and I guess the RPG if you're asking @NoSpoons), and would provide no protection at all against fire, tesla, environmental damage and small arms. And the only Soviet vehicles using small arms are the Hind, Yak and Ranger, all limited in availability, 2 being pretty easy for RS to shoot down under protection of a medic and the other only excelling if it can maintain its maximum range and not get hit. We could always make the armour buff give a slight resistance to direct tank shots a bit as well to further drive home the point that you have to use infantry/aircraft to counter this.

[SirJustin90]

10 hours ago, Pushwall said:

That's the point of the "mundane splash" protection. It would protect them against indirect fire from heavy tanks, mammoth tanks (including tusks), V2s, rpgs and grenades - but wouldn't protect against direct hits from these weapons (which are difficult except for the grenade and I guess the RPG if you're asking @NoSpoons), and would provide no protection at all against fire, tesla, environmental damage and small arms. And the only Soviet vehicles using small arms are the Hind, Yak and Ranger, all limited in availability, 2 being pretty easy for RS to shoot down under protection of a medic and the other only excelling if it can maintain its maximum range and not get hit. We could always make the armour buff give a slight resistance to direct tank shots a bit as well to further drive home the point that you have to use infantry/aircraft to counter this.

Sounds great!

Edit: The protection from direct hits likely shouldn't be too much of an issue as they generally aren't 1 hit kills anyways? And the healing should help... but I suppose only testing would say for sure.

(Being unsquishable, and immune to high direct hit damage, you could virtually ignore the vehicles entirely). 

Edited June 9, 2017 by SirJustin90

[NoSpoons]

On 2017-6-9 at 8:25 AM, Pushwall said:

That's the point of the "mundane splash" protection. It would protect them against indirect fire from heavy tanks, mammoth tanks (including tusks), V2s, rpgs and grenades - but wouldn't protect against direct hits from these weapons (which are difficult except for the grenade and I guess the RPG if you're asking @NoSpoons), and would provide no protection at all against fire, tesla, environmental damage and small arms. And the only Soviet vehicles using small arms are the Hind, Yak and Ranger, all limited in availability, 2 being pretty easy for RS to shoot down under protection of a medic and the other only excelling if it can maintain its maximum range and not get hit. We could always make the armour buff give a slight resistance to direct tank shots a bit as well to further drive home the point that you have to use infantry/aircraft to counter this.

Just a little bump on this topic, with the new infantry amour direct hits with an RPG take about 3 direct body hits to down a regular infantry man, and I think its 5 now for an officer so unless the person you are fighting is really incompetent you aren't going to be able to put up much of a fight with the RPG or LAW, that being said I do think these weapons could use a bit of a buff to their direct hit damage to make them more viable against infantry, I believe all weapons should have a degree of viability against enemy infantry so that you can maximize areas for player engagement during combat, a good example of this is the engineers C4 although its seemingly useless against enemy infantry because of how unwieldy it is but there are rare and golden moments where you manage to land it an it's just the best feeling in the world, but anyway my point being perhaps those weapons could use a buff against infantry in the direct hit department.

And no I'm not making this appeal to further my own ends because I can probably still manage to get kills with it as it is, I just feel it is to the rocket soldiers downfall to make one of its attacks less engaging, anyway, I could blather on 

 

As for the medic I really do like the idea of Anti crush that the beacon could provide, however could there be a way that instead of having technicians disarm the beacon it can rather be vulnerable to fire damage from flamethrowers? This is mainly to just further solidify the FlameThrower as an anti medic weapon, if possible I would like to avoid situations where half of the soviet team are spam buying techies to try and disarm the darned thing and end up contributing 0% to repelling the allies, that being said I dont know your limitations and what can be done with beacons 

[Pushwall]

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

 

You say all this like I'm nerfing the RPG specifically. It's a casualty of using the same warhead as many other anti-tank weapons. Buff the RPG's direct damage to infantry, and you buff the Medium/Mammoth/Phase/Turret's direct damage to infantry, and is that honestly needed? And for the nth time, we have far too many distinct warheads already to make one just for the RPG/LAW to let them and only them hurt infantry more. Also they are kinda meant to be the worst anti-infantry infantry (besides maybe techies) because they can do anti-tank/air/ship work and are so cheap. If you want to kill infantry while still killing tanks, pony up the cash for a shock or volkov.

3 hours ago, NoSpoons said:

As for the medic I really do like the idea of Anti crush that the beacon could provide, however could there be a way that instead of having technicians disarm the beacon it can rather be vulnerable to fire damage from flamethrowers? This is mainly to just further solidify the FlameThrower as an anti medic weapon, if possible I would like to avoid situations where half of the soviet team are spam buying techies to try and disarm the darned thing and end up contributing 0% to repelling the allies, that being said I dont know your limitations and what can be done with beacons 

This thing isn't an a-bomb flare, its effects are hardly enough that Soviets will be desperately scrambling to disarm it instead of just killing the medic(s) inside it since its effects aren't that significant if the people inside it aren't being constantly healed. Its disarmability is more to discourage Allies from deploying it inside buildings - if this thing becomes a reality I will also make the medic kit either stop healing armour entirely or return it to its early Delta super-slow armour repair, so its full armour heal will be pretty relevant in that situation. And the disarmability is also for consistency with other flares.