A Path Beyond Remove rooftop access from buildings?

[Pushwall]

Actually looking at the cuddling WF it has some rooftop hatches with stairways leading up to them. That'd be the best of both worlds really, a rooftop access that doesn't stick out of the top of the building but doesn't suffer the problems of ELEVATORS. I'll see if I can convert them.

[Killing_You]

What did his interior look like?

[Einstein]

I'll just drop a random thought here since we're talking about the WF.

So you know the pipe in the top of the WF? Everyone knows the pipe right? (The one that you can walk on from the back to the front) I think it would be cool to have a walkway about where that pipe is, and extend around to be on three sides as it is on the back (all sides except the front). That could open up some possibilities.

[Pushwall]

4 hours ago, Einstein said:

I'll just drop a random thought here since we're talking about the WF.

So you know the pipe in the top of the WF? Everyone knows the pipe right? (The one that you can walk on from the back to the front) I think it would be cool to have a walkway about where that pipe is, and extend around to be on three sides as it is on the back (all sides except the front). That could open up some possibilities.

Say no more.

And with these walkways, I can have team-locked doors up against these side walls that lead to a very small balcony with a ladder leading to the roof. Since people would only have to climb about 5 metres from there instead of 12, they'd have more leeway for not eating headshots while climbing. For the sake of aesthetics I'd only have the doors at the front or back and not both though.

Having the doors at the back has the advantage of being far away from the existing ladders, as well as less distance between the two doors and a pipe getting in the way of the guy on the roof, so a roof camper can't switch between covering the two doors so easily, but the disadvantage that the door may be easily triggered on accident (though not nearly as easily as elevators).

Having the doors at the front has the advantage that nobody will open them on accident, but the disadvantage of taking time to reach and being very close to the existing front ladder, so it'll be easier for multiple spots to get camped at once.

I may also have to keep the original WF for Siege (remember that the Soviet WF is half buried).

[Killing_You]

That's... actually genius. It might even help make the War Factory a more interesting building on the whole. And it might help people keep an eye out for spies who like to hide on that pipe and wait for Soviet vehicles to be built... *looks at forg*

[Pushwall]

And here it is. I may add rails to most of the new catwalk as it just looks odd being completely unguarded, maybe some props too.

And here's the external balconies for the ladders, which are barely big enough to accommodate the door, ladder and player. These things already jut out quite a bit, and a fire escape would have to be twice as big at a minimum, and even bigger if it were to be lag-friendly!

Since this is using the same door zone as the Airfield roof, you can actually stand pretty close to the door and not trigger it.

I may reduce the possibility of accidental triggering even further though by moving the upper floor PCTs/spawn points one metre closer to the MCT.

[Pushwall]

Anyway, closed the poll as it's pretty cut and dry that we shouldn't remove rooftop access and the general consensus in the discussion is a call for better rooftop access for defenders - which I've been working on

Seems to be a fair bit of support for just outright removing rooftop flares too, how does everyone feel about that again? Preventing them may not be "required" anymore with all the extra roof access, but then again, this extra roof access is all available to spies too since currently the new doors use the same lock as the basement ones. Setting up a new series of locks is a pain (but doable) and barring spies from these doors would also prevent them from teamworking with a Tanya/Thief to let them break into a building from above, which is just more opportunities for the spy to do something in a non-nuke map being taken away from him.

[Killing_You]

I think we should see how these team locked doors work out first and then go from there. Who knows? They might solve roof flares, they might not.

[OrangeP47]

18 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

I think we should see how these team locked doors work out first and then go from there. Who knows? They might solve roof flares, they might not.

Yeah, I second this opinion.

[Pushwall]

Got around to doing something for the Construction Yard going off of @Killing_You's suggestion.

The old elevator up to this floor has been axed in favour of clones of the new PP elevator with rails, which should be more lag-friendly.

And of course there's a second one that leads to the roof.

In addition, these ramps have been added to the rooftop to allow better access to the top of the main door, which was previously one of the most campable areas since the only way up there was one ladder (and the alternative method of jumping from the lower part of the roof onto said ladder is difficult to pull off with lag and still leaves you having to climb the same ladder) and its shape made it very easy to stay covered from defenders unless they outnumbered and surrounded you and could get up to your height without dying.

The elevators are team-locked, and that goes for both of them, not just the one connecting to the rooftop, so in addition to preventing enemies from using the rooftop hatch to get inside by themselves, it also allows the previously useless section of the CY to serve as a hideout for people who want to avoid being killwhored, as there's not much that can hit them up there.

[Raptor29aa]

I think the problem for the War Factory (which was the most mentioned) and roof top camping of kov on the CY have been solved. The main issue was the spy/kov/flamethrower/single-slug  headshot while ladder climbing since the height gave time to the attacker to line up a good shot. 

I agree with the opinion that we should wait on creating a no flare zone on the roof tops. For two reasons.

A). A roof top flare doesn’t allow an attacker a vehicle. Or team of vehicles.

B) the new access should allow the defender a faster route to a purchase terminal.

Lastly, it does open up the concern about tanya/spy teams. Yet I’ve seen how tanya/ spy teams cause the allied team two less players and sometimes half their defenses.

[ChopBam]

3 hours ago, Raptor29aa said:

tanya/spy teams

Mines are usually a good first defense. Props to them if they can blow up mines AND get a Tanya/spy to coordinate their way up there.

[Einstein]

Oh heck, one of my ideas actually got used

Those building edits look really good pushwall, maybe that will have a good effect on gameplay.

And yeah, I agree too about waiting a bit for the rooftop flare decision.