Games Kaiju CYOR Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Retaliation]

5 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

My initial instinct was to claim item usage, but I didn't know what to claim and I was afraid of being instantly outed via item thief.

That and I was prepared for a tracker to follow me to either one target or the other, but not both.

Good point, I never considered you'd have to worry about an item thief. It probably didn't make a difference though, I was pretty keyed to interpret any double track as scum using their role action and the NK. Town got very lucky that I was disciplined enough to resist murdering Orange D1, but trigger happy enough to go with my gut when it came to you.

It's kind of funny. I didn't really want to be a dayvig because I felt the hexapod is kind of weak compared to most kaiju. Yet here we are.

[Sunflower]

I thought it was pretty fun from a whodunnit perspective. Everything was so mysterious that even though it seemed like the answer was obvious, I kept rethinking and wondering if something crazy was going on. Tho it was too bad about all the unlucky fails that kept me from monkeying around like I'd hoped.

[Killing_You]

Really, the more I look at it, the more it seems FRAYDO was tailor made to stop specifically me.

[Shade939]

20 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

Cat5's scatter thing didn't fit in the game. It blured the lines between item/action/passive, barely interacted with the fun  item moving game Jeod and Orange had going on, and should not have been a free action like pass. Maybe he should have started with a certain amount of the dust or had to spend a phase making more. He was also a scum mason, but I don't think that phases us anymore .

Otherwise I think it's the best mafia game I've played in awhile. Sure @Killing_Yougot dunked on again, but he also reacted pretty poorly to it as well. Not that anyone other than iLTS or me seemed to have noticed that lol.

I'm pretty sure everyone else was taking crazy pills.

That's also what made the ability so powerful though, and even if someone investigated him they couldn't immediately call him out for it.

[Shade939]

5 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

Really, the more I look at it, the more it seems FRAYDO was tailor made to stop specifically me.

Because his one-shot would result in him killing both of you?

[Killing_You]

Just now, Shade939 said:

Because his one-shot would result in him killing both of you?

That, the tracking, and the fact that FRAYDO is generally good at sniffing out scum, and my scumtells in particular.

[Retaliation]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

That's also what made the ability so powerful though, and even if someone investigated him they couldn't immediately call him out for it.

It meant his role was completely opaque and incentivized sitting back and doing nothing as town tore itself apart.

It's fine (and good) if town is unable to confirm he's scum using the tools we had available. The problem is that ability breaks the expectations of what passives/actives/items do in such a way that it "confirms" him as town instead.

[Shade939]

19 minutes ago, Sunflower said:

I thought it was pretty fun from a whodunnit perspective. Everything was so mysterious that even though it seemed like the answer was obvious, I kept rethinking and wondering if something crazy was going on. Tho it was too bad about all the unlucky fails that kept me from monkeying around like I'd hoped.

One of the main benefits of giving vague details about abilities.

10 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

That, the tracking, and the fact that FRAYDO is generally good at sniffing out scum, and my scumtells in particular.

Other than suggesting a ninja role, not much I could do about that. 

[Shade939]

13 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

It meant his role was completely opaque and incentivized sitting back and doing nothing as town tore itself apart.

It's fine (and good) if town is unable to confirm he's scum using the tools we had available. The problem is that ability breaks the expectations of what passives/actives/items do in such a way that it "confirms" him as town instead.

Primarily, I probably would have let Sunflower take an item despite being roleblocked, but even as it was Category 5 was up for a lynch nearly every day, only losing out to a more suspicious Town player.

[Killing_You]

4 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

One of the main benefits of giving vague details about abilities.

Other than suggesting a ninja role, not much I could do about that. 

Hey, I'm not complaining :P 

[Retaliation]

2 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

Primarily, I probably would have let Sunflower take an item despite being roleblocked, but even as it was Category 5 was up for a lynch nearly every day, only losing out to a more suspicious Town player.

Yeah, I think giving his roleblock a lower priority than the targeted roleblocks would have been enough. 

[Retaliation]

On the subject of C&C style mafia, I kind of want to try a Great Rio Insurrection themed one where we can pick and choose TS and TW units...

[iLikeToSnipe]

3 hours ago, Jeod said:

I think you're sort of right--perhaps we've had a few too many "themed" CYORs lately. My CYOR V was meant to get away from all that.

I think a themed CYOR is much harder to balance and play. Take KY's flavor as mechagodzilla, it's an anti-Kaiju mech. The rest of us are Kaiju. There's going to be some kind of bias against him in the first place if he does a reveal versus someone like Louis revealing their character.

In an "anything goes" CYOR you have none of that and there's far more room for creativity. I'm guilty of this myself, but CYOR role abilities should also try to be more creative than just a reflavored role block (I think Cat5's role block item is very creative btw). I remember on a mafia forum over a decade ago I picked "co-mod" for my role and had a lot of fun with the unique goals and abilities I had. Even after all this time I still remember it. I don't remember the random CYORs where I get a one use day vig because I picked a superhero.

However, running those kinds of CYORs requires more players to signup than we've had in the typical CYOR or mafia game.

[OrangeP47]

23 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

I think a themed CYOR is much harder to balance and play. Take KY's flavor as mechagodzilla, it's an anti-Kaiju mech. The rest of us are Kaiju. There's going to be some kind of bias against him in the first place if he does a reveal versus someone like Louis revealing their character.

In an "anything goes" CYOR you have none of that and there's far more room for creativity. I'm guilty of this myself, but CYOR role abilities should also try to be more creative than just a reflavored role block (I think Cat5's role block item is very creative btw). I remember on a mafia forum over a decade ago I picked "co-mod" for my role and had a lot of fun with the unique goals and abilities I had. Even after all this time I still remember it. I don't remember the random CYORs where I get a one use day vig because I picked a superhero.

However, running those kinds of CYORs requires more players to signup than we've had in the typical CYOR or mafia game.

No one was biased against me claiming Striker Eureka, though I was prepared for it

[Retaliation]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

No one was biased against me claiming Striker Eureka, though I was prepared for it

I think it passed through my mind briefly that the strange device might be yours.

In general I have a policy against judging a player's alignment based on their role flavor though. There's no way to tell if that's ever something the GM takes into account and it ruins the game for yourself if you're right that they did.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

4 hours ago, OrangeP47 said:

I told you guys it was Cat 5.

And I knew you were TP because of KY's rolecop report, though I didn't dare go after you because I'd get attacked for hunting a TP instead of a mafia.

4 hours ago, Shade939 said:

So in terms of balance, what sort of things did you like and dislike?

I think this game was won or lost on Night 1. Scum could very easily cause all sorts of confusion if they get through N1 without being caught, but they can also be totally screwed. I knew this game was lost the moment KY was shot.

Also, super pissed that Orange can win after he died. The whole reason I killed him was to prevent him from winning. Easiest win ever. Don't allow a player to get to the point where he can gloat that he's won before it's actually over.

Edited August 1, 2020 by Category 5 Hurricane

[Louis]

I know I need to get better does anyone have some pointers, Cat5 totally threw me off

[Shade939]

11 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

And I knew you were TP because of KY's rolecop report, though I didn't dare pursuit you because I'd get attacked for hunting a TP instead of a mafia.

I think this game was won or lost on Night 1. Scum could very easily cause all sorts of confusion if they get through N1 without being caught, but they can also be totally screwed. I knew this game was lost the moment KY was shot.

Also, super pissed that Orange can win after he died. Easiest win ever.

And Orange has to survive long enough for the device to charge up, use a night action to activate it, and hope that it lands on a player who he can actually kill with it.

Also, I don't think anyone was seriously scum hunting until day three, Louis grabbed the device twice giving it an entire two phases worth of charge, no one role blocked him the night he was going to activate the device, and Sunflower was dead so she couldn't try to do anything with the bomb, and iLTS has lost his BP, Jeod didn't get passed the bomb either for his day BP. Not to mention, he wasn't day killed by Retaliation or blocked by KY before he could activate his shield to defend himself. Oh yeah, and he didn't get NK'd before he could use the proper night action either.

There was a good list of things that could have gone wrong for him.

[Retaliation]

It's surprisingly hard to scum hunt when no one is dying and the final scum has a busy life.

I will admit to not putting much effort into figuring out the third party gimmick because I wanted to see what would happen 

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

It's surprisingly hard to scum hunt when no one is dying and the final scum has a busy life.

I will admit to not putting much effort into figuring out the third party gimmick because I wanted to see what would happen 

I don't think anyone thought they'd have to actually scum hunt after how easily KY was caught.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

9 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

And Orange has to survive long enough for the device to charge up, use a night action to activate it, and hope that it lands on a player who he can actually kill with it.

Also, I don't think anyone was seriously scum hunting until day three, Louis grabbed the device twice giving it an entire two phases worth of charge, no one role blocked him the night he was going to activate the device, and Sunflower was dead so she couldn't try to do anything with the bomb, and iLTS has lost his BP, Jeod didn't get passed the bomb either for his day BP. Not to mention, he wasn't day killed by Retaliation or blocked by KY before he could activate his shield to defend himself. Oh yeah, and he didn't get NK'd before he could use the proper night action either.

There was a good list of things that could have gone wrong for him.

That's all well and good, but I'm saying that a player should never get to the point where he can gloat that he has won before the game is over. After Orange did his day action, was there anything that could have stopped him?

[Shade939]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

That's all well and good, but I'm saying that a player should never get to the point where he can gloat that he has won before the game is over. After Orange did his day action, was there anything that could have stopped him?

Yes, because he had to use a night action to win.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

So FRAYDO needed to roleblock him instead of me?

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

So FRAYDO needed to roleblock him instead of me?

At this point in the game, yes.

FRAYDO's role block was the only ability that could prevent him from activating the bomb. But instead he wanted to let Orange kill a player to help with scum hunting.

If the role block had happened, Jeod would have wound up with the bomb and he had day BP so Orange would lose with the bomb exploding and killing no one if he could activate it in a later night.

[Retaliation]

It's very hard to not change to font to green now.

Orange had a pretty lucky game where everything that could go right for him, did go right. 

8 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

I don't think anyone thought they'd have to actually scum hunt after how easily KY was caught.

Hey, I was saving up my scum hunting energy so that I could build that case on Cat5! It's not my fault that everyone else decided the only logical lynch was the vote manipulator who claimed to have been shot N1 with KY tracked to him!

[Category 5 Hurricane]

It really is quite unbelievable to me that I was able to convince people off of me. I mean, I'm not going to fault them for it, I think I was putting up plausible arguments, especially for Sunflower, but there is no way I should have had a chance to survive today.

[Retaliation]

1 minute ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

It really is quite unbelievable to me that I was able to convince people off of me. I mean, I'm not going to fault them for it, I think I was putting up plausible arguments, especially for Sunflower, but there is no way I should have had a chance to survive today.

I think everyone else was huffing a bit too much of that dust you were scattering around.

[Category 5 Hurricane]

6 minutes ago, Shade939 said:

At this point in the game, yes.

FRAYDO's role block was the only ability that could prevent him from activating the bomb. But instead he wanted to let Orange kill a player to help with scum hunting.

If the role block had happened, Jeod would have wound up with the bomb and he had day BP so Orange would lose with the bomb exploding and killing no one if he could activate it in a later night.

Ok, fair enough then. FRAYDO, you failed me! I did my part to prevent him from winning. Louis' death is on your hands! (And for that matter, town/TP are the only people who killed town this entire game.)

[Shade939]

3 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

I think everyone else was huffing a bit too much of that dust you were scattering around.

To be fair, I think I managed to make every role in game somewhat suspicious with the exception of FRAYDO.

[Retaliation]

1 minute ago, Shade939 said:

To be fair, I think I managed to make every role in game somewhat suspicious with the exception of FRAYDO.

How dare you suggest there is anything untoward about my body snatching.