Games [GAME OVER] CYOR VI

[ChopBam]

Glad my intuition on Louis was correct. If shade really has a heart you can stab, he is probably who he says he is.

[ChopBam]

Why did it fall to you, @Killing_You?

[Category5]

I think Louis has a teammate.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I think Louis has a teammate.

With this (apparently) configuration I wouldn't be surprised if there was a team of TP.

[OrangeP47]

4 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

With this (apparently) configuration I wouldn't be surprised if there was a team of TP.

What do we think of the interaction between Louis and ILTS? Though it could be Shade, but he's already under our thumb.  I actually don't think it'd be KY, despite the dragonball angle.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Here is one thought. IF there's a mafia team (which is still a sure bet and there's likely just two), their win condition most likely means they have to take out town AND third party. I'm neutral and have a win condition to survive until the game ends, so I know mafia doesn't need to eliminate neutrals to win. But a living TP towards the end probably counts against a win condition to exceed the number of town players.

So, mafia would win when they meet or exceed the remaining town + TP. If I remember correctly, that's how Endgame worked. The game went on when I was Loki even though mafia would have outnumbered town. So yeah, taking out TP Louis was beneficial to town (I assumed she was going to be mafia after that one comment) it was also beneficial to mafia.

At this point, I would be honest if I was actually TP and not neutral because you can't afford to lynch either alignment right now. If you go after a neutral, you forfeit a chance to get mafia. If you go after a TP, you eliminate a potential threat to town (if it is a TP with anti-town goals) and bring mafia one kill closer to winning.

So, have it your way. Scum hunt or go after neutrals/TP and lose. My offer still stands to actively help in scum hunting, but it's going to require protection that I believe is guaranteed. Until then, I'm only providing minor help if any.

[Killing_You]

6 hours ago, ChopBam said:

Why did it fall to you, @Killing_You?

I don't know. My best guess would be due to the fact that I voted him up first and/or had my vote on him the longest.

 

[Category5]

I'm conflicted. I think Louis has a teammate and the most obvious way to advance would be trying to establish who that is. Going after a Third Party at this point though is probably counter productive. At the same time, I think my suspects for Mafia are pretty much the same ones as Third Party, unless I decide that Mafia are hiding amongst the quiet ones.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I'm conflicted. I think Louis has a teammate and the most obvious way to advance would be trying to establish who that is. Going after a Third Party at this point though is probably counter productive. At the same time, I think my suspects for Mafia are pretty much the same ones as Third Party, unless I decide that Mafia are hiding amongst the quiet ones.

Part of what compels me to sus on ILTS so much is the previous Loki gambit, but another part of it is what if this isn't a Loki gambit, but a different gambit designed to take advantage of the fact that we're all aware of the Loki gambit.  Instead of being TP pretending to be neutral he's mafia pretending to be TP pretending to be neutral.

[iLikeToSnipe]

2 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Part of what compels me to sus on ILTS so much is the previous Loki gambit, but another part of it is what if this isn't a Loki gambit, but a different gambit designed to take advantage of the fact that we're all aware of the Loki gambit.  Instead of being TP pretending to be neutral he's mafia pretending to be TP pretending to be neutral.

[OrangeP47]

Just now, iLikeToSnipe said:

You brought this on yourself.

[iLikeToSnipe]

3 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

Part of what compels me to sus on ILTS so much is the previous Loki gambit, but another part of it is what if this isn't a Loki gambit, but a different gambit designed to take advantage of the fact that we're all aware of the Loki gambit.  Instead of being TP pretending to be neutral he's mafia pretending to be TP pretending to be neutral.

I mean, if you want to get into meta/WIFOM arguments like that, why would I do that as mafia? There would be ample opportunities for me to blend in as town. However, that's bad for me as a neutral that needs to survive. If I pretend to be town and mafia believe it, that makes me an NK target.

In other words, I have every reason to claim neutral if I really am neutral or if I'm TP pretending to be neutral. I would only claim town if I was town or mafia. I'm only on your list to lynch right now because I've chosen to act this way. This isn't a case of "subverting expectations". Claiming mafia and saying "lynch me!" as mafia would be totally against my meta and "subverting expectations". It'd also be completely idiotic.

[OrangeP47]

2 minutes ago, iLikeToSnipe said:

I mean, if you want to get into meta/WIFOM arguments like that, why would I do that as mafia? There would be ample opportunities for me to blend in as town. However, that's bad for me as a neutral that needs to survive. If I pretend to be town and mafia believe it, that makes me an NK target.

In other words, I have every reason to claim neutral if I really am neutral or if I'm TP pretending to be neutral. I would only claim town if I was town or mafia. I'm only on your list to lynch right now because I've chosen to act this way. This isn't a case of "subverting expectations". Claiming mafia and saying "lynch me!" as mafia would be totally against my meta and "subverting expectations". It'd also be completely idiotic.

You've successfully gotten people off your case by before by playing the "strong neutral" card is the thing, it's within your meta.  Your goal seems to be to put yourself above reproach.

[Category5]

Is there any downside to claiming neutral? Town could claim neutral so that mafia don't kill them.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

You've successfully gotten people off your case by before by playing the "strong neutral" card is the thing, it's within your meta.  Your goal seems to be to put yourself above reproach.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain while I do who knows what shady shit!"

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain while I do who knows what shady shit!"

Furthermore, there's no evidence of your claims other than what you say, so like... yeah...

[Category5]

See, one of the things I haven't mentioned before is that the idea that you can sabotage after death suggests that you have to be on a team. What point is there in a neutral trying to wreck people when they've already lost the game? 

[OrangeP47]

Like, I'm sorry, but it also comes down to the fact that it's YOU ILTS.  If anyone is up to something with a role like that claim, it's you.  Or me, or Shade, but definitely you.  If it was like KY or Cat 5 I'd believe the claim, but with you, I just can't.

[Killing_You]

I can't help but be reminded of Nintendo Mafia. He claimed Neutral despite having some questionable (and possibly damaging) actions, yet he was actually Mafia. I've noticed bits of that peeking through here, but I don't really feeling like pressing a case without confirming Shade. 

[Category5]

And now I'm sitting here trying to figure out if you were on the same team as Louis. If you are, we should leave you alone. If you aren't, we should lynch you.

[OrangeP47]

1 minute ago, OrangeP47 said:

Like, I'm sorry, but it also comes down to the fact that it's YOU ILTS.  If anyone is up to something with a role like that claim, it's you.  Or me, or Shade, but definitely you.  If it was like KY or Cat 5 I'd believe the claim, but with you, I just can't.

If you really are neutral it's the boy who cried wolf. 

[Retaliation]

3 minutes ago, Killing_You said:

I can't help but be reminded of Nintendo Mafia. He claimed Neutral despite having some questionable (and possibly damaging) actions, yet he was actually Mafia. I've noticed bits of that peeking through here, but I don't really feeling like pressing a case without confirming Shade. 

I'm reminded of Kaiju mafia where everyone started freaking out about the possibly of iLTS being scum on the last day.

What did he do to you guys?

[iLikeToSnipe]

4 minutes ago, Category 5 Hurricane said:

See, one of the things I haven't mentioned before is that the idea that you can sabotage after death suggests that you have to be on a team. What point is there in a neutral trying to wreck people when they've already lost the game? 

Because it's something I requested so I could test it out? Just to rephrase what I said before, the standard way a neutral survivor is setup gives them a strong incentive to just be another member of the town. What I requested shouldn't do that. Yeah, there's still a little more incentive to help town than to just be neutral (town controls the lynch). But it's not "help town as much as you can and just hide behind people so you don't die". Anyone with a standard kill action can just kill me, I'm not going to deny that. But it does carry the "unprovable until it happens" risk that I will cripple you and/or your faction for the rest of the game.

You may not see the point in that, but I do. So we can agree to disagree, and you are free to waste a lynch on me and see just what I can do in retaliation. The very fact that you're hesitant to do so proves my point about it.

[Category5]

Your threats are actually having the opposite effect on me. I see what you are doing as just holding a gun to our heads and making demands, and I don't like it when people pull that bullshit.

[iLikeToSnipe]

4 minutes ago, Retaliation said:

I'm reminded of Kaiju mafia where everyone started freaking out about the possibly of iLTS being scum on the last day.

What did he do to you guys?

Fool them on many gambits (and fool mafia on gambits as town). Now that I think of it, am I the only one who has won a game as a cult leader before?

[Category5]

I am more than willing to take any post-death punishment you might do.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

Your threats are actually having the opposite effect on me. I see what you are doing as just holding a gun to our heads and making demands, and I don't like it when people pull that bullshit.

Then start a lynch on me and learn your lesson about game theory/mutually assured destruction. I do have a gun, it is not enough to stop either town or mafia, but it's enough to seriously hurt one of them.

[iLikeToSnipe]

Just now, Category 5 Hurricane said:

I am more than willing to take any post-death punishment you might do.

But would somebody else on your team be? I have a few good targets I hit if town lynched me, you may or may not be on that list.

[Category5]

I think you are the one who needs the lesson. If you come here with MAD as your game, what do you think the results for you personally would be?

[iLikeToSnipe]

11 minutes ago, OrangeP47 said:

If you really are neutral it's the boy who cried wolf. 

I have made more claims to be town or TP (when I'm not) than neutral I believe. I do a lot of fake claims and gambits, but I do that as every alignment. Town, mafia, neutral, or TP.